[Pending] Make Sythe Great Again: Limit threadmaxxing

PijaVenosa · Jul 27, 2023

Problems

Too many threads: Currently there's a lot of traffic on the sections, it's impractical for consumers and surely hard for mods too manage.

Generic threads: Many businesses just try to offer every service by reselling with 0 added value.

High quality providers hidden: With low value threads taking so much space, quality providers have less real estate

Disincentive to specialize: Businesses suffer as well, especially considering businesses are often amateur entrepeneurs who need some guidance. Businesses should be encouraged to specialize in a niche, not to spread out and try to be everything.

Cause

Bumping: The current bumping rule limits the extent of bumping to 1 per 4 hours. But by allowing 1 bump per thread, this incentivizes the creation of multiple threads, the more thread a business has, the more visibility, the meta is thus to make one thread per section and max out exposure.

Solution

Users get 1 bump every 4 hours. Not 1 bump per thread. If a user wishes too, they may have 2 threads and distribute their bumps so that each thread gets a bump every 8 hours, or 3 threads bumped every 12 hours, and so on.

Bump frequency may be adjusted to account for the reduced bumprate, but it's probably not necessary.

If you'd like to see a better Sythe, please show your support by posting or reacting. If not, let me know why you'd be against the idea.

Regards, Pija

PijaVenosa · Jul 27, 2023

As a complement, a more agile solution which requires less bureoucratic approval and can be implemented faster would be for a mod to pm notable threadmaxxers and politely ask them to cut down and focus on a single prouct.

Some criteria to define a threadmaxxer:

- Makes a thread in every section
- Every thread offers every possible service for that section
- Consistently bumps every 4 hours
- Is known to outsource fullfilment
- Has a low amount of sales per thread

Dbuffed · Jul 27, 2023

No support, sorry.

MyPvM · Jul 27, 2023

I do not support.
We, for example, offer pretty much everything besides some very very niche things. Why should we limit ourselves to one thing only?
Of course there are some that outsource, but its still legitimate business at the end of the day - as long as the client is informed.

Also limiting = less sales = less motivation to be active = less revenue for the website

PijaVenosa · Jul 27, 2023

MyPvM said: ↑

Why should we limit ourselves to one thing only?
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You would still be able to have multiple threads, it's just that your bumping would be limited.

MyPvM said: ↑

Also limiting = less sales = less motivation to be active = less revenue for the website
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Not really, the amount of bumps you get would not change how many sales occur within sythe as a whole.

MyPvM said: ↑

Of course there are some that outsource, but its still legitimate business at the end of the day - as long as the client is informed.
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Yeah it's legitimate. I don't even think the client needs to be informed. It's just that it's a layer that doesn't add any value.

PijaVenosa · Jul 27, 2023

MyPvM said: ↑

Why should we limit ourselves to one thing only?
Click to expand...

Adam Smith said:

Of the Division of Labor

The greatest improvement in the productive powers of labour, and the greater part of the skill, dexterity, and judgment with which it is anywhere directed, or applied, seem to have been the effects of the division of labour.

The effects of the division of labour, in the general business of society, will be more easily understood by considering in what manner it operates in some particular manufactures. It is commonly supposed to be carried furthest in some very trifling ones; not perhaps that it really is carried further in them than in others of more importance: but in those trifling manufactures which are destined to supply the small wants of but a small number of people, the whole number of workmen must necessarily be small; and those employed in every different branch of the work can often be collected into the same workhouse, and placed at once under the view of the spectator. In those great manufactures, on the contrary, which are destined to supply the great wants of the great body of the people, every different branch of the work employs so great a number of workmen that it is impossible to collect them all into the same workhouse. We can seldom see more, at one time, than those employed in one single branch. Though in such manufactures, therefore, the work may really be divided into a much greater number of parts than in those of a more trifling nature, the division is not near so obvious, and has accordingly been much less observed.

To take an example, therefore, from a very trifling manufacture; but one in which the division of labour has been very often taken notice of, the trade of the pin-maker; a workman not educated to this business (which the division of labour has rendered a distinct trade), nor acquainted with the use of the machinery employed in it (to the invention of which the same division of labour has probably given occasion), could scarce, perhaps, with his utmost industry, make one pin in a day, and certainly could not make twenty. But in the way in which this business is now carried on, not only the whole work is a peculiar trade, but it is divided into a number of branches, of which the greater part are likewise peculiar trades. One man draws out the wire, another straights it, a third cuts it, a fourth points it, a fifth grinds it at the top for receiving the head; to make the head requires two or three distinct operations; to put it on is a peculiar business, to whiten the pins is another; it is even a trade by itself to put them into the paper; and the important business of making a pin is, in this manner, divided into about eighteen distinct operations, which, in some manufactories, are all performed by distinct hands, though in others the same man will sometimes perform two or three of them. I have seen a small manufactory of this kind where ten men only were employed, and where some of them consequently performed two or three distinct operations. But though they were very poor, and therefore but indifferently accommodated with the necessary machinery, they could, when they exerted themselves, make among them about twelve pounds of pins in a day. There are in a pound upwards of four thousand pins of a middling size. Those ten persons, therefore, could make among them upwards of forty-eight thousand pins in a day. Each person, therefore, making a tenth part of forty-eight thousand pins, might be considered as making four thousand eight hundred pins in a day. But if they had all wrought separately and independently, and without any of them having been educated to this peculiar business, they certainly could not each of them have made twenty, perhaps not one pin in a day; that is, certainly, not the two hundred and fortieth, perhaps not the four thousand eight hundredth part of what they are at present capable of performing, in consequence of a proper division and combination of their different operations.

In every other art and manufacture, the effects of the division of labour are similar to what they are in this very trifling one; though, in many of them, the labour can neither be so much subdivided, nor reduced to so great a simplicity of operation. The division of labour, however, so far as it can be introduced, occasions, in every art, a proportionable increase of the productive powers of labour. The separation of different trades and employments from one another seems to have taken place in consequence of this advantage. This separation, too, is generally called furthest in those countries which enjoy the highest degree of industry and improvement; what is the work of one man in a rude state of society being generally that of several in an improved one. In every improved society, the farmer is generally nothing but a farmer; the manufacturer, nothing but a manufacturer. The labour, too, which is necessary to produce any one complete manufacture is almost always divided among a great number of hands. How many different trades are employed in each branch of the linen and woollen manufactures from the growers of the flax and the wool, to the bleachers and smoothers of the linen, or to the dyers and dressers of the cloth! The nature of agriculture, indeed, does not admit of so many subdivisions of labour, nor of so complete a separation of one business from another, as manufactures. It is impossible to separate so entirely the business of the grazier from that of the corn-farmer as the trade of the carpenter is commonly separated from that of the smith. The spinner is almost always a distinct person from the weaver; but the ploughman, the harrower, the sower of the seed, and the reaper of the corn, are often the same. The occasions for those different sorts of labour returning with the different seasons of the year, it is impossible that one man should be constantly employed in any one of them. This impossibility of making so complete and entire a separation of all the different branches of labour employed in agriculture is perhaps the reason why the improvement of the productive powers of labour in this art does not always keep pace with their improvement in manufactures. The most opulent nations, indeed, generally excel all their neighbours in agriculture as well as in manufactures; but they are commonly more distinguished by their superiority in the latter than in the former. Their lands are in general better cultivated, and having more labour and expense bestowed upon them, produce more in proportion to the extent and natural fertility of the ground. But this superiority of produce is seldom much more than in proportion to the superiority of labour and expense. In agriculture, the labour of the rich country is not always much more productive than that of the poor; or, at least, it is never so much more productive as it commonly is in manufactures. The corn of the rich country, therefore, will not always, in the same degree of goodness, come cheaper to market than that of the poor. The corn of Poland, in the same degree of goodness, is as cheap as that of France, notwithstanding the superior opulence and improvement of the latter country. The corn of France is, in the corn provinces, fully as good, and in most years nearly about the same price with the corn of England, though, in opulence and improvement, France is perhaps inferior to England. The corn-lands of England, however, are better cultivated than those of France, and the corn-lands of France are said to be much better cultivated than those of Poland. But though the poor country, notwithstanding the inferiority of its cultivation, can, in some measure, rival the rich in the cheapness and goodness of its corn, it can pretend to no such competition in its manufactures; at least if those manufactures suit the soil, climate, and situation of the rich country. The silks of France are better and cheaper than those of England, because the silk manufacture, at least under the present high duties upon the importation of raw silk, does not so well suit the climate of England as that of France. But the hardware and the coarse woollens of England are beyond all comparison superior to those of France, and much cheaper too in the same degree of goodness. In Poland there are said to be scarce any manufactures of any kind, a few of those coarser household manufactures excepted, without which no country can well subsist.

This great increase of the quantity of work which, in consequence of the division of labour, the same number of people are capable of performing, is owing to three different circumstances; first, to the increase of dexterity in every particular workman; secondly, to the saving of the time which is commonly lost in passing from one species of work to another; and lastly, to the invention of a great number of machines which facilitate and abridge labour, and enable one man to do the work of many.

First, the improvement of the dexterity of the workman necessarily increases the quantity of the work he can perform; and the division of labour, by reducing every man's business to some one simple operation, and by making this operation the sole employment of his life, necessarily increased very much dexterity of the workman. A common smith, who, though accustomed to handle the hammer, has never been used to make nails, if upon some particular occasion he is obliged to attempt it, will scarce, I am assured, be able to make above two or three hundred nails in a day, and those, too, very bad ones. A smith who has been accustomed to make nails, but whose sole or principal business has not been that of a nailer, can seldom with his utmost diligence make more than eight hundred or a thousand nails in a day. I have seen several boys under twenty years of age who had never exercised any other trade but that of making nails, and who, when they exerted themselves, could make, each of them, upwards of two thousand three hundred nails in a day. The making of a nail, however, is by no means one of the simplest operations. The same person blows the bellows, stirs or mends the fire as there is occasion, heats the iron, and forges every part of the nail: in forging the head, too, he is obliged to change his tools. The different operations into which the making of a pin, or of a metal button, is subdivided, are all of them much more simple, and the dexterity of the person, of whose life it has been the sole business to perform them, is usually much greater. The rapidity with which some of the operations of those manufacturers are performed, exceeds what the human hand could, by those who had never seen them, be supposed capable of acquiring.

Secondly, the advantage which is gained by saving the time commonly lost in passing from one sort of work to another is much greater than we should at first view be apt to imagine it. It is impossible to pass very quickly from one kind of work to another that is carried on in a different place and with quite different tools. A country weaver, who cultivates a small farm, must lose a good deal of time in passing from his loom to the field, and from the field to his loom. When the two trades can be carried on in the same workhouse, the loss of time is no doubt much less. It is even in this case, however, very considerable. A man commonly saunters a little in turning his hand from one sort of employment to another. When he first begins the new work he is seldom very keen and hearty; his mind, as they say, does not go to it, and for some time he rather trifles than applies to good purpose. The habit of sauntering and of indolent careless application, which is naturally, or rather necessarily acquired by every country workman who is obliged to change his work and his tools every half hour, and to apply his hand in twenty different ways almost every day of his life, renders him almost always slothful and lazy, and incapable of any vigorous application even on the most pressing occasions. Independent, therefore, of his deficiency in point of dexterity, this cause alone must always reduce considerably the quantity of work which he is capable of performing.

Thirdly, and lastly, everybody must be sensible how much labour is facilitated and abridged by the application of proper machinery. It is unnecessary to give any example. I shall only observe, therefore, that the invention of all those machines by which labour is so much facilitated and abridged seems to have been originally owing to the division of labour. Men are much more likely to discover easier and readier methods of attaining any object, when the whole attention of their minds is directed towards that single object, than when it is dissipated among a great variety of things. But in consequence of the division of labor, the whole of every man's attention comes naturally to be directed towards some one very simple object. It is naturally to be expected, therefore, that some one or other of those who are employed in each particular branch of labor should soon find out easier and readier methods of performing their own particular work, wherever the nature of it admits of such improvement. A great part of the machines made use of in those manufactures in which labor is most subdivided, were originally the inventions of common workmen, who, being each of them employed in some very simple operation, naturally turned their thoughts towards finding out easier and readier methods of performing it. Whoever has been much accustomed to visit such manufactures must frequently have been shown very pretty machines, which were the inventions of such workmen, in order to facilitate and quicken their particular part of the work. In the first fire-engines, a boy was constantly employed to open and shut alternately the communication between the boiler and the cylinder, according as the piston either ascended or descended. One of those boys, who loved to play with his companions, observed that, by tying a string from the handle of the valve which opened this communication to another part of the machine, the valve would open and shut without his assistance, and leave him at liberty to divert himself with his playfellows. One of the greatest improvements that has been made upon this machine, since it was first invented, was in this manner the discovery of a boy who wanted to save his own labor.

All the improvements in machinery, however, have by no means been the inventions of those who had occasion to use the machines. Many improvements have been made by the ingenuity of the makers of the machines, when to make them became the business of a peculiar trade; and some by that of those who are called philosophers or men of speculation, whose trade it is not to do anything, but to observe everything; and who, upon that account, are often capable of combining together the powers of the most distant and dissimilar objects. In the progress of society, philosophy or speculation becomes, like every other employment, the principal or sole trade and occupation of a particular class of citizens. Like every other employment, too, it is subdivided into a great number of different branches, each of which affords occupation to a peculiar tribe or class of philosophers; and this subdivision of employment in philosophy, as well as in every other business, improves dexterity, and saves time. Each individual becomes more expert in his own peculiar branch, more work is done upon the whole, and the quantity of science is considerably increased by it.

It is the great multiplication of the productions of all the different arts, in consequence of the division of labour, which occasions, in a well-governed society, that universal opulence which extends itself to the lowest ranks of the people. Every workman has a great quantity of his own work to dispose of beyond what he himself has occasion for; and every other workman being exactly in the same situation, he is enabled to exchange a great quantity of his own goods for a great quantity, or, what comes to the same thing, for the price of a great quantity of theirs. He supplies them abundantly with what they have occasion for, and they accommodate him as amply with what he has occasion for, and a general plenty diffuses itself through all the different ranks of the society.

Observe the accommodation of the most common artificer or day-labourer in a civilised and thriving country, and you will perceive that the number of people of whose industry a part, though but a small part, has been employed in procuring him this accommodation, exceeds all computation. The woollen coat, for example, which covers the day-labourer, as coarse and rough as it may appear, is the produce of the joint labour of a great multitude of workmen. The shepherd, the sorter of the wool, the wool-comber or carder, the dyer, the scribbler, the spinner, the weaver, the fuller, the dresser, with many others, must all join their different arts in order to complete even this homely production. How many merchants and carriers, besides, must have been employed in transporting the materials from some of those workmen to others who often live in a very distant part of the country! How much commerce and navigation in particular, how many shipbuilders, sailors, sailmakers, ropemakers, must have been employed in order to bring together the different drugs made use of by the dyer, which often come from the remotest corners of the world! What a variety of labour, too, is necessary in order to produce the tools of the meanest of those workmen! To say nothing of such complicated machines as the ship of the sailor, the mill of the fuller, or even the loom of the weaver, let us consider only what a variety of labour is requisite in order to form that very simple machine, the shears with which the shepherd clips the wool. The miner, the builder of the furnace for smelting the ore, the seller of the timber, the burner of the charcoal to be made use of in the smelting-house, the brickmaker, the bricklayer, the workmen who attend the furnace, the millwright, the forger, the smith, must all of them join their different arts in order to produce them. Were we to examine, in the same manner, all the different parts of his dress and household furniture, the coarse linen shirt which he wears next his skin, the shoes which cover his feet, the bed which he lies on, and all the different parts which compose it, the kitchen-grate at which he prepares his victuals, the coals which he makes use of for that purpose, dug from the bowels of the earth, and brought to him perhaps by a long sea and a long land carriage, all the other utensils of his kitchen, all the furniture of his table, the knives and forks, the earthen or pewter plates upon which he serves up and divides his victualsthe different hands employed in preparing his bread and his beer, the glass window which lets in the heat and the light, and keeps out the wind and the rain, with all the knowledge and art requisite for preparing that beautiful and happy invention, without which these northern parts of the world could scarce have afforded a very comfortable habitation, together with the tools of all the different workmen employed in producing those different conveniences; if we examine, I say, all these things, and consider what a variety of labour is employed about each of them, we shall be sensible that, without the assistance and co-operation of many thousands, the very meanest person in a civilised country could not be provided, even according to what we very falsely imagine the easy and simple manner in which he is commonly accommodated. Compared, indeed, with the more extravagant luxury of the great, his accommodation must no doubt appear extremely simple and easy; and yet it may be true, perhaps, that the accommodation of a European prince does not always so much exceed that of an industrious and frugal peasant as the accommodation of the latter exceeds that of many an African king, the absolute master of the lives and liberties of ten thousand naked savages.
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Kyojuro · Jul 27, 2023

That Logic doesn't apply in a Virtual World. No Support.

You have to offer more services to stay concurrent in the Virtual World/Economy. The more you offer in the Virtual world the more your likely to make a decent return. In regards to the auto-bumping were trying to reach a resolution here: Auto Bumping

The Kappin · Sep 27, 2023

I support this, I don't think you need to offer more at all. I think that's what someone trying to do what everyone else has already done would try and do. I think you just need to be better at what you do offer. nobody wants to schedule quests for tomorrow, next week, get a cape in 6 days, wait literally months for account creation, Just be damn good and available always at what you actually do. There's NONE of those guys charging double for RIGHT NOW SERVICES. I fully support this. There's nothing worse than hopping in all these discord servers to wait two hours for replies to be told 2 hours later from then once they have outsourced the work, that they can start my quests tomorrow afternoon. People pay more for right now services. Cater to them. That's an ENTIRE market your forgetting.
If you want to be a true AIO create an AIO section of the market for people that are looking for that specifically. bump your threads every hour in that section. But damn even trying to find logins the other day was hell cycling through "misc accounts" and seeing more people advertising their services with 1-2 tut island accounts for sale.

Ankie · Sep 27, 2023

No support,true there alot of people advertise 24.7
While they barley on.
However you cant judge everyone on sythe because of this,more threads more active website.

The Kappin · Sep 27, 2023

Ankie said: ↑

No support,true there alot of people advertise 24.7
While they barley on.
However you cant judge everyone on sythe because of this, more threads more active website.
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More threads more for people to sift through to find what they actually want. More threads = more people advertising things they cant fulfill = worse user experience =people leave to other markets that are MUCH easier to navigate.

Ankie · Sep 27, 2023

The Kappin said: ↑

More threads more for people to sift through to find what they actually want. More threads = more people advertising things they cant fulfill = worse user experience =people leave to other markets that are MUCH easier to navigate.
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Not correct at all. When people log in to Sythe and check the channels, seeing 40+ threads and an active website, they will stay. As I said, you cannot include everyone, and people who advertise things but can't fulfill their promises must be punished. However, removing bumps or forcing it to one thread per 4 hours makes no sense."

Gartec · Sep 27, 2023

Holy word salad! Basically you want to decrease the amount of times users can bump in 24 hours. Doing that solves none of the problems you listed. The only market on this website which receives a majority of this website’s traffic is Runescape. So the restrictions you want to impose would actually further decrease activity in the other markets.

The excessive threads issue can be reduced to competition of the front page. Markets are competitive. Consumers should sift through pages to find the best marketer for the products they want.

The suggestion you should make in this instance is to increase the amount of threads 1 page can hold/display.

The Kappin · Sep 27, 2023

Ankie said: ↑

Not correct at all. When people log in to Sythe and check the channels, seeing 40+ threads and an active website, they will stay. As I said, you cannot include everyone, and people who advertise things but can't fulfill their promises must be punished. However, removing bumps or forcing it to one thread per 4 hours makes no sense."
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So these 40+threads that are needed to be active cant be considered active from daily bumping? from actual active users using Sythe, interacting with others, and networking, itself? your saying that bumping threads creating inflated numbers of a false perception of market is a good way of advertising?

Someone running a service on a site that is available at their pc as a service provider daily cant bump their thread daily? Isn't that kind of their personal responsibility to maintain their business advertisement? Maybe if they had special promotions or something contextually new and beneficial for the community that would count as worthy of more than a bump? But then again, they wouldn't ever see it buried in the bumps right?

Velasso said: ↑

The excessive threads issue can be reduced to competition of the front page. Markets are competitive. Consumers should sift through pages to find the best marketer for the products they want.
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Did you have to sift through 100 apps to find Amazon? How many pages do you search on Amazon before making your purchase? How much time do you waste on the $2 cheaper option from someone that takes 3 weeks to deliver but you can with prime get the $2 more item tomorrow? what about market tools they have to search by price? (I know that's crazy, its not even a forum anymore then right?) Also have you even downloaded or browsed Temu? Trying to really pinch pennies for quality? I'm guessing not or only once because of a bad experience or it not even being worth the hassle because of the expectation that's going to come with all products from it knowing they are subpar. I think your idea of marketing is a little outdated and one-sided my dude no offense. Your not thinking from a buyers perspective at all.

As a whole, this sounds Like a lot of laziness from people hoping the scrape something out of a community VS bring something new or beneficial to it.

Gartec · Sep 27, 2023

The Kappin said: ↑

Did you have to sift through 100 apps to find Amazon? How many pages do you search on Amazon before making your purchase? How much time do you waste on the $2 cheaper option from someone that takes 3 weeks to deliver but you can with prime get the $2 more item tomorrow? what about market tools they have to search by price? (I know that's crazy, its not even a forum anymore then right?) Also have you even downloaded or browsed Temu? Trying to really pinch pennies for quality? I'm guessing not or only once because of a bad experience or it not even being worth the hassle because of the expectation that's going to come with all products from it knowing they are subpar. I think your idea of marketing is a little outdated and one-sided my dude no offense. Your not thinking from a buyers perspective at all.

As a whole, this sounds Like a lot of laziness from people hoping the scrape something out of a community VS bring something new or beneficial to it.
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None of these things are applicable here because this is a message-board market. For example, on Amazon, their algorithm favors sellers who are ranked higher (more sales, reviews, views). If we applied those algorithmic processes, it would only propel users who have the most vouches/views/thread replies. Doing that is counterintuitive in regards to what this suggestion is asking for. Also, decreasing the amount of bumps per 24 hours still does not solve any of the issues OP listed. The problem here is that with the volume of threads/listings in the market, it makes it easy to drop off the front page if many users are bumping threads within a given time frame. There isn’t much that can be done about that. Hence my mention of competition. From the buyers perspective, they are more likely to go to what they see in front of them (front page), but it is still recommended for them to view past the first page, as it would be for any other website market listing.

The Kappin · Sep 27, 2023

Gartec said: ↑

None of these things are applicable here because this is a message-board market. For example, on Amazon, their algorithm favors sellers who are ranked higher (more sales, reviews, views). If we applied those algorithmic processes, it would only propel users who have the most vouches/views/thread replies. Doing that is counterintuitive in regards to what this suggestion is asking for. A
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I don't see anything wrong with that in the respect of the actual work the person is putting in, I think it would negate the need for bumping bots as a whole for those who are that established, and then people who are either A. striving to get their name known or B. those working for it advertising themselves 2x daily is realistic for both. I think if anything its a more transparent look at the market and helps users locate what the want much easier, creating more traffic. Having people vouch on their threads when services were completed should keep threads active enough, most service providers used to encourage this. Now its more of a if you have time. Providers used to give services for vouches to establish a reputation.

Gartec said: ↑

Also, decreasing the amount of bumps per 24 hours still does not solve any of the issues OP listed. The problem here is that with the volume of threads/listings in the market, it makes it easy to drop off the front page if many users are bumping threads within a given time frame. There isn’t much that can be done about that.
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Now I can also agree with this. The problem %100 lies within the volume of useless listings, and them being bumped just because of the other services offered. I think they work hand in hand together. If the number of listings were limited to or creating a AIO specific category, maybe a max of 2 postings in the market section as a whole, I think it would make navigation a world easier.

Gartec · Sep 27, 2023

The Kappin said: ↑

I don't see anything wrong with that in the respect of the actual work the person is putting in, I think it would negate the need for bumping bots as a whole for those who are that established, and then people who are either A. striving to get their name known or B. those working for it advertising themselves 2x daily is realistic for both. I think if anything its a more transparent look at the market and helps users locate what the want much easier, creating more traffic. Having people vouch on their threads when services were completed should keep threads active enough, most service providers used to encourage this. Now its more of a if you have time. Providers used to give services for vouches to establish a reputation.
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Having a fair and balanced market should be the standard here. There shouldn't be prioritized listings. You will unintentionally create monopolies that way. The current setup is best because it gives everyone a chance to build up their own business on a leveled playing field.

The Kappin said: ↑

Now I can also agree with this. The problem %100 lies within the volume of useless listings, and them being bumped just because of the other services offered. I think they work hand in hand together. If the number of listings were limited to or creating a AIO specific category, maybe a max of 2 postings in the market section as a whole, I think it would make navigation a world easier.
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What qualifies a listing as useless? Threads created in the market that don't follow guidelines appropriate for said market are usually locked and buried. Limiting use in the market is the opposite of a free market, which is what I believe this website is striving for.

The Kappin · Sep 28, 2023

Gartec said: ↑

Having a fair and balanced market should be the standard here. There shouldn't be prioritized listings. You will unintentionally create monopolies that way. The current setup is best because it gives everyone a chance to build up their own business on a leveled playing field.
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I don't understand how your creating prioritized listings. No one post would be prioritized over another. It would reflect work done and work done only. That seems very fair and balanced. How can you say what their currently is, is a balanced market? Tell me how someone small would not feel forced into spending $500 to be able to auto-bump their thread on top of having to have one coded for them? So you want to Pay-Gate decent advertising for those who already have and don't want to work any further to continue growing their business?

Gartec said: ↑

What qualifies a listing as useless? Threads created in the market that don't follow guidelines appropriate for said market are usually locked and buried. Limiting use in the market is the opposite of a free market, which is what I believe this website is striving for.
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I would say instances of thread criteria containing more about other services than the category it is under, that seems useless to its category. That would be a great start. Limiting use is already in effect with market guidelines, its only one more guideline. this gives the market order in its own. It makes for better content on the end user side hence why the guidelines exist. New users definitely don't get that experience. I know my friends don't, And almost everyone I talk to on discord has similar things to say about the marketplace and its state. People are going to other markets as a whole because of this. All of these sellers know this and advertise on their platforms as well.

Slash · Sep 28, 2023

No support reduces a lot of potential for people who have AIO.

Rather remove auto bumping to solve and tackle some issues you highlighted.

Gartec · Sep 28, 2023

The Kappin said: ↑

I don't understand how your creating prioritized listings. No one post would be prioritized over another. It would reflect work done and work done only. That seems very fair and balanced.
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If you believe that listings being displayed should use an algorithm similar to that of Amazon, then you are in favor of prioritization because certain listings would be propelled based on traffic/vouches/replies. Doing that is actually not fair for newer users in the market looking to do business and would have the opposite effect of what you're advocating for.

The Kappin said: ↑

How can you say what their currently is, is a balanced market? Tell me how someone small would not feel forced into spending $500 to be able to auto-bump their thread on top of having to have one coded for them? So you want to Pay-Gate decent advertising for those who already have and don't want to work any further to continue growing their business?
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Balanced from the standpoint that there is no inherent prioritization of listings. I wouldn't consider an auto-bump to be "advertising". I also don't believe users are feeling coerced into optional donations. The topic of auto-bumping all together is a different topic that is currently being discussed Auto Bumping. I do agree that auto-bumping should not be a site feature, let alone accessible only by donating a certain amount. I echo that position on the thread I provided.

The Kappin said: ↑

I would say instances of thread criteria containing more about other services than the category it is under, that seems useless to its category. That would be a great start.
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This sounds like something that can be addressed by reporting the thread. Can you list some examples so I can better understand what you mean?

The Kappin said: ↑

Limiting use is already in effect with market guidelines, its only one more guideline. this gives the market order in its own. It makes for better content on the end user side hence why the guidelines exist. New users definitely don't get that experience. I know my friends don't, And almost everyone I talk to on discord has similar things to say about the marketplace and its state. People are going to other markets as a whole because of this. All of these sellers know this and advertise on their platforms as well.
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Can you better describe the limitations you're experiencing? There is an uphill battle when you are a new user looking to do business in the market. I don't believe that to be specific to this website, but for all markets.

PijaVenosa · Sep 28, 2023

Gartec said: ↑

Basically you want to decrease the amount of times users can bump in 24 hours.
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Not necessarily decrease the total times a user can bump, but remove its scaling with threads, so that there is no incentive towards making one thread in each category, and there's more rewards to those who specialize in a category.

Slash said: ↑

No support reduces a lot of potential for people who have AIO.

Rather remove auto bumping to solve and tackle some issues you highlighted.
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Yes the AIO nerf is by design.

Not against removing autobumping, but that has its own separate thread.

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