Messaging system (not a shoutbox[?])

[MohtasaUnique]

It's come to my attention that users find it hard to remember to be positive of who they're trading with on sythe.org, and impostors are having a heyday with pretending to be legitimate sythe.org traders. As such, I suggest an integrated personal messaging system that works similarly to MSN, but apart from the PM feature. I suggest a system hosted on a sythe page where your messaging account IS your sythe.org account, and therefore, there is no way to impersonate another user unless you are physically logged onto their sythe.org account.

The system should have features similar to skype and MSN such as:

• Contact management (add, block, grouping, etc.)
• Tabbed conversation windows and auto-refreshing/real-time updates (setting it apart from the private messaging system and giving it much more effectiveness and speed when conducting trades).
• Ability to see whether a user is online or offline their sythe.org account, and likewise appear online or offline to certain users​

It should also have features that sets it apart from MSN:

• Requiring access to your sythe.org account in order to access your messenger account.
• There should be complete-conversation-screenshot features for easy scam reporting in such an unfortunate event.
• Chat logs should have exclusive access granted to staff (perhaps sectionals+, or only global+ only) so that it makes it possible for staff to track illicit activity.​

That's my idea, if you believe it's too similar to a shoutbox (which is featured in the DNS list), feel free to lock this. If you believe it's too similar to the private message system and therefore is utterly redundant and useless, then have your say, but I would disagree with that if all of the features outlined were integrated into the messaging system..

 

[Sypherz]

I think that it's a fantastic idea. We could cut a very, very large chunk of scams out potentially.

 

[blazee]

I can only see one thing wrong with this. If a moderation group can see ALL chat logs, personal information could be seen/revealed. Even if only admins+ could read all the chat logs I'd still think it's invasion of privacy. You could have a MSN and a Sythe Messaging System just for trading but that'll be inconvenient. The only solution I can think of is too be able to "Chat" with someone or "Trade" with someone. The "Trade" conversation is logged and would be able to be viewed by mod+.

Great suggestion if it could be implemented.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

With the recent scamming by Pen, I see the validity of your concern.

Revoking the suggestion for staff to have access chat logs.

EDIT: how about an input of some sort for sensitive information that shows as asterisks in the chat logs?

 

[Alex_J_Leon]

I cannot imagine how much stress that would cause on these servers... I mean there isn't even search.php anymore

Screenshot feature seems like it would be great, but perhaps redundant with the next feature you list. Since the chat log system will log the messages, one could just cite the time of the scam. Yes, a screenshot could be taken... but it would be better to verify with the chatlogs either way. As far as coding goes for this... sounds rough. With coding comes exploits...

I don't think it'll be implemented, mainly for the code implementation...

Though, technically a shoutbox could be used and altered to work this way.

Edit: Revoked that part... <.>. My typing is now null =p.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

I don't believe the search was removed due to the stress on the server, nor do I believe this feature would weigh any more heavily on the server than the Private Message system does. If the "refreshing" of the chat system is synchronized site-wide instead of triggered by the sending of an individual message across this new system, it would cut back on potential bandwidth usage on an astronomical scale, or so I'd conclude if logic has any say in how these things work... I don't pretend to know a lot about the subject

 

There's a mod I know of for vB4 that uses ajax to implement a facebook-style chat system. This is hugely stressful on servers though and really isn't designed to be used on forums of this size.

 

[Grave]

There's a mod I know of for vB4 that uses ajax to implement a facebook-style chat system. This is hugely stressful on servers though and really isn't designed to be used on forums of this size.

Right, I saw it earlier and was going to suggest it, but it's way too stressful on a server. There would have to be a separate server for the system, and I would be interested in funding it if the administrators decide this is the only downfall in plans of adding a decent chat system.

 

Right, I saw it earlier and was going to suggest it, but it's way too stressful on a server. There would have to be a separate server for the system, and I would be interested in funding it if the administrators decide this is the only downfall in plans of adding a decent chat system.

I'm sure you have Sythe's contact information - you might wanna pitch the idea to him, I'm sure he'd be very interested in that idea.

 

[Silent Fang]

will this be available on mobile though? because thats one think im concerned about, i support this idea but im on my ipad most of the time when im on sythe. So i'd want it to be ipad compatible without sythe having to make an app.

 

[x339]

100% support. I have been thinking about something like this for a long time. MSN is just far to unreliable for trading on a black market this large. Perhaps another easier option would be simply getting an IRC, and the only way to get access is to sign up and verify your sythe account with it. That might require less then creating a whole new messaging system to use.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

@Grave, that'd be an incredible contribution, and I know that it would greatly benefit the site.

 

[-Ryan]

I would definitely support this, it not only makes trading safer but it is also much easier to contact people.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

Grave, you should let me know when richard gets back to you

 

[n4n0]

Kudos to you for offering to host this, Grave. This would definitely be a nice feature to see if properly implemented and used. Would cut back on scams by imposters on an astronomical level.


To x339 - We had an IRC server/channel that required a key to access which was associated with your sythe account at one point. However, it went largely unused, and was a huge hassle, so Richard took it down. I don't see it ever coming back.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

Yeah, in regards to what you said n4n0: for this to even be worth attempting, it must be incredibly simple to use, efficient and intuitive. If it's built in and already available to those who are simply registered on the forum, that's when it'd fully live up to its potential.

 

[Magic Arrow]

I don't support this suggestion. It's actually quite useless, the only benefit I see is convenience for frequent Sythe users to chat (which IMO is what IRC is for - You can query there). I'll break down the rest of it.

The system should have features similar to skype and MSN such as:

&#8226; Contact management (add, block, grouping, etc.)

We can already block people and add buddies on this site. The only thing you're suggesting here is group conversations, which is not what Sythe is for.

&#8226; Tabbed conversation windows and auto-refreshing/real-time updates (setting it apart from the private messaging system and giving it much more effectiveness and speed when conducting trades).

Building a new system just to because people are too lazy to refresh? Who on earth can't wait an extra minute for a message?

&#8226; Ability to see whether a user is online or offline their sythe.org account, and likewise appear online or offline to certain users

We already have that in the little green circle next to users names, unless they're appearing offline, in which case they won't show up anyway.

It should also have features that sets it apart from MSN:

&#8226; Requiring access to your sythe.org account in order to access your messenger account.

Which is the same as the PM system. So again no benefit.

&#8226; There should be complete-conversation-screenshot features for easy scam reporting in such an unfortunate event.

Ultra cool idea. But seriously chances are if you've just been scammed, you're not going to be too lazy to take a couple of extra pictures to report it.

&#8226; Chat logs should have exclusive access granted to staff (perhaps sectionals+, or only global+ only) so that it makes it possible for staff to track illicit activity.

You crossed it out thankfully.

So basically, you're suggesting a new PM box that updates in real time with the ability to take screenshots of whole conversations. Is it really worth the hassle or server load? I don't think so. Will it prevent scams? I don't think at all. In fact, I think the only ones who will use it will be Sythe regulars. If a user is too naive to demand a PM (which offers the exact security this thing does), then chances are he won't use this box.

This idea reeks of idealism. To quote the sticky at the top of this forum.

Idealistic Suggestions:
Here are some examples:
A Sythe.org built in IM system
An anti-scam machine
Something which goes through posts deleting spam
The suggestions are idealistic because, as nice as they may well sound, they are impractical; they cannot be implemented easily. They would require an external modification to VBulletin or they would require an investment of time from Matthew/Sythe. Moreover, some suggestions are so idealistic that they couldn't even be implemented even if we did have the time!

Bolded the key part.

Sorry to be a party pooper. Just my opinion.

 

[Sypherz]

I'm not sure if you've noticed, Magic Arrow, but a large, large chunk of the scams on this site are due to impostors. Having a chat system which requires Sythe log-in details would completely cut out that threat.

People do not trade through out current PM system. And they won't. So if we can adapt then it would help a lot of people stay safe.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

I'll respond in order to your post segments since I'm on a macbook at work, and this computer is annoying to format bbcode quotes 'n shit with the mousepad.

The IRC is unofficial and is hardly ever used for trades because there is no accessible chatlogs, and it's easy to impersonate someone from sythe.org. Since the point of this suggestion is to provide a safer method for trades to be conducted than MSN, suggesting we just use IRC instead is counterintuitive.

Yes, we can block and befriend people, but what does this feature do? Hides posts, or adds a + next to their name. If Blocking and added were introduced into a built in IM system, it could instead function as MSN does, as to where people either can or cannot communicate with you over IM. If you're blocked, you obviously cannot communicate, and if you add someone as a friend, then they become easily accessible for contact.

It's not just that people have to refresh and often lose their momentum in a trade if it's held over PM, it's that PM screenshots are damn near impossible to make sense of when you're doing a scam report as a mod. The nested order of the quotes makes it really annoying to track who says what. Additionally, even though it adds a couple minutes to a trade, people want fast, smooth, streamlined communication when trading. Plus having to sort through an inbox where A high volume of different people are trying to communicate with you is very difficult. You cannot simply sit in a PM and keep refreshing because it doesn't update if someone sends you a new PM. You have to return to your inbox, find the PM, and open it anew, click reply, type out a reply, send, rinse and repeat. It cannot function like MSN because of this, especially if you're a market giant with hundreds of contacts vying for your attention.

Again, the feature extends into the suggested IM system where you can set "available, away, busy, or offline" to show up both on the forum, and on people's IM contact list built into sythe.

When I said you would require access in order to get to your IM profile as well, it was a reduncancy. Since it's hosted on sythe, of course you'd need to be signed on. I was driving home the fact that you NEED to be on an account, and therefore people know 100% who you are (unless you're hacked), and since the entire point of this suggestion is to virtually eliminate the risk of impersonators on 3rd party communication systems, I figured it was prudent to highlight this feature.

Why make it harder for people to screenshot long conversations? The complete-conversation-screenshot allows for very quick reporting abilities with minimal effort and faster potential response time by moderators.


My opinion on your opinion

 

It's useful in theory but the real question is who would code it...