[N4n0]Buss Ban

[Xier0]

http://www.sythe.org/denied-suggestions/1768073-pm-harassing-someone-elses-customers.html

http://www.sythe.org/dispute-forum-archive/1801643-serious-ban-staff-im-rarely-sarcastic.html

http://www.sythe.org/dispute-forum-archive/1801646-n4n0-v2.html

http://www.sythe.org/dispute-forum-...ary-firez-bus369-appealing-misplaced-ban.html

I'm not quite understanding why Bus's ban wasn't overturned, and why n4n0 would continue to close his appeals. This seems to be a pattern...

You're right. It's not illegal. If it was, you'd be permanently banned.

By this logic, why is he banned AT ALL?

 

[JSand]

I vaguely remember a report a scammer thread with basically this same exact thing where a person was accusing a member of stealing customers through PM's and it was decided that it's the "cost of doing business" since it was through PM's and that it's the decision of the person conducting the trade to choose whom they want to conduct the trade with.....

Now Bus gets banned, doesn't make any sense. There's no uniformity and people get banned for breaking a rule that isn't a rule? Poaching isn't against the rules.


edit: It's actually a denied suggestion: http://www.sythe.org/denied-suggestions/1768073-pm-harassing-someone-elses-customers-2.html


Heres a few excerpts from Staff

Free market. Shit happens, be on the ball Not really harrassment - if it's actual harrassment then report it for flaming.

This was really annoying for me when I was in the market, but it is an open market and while mass advertising via the PM system would be considered spam if the posts are reported, I don't see making it a rule not to PM "other peoples customers" as everyone has the ability to decide who they want to buy from or sell to. Competition never hurts, it helps people decide whether or not they want to continue buying from someone or look elsewhere.

 

[Syed]

because n4n0 does what he wants and the staff will support him no matter what, when will you guys learn this jesus christ

stop with these threads already, n4n0 will do what he wants and fuck everybody else, this is how the site works now

 

We're setting the standards too high for a blackmarket.

 

[Xier0]

because n4n0 does what he wants and the staff will support him no matter what, when will you guys learn this jesus christ

stop with these threads already, n4n0 will do what he wants and fuck everybody else, this is how the site works now

The non tl;dr version: http://www.sythe.org/feedback/1721805-richard-staff-my-thoughts-my-perspective.html

 

[n4n0]

A) I had no part in that discussion about PM harassing customers, so that has absolutely nothing to do with me.
B) I gave him a 3 day ban for repeated offenses, which I would have done to anyone else. You are blowing this way out of proportion.

 

[Tyler]

If its not against sythe rules how was it "repeated offences"

Especially when on the reports I viewed you didn't show proof of giving him a warning

 

I will answer your question of:
"By this logic, why is he banned AT ALL?"

The use of Sythe is a privilege. Sythe has its own set of rules that do not constitute into law, but only on Sythe grounds. In order for something to be illegal it would have to be forbidden by law. If one were to complete illegal acts on Sythe, then Sythe would get in trouble for allowing illegal activities. Since Bus had violated Sythe's rules, he has received a temporarily ban. If he were to commit an illegal act, Sythe would be forced to permanently ban that user.

Bus's argument is that it is not stated within the rules of Sythe. Although, from what the mods are saying he had been warned before not to do it. If he ignores the warnings, he is at fault for continuing to break the rules. I don't believe mods make up the rules, although they do what is best for the community. Bus does not understand the difference between a free market and Poaching. He puts the two together when they are completely different.

 

[Xier0]

B) I gave him a 3 day ban for repeated offenses, which I would have done to anyone else. You are blowing this way out of proportion.

What offence(s)? We already established here that Bus has no offences against him. You cannot ban him for it. It is power abuse to ban him for that, and it is blatant abuse and outright pathetic to deny his appeals 3 times. If you could ban him for that, then it would have not been explicitly noted that that is allowable.

 

[Dil]

Thanks for making this thread before I had to waste my time and make it.

The whole ban is unbelievable.

 

[nodnarbusn]

Classic double standard. Looking forward to seeing how this pans out.

As it sits now I agree its total BULLSHIT.

 

[Extremely Rare]

I agree this all is a bit ridiculous, but hey...things have been as of late.

 

I don't understand most of you guys. If you worked at Target, would you go to Wal-Mart to advertise your goods? No. I see this as the same concept and believe the ban was fair.

 

[Xier0]

I don't understand most of you guys. If you worked at Target, would you go to Wal-Mart to advertise your goods? No. I see this as the same concept and believe the ban was fair.

He didn't post on his competitor's threads, once again, it's already been established that PMing customers is allowable, and not bannable. The problem is, he was banned for it, then denied 3 appeals by n4n0 when Bus rightfully pointed out his ban was in error. This isn't the first time that n4n0 has forced his opinion over the rules (hattez's was given an "unpardonable ban" by n4n0 for a 1 month ban offence, and had his pardons locked and archived even when multiple mods already offered their support, n4n0 gave his girlfriend 4 fun ranks and a name change, when name changes are reserved for staff only).

Admins don't just have to follow the rules- they are the people who are most responsible for upholding them.

 

[JSand]

A) I had no part in that discussion about PM harassing customers, so that has absolutely nothing to do with me.
B) I gave him a 3 day ban for repeated offenses, which I would have done to anyone else. You are blowing this way out of proportion.

So because you had no input in the discussion means that the staffs decision means nothing?

What about some uniformity?!? Staff decided the suggestion held no merit so declined making it a rule but you still enforced it.... Clearly abusing your power.

If staff came to the decision to decline making a rule, you shouldn't be enforcing it because you "didn't get to discuss it", you should bring up the subject to staff on your own and then make it a rule and THEN enforce it, not before!

 

[Naxious]

This was an unfair ban no doubt. And I have to agree with Ghast here, we are setting stands too high for a black market.

 

I don't even like Bus and I can see this ban wasn't warranted. As others have shown, there are several staff members who consider PMing others' customers to be fair game. Yet in one of Bus's disputes, n4n0 mentioned that he had been warned against doing this in they past.

So there seems to be some confusion amongst staff about whether or not this should be allowed. Either a rule needs to be added explicitly stating this, or the whole thing should be forgotten. Regardless of that decision, Bus should be unbanned as this (potential) rule wasn't even in place when he committed the "offence".

 

Cop - stop breathing
dude - breathes
cop - gg m8 ur under arrest
dude - wtf thats not illegal
cop - ye but i warned you so now that means ur punished gg fgt
dude - fml rip
dudette - who gon take care this lil nigga
dude - ayy yolanda i aint finna fuck wit yo rachet ass rn
cop - excuse m...
dude - ayy get yo cracka ass up outta hurr we talmbout some real shit rn mayne real talk monica
dudette - see he always trippin
dude - maynee naw fuk dis ima go get me some butt pussy inna brig

 

[runescapelover516]

Depends on what kind of pms he sent if there were trying to discredit the other seller thats no benuo. But if he was just saying he can do it cheaper then... that should be allowed

 

[RSGoldstop]

If directly specifying I can beat "x"'s rate, that should be consider customer poaching...He just looks on people who posts on gold selling threads and SPECIFICALLY says I'll beat (Thread owner)'s prices. This means he OBVIOUSLY sent the PM as a result of the post on a thread, which would be equivalent to posting ON a thread.

Like I said earlier, I don't find a problem with people PMING my customers that they will beat COMPETITOR pricing - that's FAIR and just business. But when you directly target a user you have to ask yourself the question: "how did the PM sender know who to target?" I'm not the only IKOV seller on this forum. Moes, Dave, R2P, and Soul Rich all sell gold. Why did he have to specifically name me in all his PM's? Why were his PMs all directed to my customers?

Also, if I were able to PM anyone that posts on a low repped users thread saying I'll beat the lower rep user, no buyer would reasonably choose me over the low repped seller. After all, I have more vouches, higher donations, and I am offering a lower price. PM's that specifically target a seller SUPPRESSES competition in favor of high repped users. This in turns creates a monopoly as smaller users are forced out of the market.

The rule that I propose is that direct PM marketing should be allowed - but only after the intended receiver has shown interest in buying or selling gold (this is to avoid spammers pm'ing member lists, if people spam, they will still get infractions+bans) No direct competitor names should be included in the message - this way it's fair for everyone.

If Bus's ban is overturned and it is determined that direct PM's with competitor naming is allowed, trust me - I would PM every last one of the customers Bus has and offer a rate that he cannot beat and in turn, every one of his customers would choose me over him.