Lucky Charm - Banned after service for Macroing

[Insanity07]

Scammer's profile link: Lucky Charm
Amount scammed: Worker placed a permanent macroing blackmark on a 7+ years old clean account.
Discord ID: LuckyCharm#7749
Proof that it's their Discord: @Lucky Charm can confirm he is aware of the situation.

Explanation of the trade: Paid Lucky Charm 108.5m for a 81-99 defence service.

How they scammed: His worker proceeded to complete the order in the given timeframe. 2 days later I attempt to login and my account has been disabled.
Please see following images for jagex comments on the ban to confirm there was definitely macroing on the account: Banned

Please see following imgur thread for discord conversation with @Lucky Charm: Conversation with Lucky Charm

Important note: In @Lucky Charm's ToS it states "6. We are not responsible for any bans, mutes. During or after the service is completed . No refunds will be given. Everything will be done by hand." Since I went with this service of course I agreed to this ToS. Here is the thing though: everything was NOT done by hand. When I asked for screenshots from a runelite folder of the levels I was met with excuses. @Lucky Charm can not provide proof that this was hand trained and the fact that Jagex detected macro botting software on the account states otherwise. Thus @Lucky Charm has broken his own ToS in the sense that everything was NOT "done by hand".

Other relevant trade screenshots: Provided discord conversation in imgur links above.

Another important note: It cannot be a coincidence that I have played this account on and off for 7 years with an impeccable offense history and 2 days after I try using @Lucky Charm service, I am met with a macroing software ban.
I am not saying all of their orders are done with botting software - I am merely speaking from my own experience here and dealing with @Lucky Charm directly related to my case only.

 

I can confirm that i am aware of the situation but i am kind of puzzled on what to do here.
First of all would like to apologize for any infractions that might have occured on our behalve.
Our Terms of Service: Screenshot - c8a7b3641a338224d0f3e32110413975 - Gyazo

Our worker unfortunately could not show the screenshots, he mentioned how he turned them off since he got many folders while he was working with other service providers before and didn't think that they would ever be necessary. I asked them to turn them on again, and decided to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. I will track this worker and make sure he can provide screenshots always from now on.

However, as rude as it might seem it will be his word against yours, he says he did not bot, and you mention how there is a ban on the account. I have asked two times if i could log in to the account, and check if there is an actual ban. This wouldn't change things however, but then i can 100% be certain that there was a ban placed on the account and this is not just a random accusation. However i was denied that access.

Screenshot - f5ae4d6cdd05e0226dcb405055fc21af - Gyazo
You mention how you dont want compensation, and but that you are eligible for compensation at the same time? On what grounds? There is a 2 day ban on the account and the ban is not permanent.

There is from my POV multiple things that could have happend to the account

1) My worker was botting on it
2) You were botting on it before/after the service
3) Jagex made a mistake and noticed ip changes together with huge XP gained and this might be a false ban

Since i cannot rule out 100% what happend i took these measures, the work was done on the account and hence i payed my worker for it. If any of the sythe moderators see what is best fit i am really open to any feedback, however i am not sure what i can further to do here.

 

[Insanity07]

Furthermore: here is a screenshot of @Lucky Charm worker application - Number 8..

PLEASE READ NUMBER 8 IN THE ABOVE SCREENSHOT.

Since the worker evidently did not follow this worker agreement and ToS, clearly @Lucky Charm is in the wrong here and needs to accept that this ToS was broken by his own worker.

To reply to what @Lucky Charm said above:

Firstly - although compensation is not the reason I am writing this report - I am definitely eligible for it as misconduct should be punished some way shape or form.

Secondly - the reason I have not let @Lucky Charm log onto my account is because he already made it extremely clear that he took a stance where there was nothing he can do regardless of the ban. So there was no benefit for me to give yet another person my login details from this shady service business.
If a Sythe moderator deems it necessary for me to give him my login details so he can confirm that there is indeed a ban on the account (which there is - why would I be putting in this much effort for no reason) I will absolutely let him on the account or even the Sythe mod on the account to confirm. I have absolutely nothing to hide here .

 

[Insanity07]

"His word against yours" is simply not good enough.

1. When there is cold hard evidence that @Lucky Charm's worker clearly broke the worker ToS by not using RuneLite and providing screenshots of levels (no evidence at all of any hand training at that).

2. Adding onto that, the ToS between myself (the customer) and the business (Lucky Charm) was also broken as if everything was truly done by hand we wouldn't be here discussing this.

3. There is a 2 day ban (which will be on my account history forever) for macroing software detection which was reviewed by Jagex and confirmed there was botting activity on the account.

 

The worker terms of service is between me and my workers. Those have nothing to do with you as a customer im afraid.
As i state again, i will make sure to track this worker and make sure that he will have all screenshots available again.
Hopefully you can understand that even with screenshots, there is botting software out there that exists that is compatible with runelite. So even that would not have proved anything to be honest.

With these situation there is no hard-proof out there, hence unfortunately there is nothing else to be done here unfortunately
I do understand that it is very unfortunate for you, however there is two things that i don't like here

1) You don't want to proof that the account my worker worked on actually got banned
2) You want compensation, however it was a 2 day ban and you should already have access to the account again

How can you demand certain things and then don't want to proof anything just because you don't gain anything out of it?

 

[Insanity07]

"The worker ToS has nothing to do with the customer"? With all due respect firstly it is on a public discord for everyone to see and secondly the worker must adhere to all worker ToS to uphold a legitimate service for the customer - so I'm sorry to tell you; yes it does.

Please see Rule #10 in worker ToS - Worker ToS

If you pair both Rule #8 and #10 together, you have quite literally solved this case. @Lucky Charm can NOT provide me with Runelite folders; the worker is evidently (I have given proof of evident macroing - where is the proof for hand training?) responsible for my account ban; so thus I am eligible for the full worker's deposit.

To address the first point you raised - I do not feel comfortable giving you my login details in the middle of a dispute when I already feel wrongly done by from your business. I have provided all screenshots and am absolutely willing to let a Sythe moderator onto the account if need be.

To address the second point you raised - for someone who has been in this business for so long; I'm not sure why you can't seem to grasp the principle here. The fact I cannot access my account for 2 days is not the issue. The issue is you guys clearly botted (gained 8m Defence XP in 5 days on my account) and have placed a permanent blackmark on my 7+ years clean account.

Complying to your own ToS rules - I am eligible to receive the worker's deposit which is 200m.

Lets wait for a response from a Sythe moderator.

 

Alright, lets get a few things straight here. I am actually curious to see where this is all going now and what your whole point is of this post anyway.

1) You mention how you don't want any compensation, but at the same time you are pushing very hard to get 200m deposit of my worker.

2) You are not willing to provide evidence for your claim that the account was banned to me. So therefore from my point of view it is just a random accusation.

3) I tell you that even with screenshots there still could have been botting on the account but you feel how screenshots are everything. So when we did have screenshots but the account got banned it was okay no problem? Probably a jagex mistake? This worker has worked already for a few weeks in my services without any problem and have worked another month for another big service provider without issues.

4) Anything could have happend on the account, for all you know you could have botted it which seems more and more likely the case for me since you are pushing very hard for compensation right now, while at the same time saying that it was not the point? Hella confusing

5) Here when opening the skilling ticket you agreed with the ToS of the service. "We are not responsible for any bans, mutes. During or after the service is completed. No refunds will be given. Everything will be done by hand" Please re-read it. There is no damage done to the account. You keep talking about 7+ years? Let us show the expired offences on the account and see how "clean it is"

 

[Insanity07]

It is quite disappointing that as an experienced service provider who is having their integrity questioned you still can not see where this is going and are completely blinded by your own opinion instead of the cold hard facts / evidence being presented here.

1) You have taken what I said out of context. Compensation is not my sole motivation of writing this post - despite your own ToS stating that I am in fact entitled to it. I am writing this post due to the misconduct on your behalf as a service provider and failure to enforce your own worker ToS on your employee - leading to not only a ban on my account, but failure to uphold the ToS we agreed upon (business to customer). Thus, what seems fit here is to receive the 200m deposit (complying to your own ToS).

2) I have said multiple times in this thread now - I do not feel comfortable giving you my login details in the middle of a dispute when I already feel wrongly done by from your business. I have provided all screenshots and am absolutely willing to let a Sythe moderator onto the account if need be.

3) Cool - that's NOT what your ToS say. You can not change how your worker / customer ToS is dealt with post-transaction and mid-dispute. As I said - this report is based solely on my own experience with your service and not reputation in the past. Accept that in this one instance you are in the wrong and be better for next time, no disrespect at all.

4) Why would I bot on my account with a clean history of 7 years? Why would I PAY for a service to train my levels if I could bot for free? This is literally why I paid you guys because I wanted a trusted, legit hand-trained service to level my account.

5) The first part of your statement is reiterating what I have already been saying. Yes we agreed to the ToS. Why are you still missing that everything was NOT done by hand? You can not seriously think your ToS holds up from a customer standpoint if the business themselves break the ToS... right? Again... Nothing to hide on my behalf. Will gladly let a Sythe moderator on the account to confirm everything I am saying regarding the ban and history of account

 

[Insanity07]

Sidenote:
Why are you trying to run with the narrative that I'm the one who needs to provide some sort of evidence? I have already provided:

1. Screenshots of my account ban and the reason Jagex banned it (no coincidence it happened straight after your service?).

2. Screenshots of your Service ToS and Worker ToS and how they have been completely neglected in this instance on your behalf.

3. Used your own ToS in every instance with nothing but factual information to solve this case which you cannot argue.

WHAT EVIDENCE HAVE YOU PROVIDED THAT THIS WAS FULLY HAND TRAINED? Other than saying "my worker told me he did it so I believe him"?

 

Terms of Service are really easy to understand however you do not seem to grasp the nature of it, so let me explain it better to you.

By opening a skilling ticket you agreed on these terms of service ( and no other terms of service )
Screenshot - 224a6f69af1e94ed805b689f776341f5 - Gyazo
Screenshot - 8716f70508fad9c694df5b024de3c8b5 - Gyazo

When a worker wants to work with me, he needs to confirm the worker ToS through sythe (so not you as a customer) these terms of service are between me and my worker and are only enforceable by either me or my worker (so not you as a customer)

Furthermore please read the lines you are iterating
Screenshot - 16a40babd51754db58232ba871d19ea6 - Gyazo
Point 8, we have the right to reimburse customer. So that means i have the right to do it. Its not an obligation, since it is only a 2 day ban and you already have access to the account, cannot prove to me that the ban actually happend and told me you didn't want compensation i have chosen not to do this and give the worker the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Since i already told you that multiple things could have happend to the account, and it is not permanent i feel no need to compensate you here. If any sythe mods tell me otherwise im happy to do so.

You started this sythe report, when you post a sythe report and have throw accusations of somebody scamming/botting on your account there needs to be proof. It is not the other way around.

Furthermore the ban picture shows expired offences. It would be interesting to see those expired offences to see if you have not botted earlier on the account, which i feel is actually the case here.

You say you require evidence that the account was not botted on, i tell you that there exists botting software that is compatible with Runelite. So what would that have proven to you? Please clarify what difference that would have made in this case.

 

[Insanity07]

"Only enforceable by either me or my worker (so not you as a customer)". Completely agree! So how about you actually enforce your own rules on your worker and this case would be resolved.

Need I say it again... Combine the fact that Rule #8 was completely broken on your side of the transaction and Rule #10 states what will happen in the instance of this occurring. You have already solved the case in hindsight. Now you need to actually enforce the rules you have.

Essentially what you are saying is you do not take 2 day bans seriously and unless it's a permanent ban - tough luck. This is a disappointing outlook you have as an experienced service provider where customer account safety & integrity should be the number one priority - regardless the length of the ban.

At your request - here is the picture of the expired offense history: RWT - Inferno Purchase

As you can see there has never, and will never be a botting ban that has come from me owning the account. Only after your service (wow, coincidence?) (the rwt ban is for buying an inferno cape service).

The difference providing me with screenshots from RuneLite would make is huge. It would actually show your worker upholding the ToS we agreed upon. Your ToS literally states this has to be recorded to the customer; so why all of a sudden can you not provide this to me when my account has had an illegal botting software detected on it whilst your service was utilised?

 

Interesting. 7+ years clean account, got a 2 year old ban.

I dont want to talk in circles here mate. Ill wait for a moderators reply.

 

[Insanity07]

Funny how you changed your tone when you accused me of hiding numerous botting bans on the account yet all I have is a minor RWT from 7 years of playing the game (Proof I would never bot. Again... coincidence it occurs 2 days after your service...).

Yes lets wait for a moderator to reply. I have given more than enough evidence that you broke ToS in numerous ways in this transaction and your worker is liable for my ban.

And so we wait.

 

Screenshot - 87ace3abba9f891412a46f194c87972e - Gyazo
Screenshot - ea84c30ab0ab4877d65d74bdb3b89f3a - Gyazo

You didn't want compensation. The whole point of your report if i can summarize it is that your "7 years totally clean account got a 2 day ban" however as we just saw that was not the case....

 

[Insanity07]

I didn't want compensation until I realised just how wrongly I was done by and began to read your Worker ToS and Service ToS again to then come to the decision that I am not letting you get away with this unpunished. I will not let it slide that you broke your own ToS and are refusing to enforce your Worker ToS because it would mean doing the right thing by the customer - thus money out of your pocket.

Having read that is how you summarise this report shows me how immature you are and how badly you want to flip the script to a minor RWT ban that has nothing to do with botting or this report. Face it. You are in the wrong here.

Need I bring up this case? Reporting LuckyCharm for deposit scam. You are on record to be a toxic person to your employees and have quite a bad history with TWC's (wish I knew this before). Since you want to involve something unrelated to this case I did too.

Stop commenting on this thread and lets wait for a moderator.

 

[Insanity07]

Sidenote: A huge report from @Lucky Charm's ex-manager has just been posted which backs a lot of what I have been saying about @Lucky Charm consistently breaking ToS and forcing workers to lie to customers. Please see here: Reporting LuckyCharm - Long Thread

There is even proof in that thread that Lucky was aware one of his workers botted on customer accounts yet did nothing about it. Quite frankly this is disgraceful.

 

Did nothing about it? That worker was using an OSRS plugin with 100% evidence and was immediately removed, unlike your case where you wouldn't even show the evidence to me.

Forcing workers to lie to customers? Have you read the whole report or are you just iterating what a ban evader was falsely accusing me of?

About the clean account part, it just show me and everybody else how you are clearly lying. Your whole point was "black mark on a 7+ years clean account" now we see how that clearly wasn't the case.

 

@Lucky Charm has this worker been fired? @Insanity07 who was the worker?

 

@Lucky Charm has this worker been fired? @Insanity07 who was the worker?

The worker that was 100% using an OSRS plugin immediately got fired.

The worker that was working on @Insanity07 his account i decided to give him a final chance, since he had a reason to why he turned off screenshots and he didn't read the whole ToS at the time.
That decision is also based on the fact that he did multiple tickets without any problems, and is providing screenshots from now on. Furthermore, he also worked for another serviceprovider for over a month without any problems.

 

[Superfluous]

This is very similar to this report: AmericanGlory botting on NMZ service

My ruling there was:

I don't see how you could possibly train an account for someone without ANY sort of proof (chat logs mentioning levels gained, screenshots from a client, etc.) of the training having occurred. Certainly you should do these things if you're offering your time as as service provider. [The service provider] will have to reach an agreement with [his customer] to replace the [value] lost

In keeping with that I've TWC'd @Lucky Charm for having shitty business operation practices that don't require workers to screenshot all their levels, and @Lucky Charm will have to reach an agreement with @Insanity07 to make up for the damage done to his account. Though it's still not totally clear to me whether the black mark resulted in a 2-day ban or what.