Community Participation Wanted: Offsite Offenses

First off, we are looking to lighten up on offsite offense banning (possibly), of course except scamming as thats never going to change. Offsite scammers will be hammered on the spot with no questions asked and zero tolerance. Its been a long time that we have lost a lot of members due to offsite offenses as well with some lighter bans resulting also.


So in your opinion, which offenses should we ban for and which should we let go? Also how long should the statute of limitations be? (any offense over X time cannot be used for a ban)

I will have this thread open for 7 days at which time I will make a list of which way (bannable or not) that each offsite offense will go into and then present it for passage in Staff Lounge then get Sythes approval as well.

Thanks and lets work together to make this happen.

 

I believe any offenses done before the corresponding part has been added to the rules should not be punished. This practice is common in most European countries.

For example, I am quite sure the "Blackhat"/Malicious Activities rule is fairly recent, and any and all blackhat activities done before the enaction of this rule should not be punishable.

 

I don't think that you guys should lighten up on any of the offsite banning. If they are banned on another forum or they are seen on another forum doing something that is frowned upon here on Sythe Ban them as you do so well. But can i ask why you want to "lighten up on offsite offense banning?" And what other offsite offenses are you referring to? I'm guessing that offsite scamming/hacking are still a ban on the spot offense. You guys are doing a good job of keeping this place safe as best you can from people who have shown they have had bad intentions in the past. So why change that now??

 

One thing that always bothered me about Sythe is how easily someone can be banned, for almost any reason. One of these issues, of course, is off-site banning, and I hate it when a great member gets permanently removed from the community for 'illegal' activities, or for their actions several years ago off of this website.

1. Blackhat activities
This can be defined by a variety of different actions, but think of it this way: have you ever pirated a movie? That's extremely illegal, but it's widespread. If we were to be so strict on every aspect of illegal activity, most Sythe members would be gone. It's just a matter of who gets caught. This is also similar to the *******s issue. Yes, it's illegal and anyone who commits crimes is not welcome in our community, but we need to prioritize this to the only law that directly affects us: fraud.

2. Statute of limitations
Any offence before the Sythe join date, other than scamming or something that shows extreme lack of character, should not be used for a ban. They were not a part of the community, did not know about our rules, and obviously, people change. This brings me to my next opinion: we should forgive people for their offences past four years. This is simply based on the amount of time I could define major changes in my beliefs. People are dynamic, not static, and we need to understand that. However, if we want to do it from a more legal perspective, it should be two years. I belief I remember my sister telling me that after two years, it's pretty much impossible to sue someone for money they owe you, and since we are largely a trading community, that should suffice.

3. Please remove the elastic clause
The thing that bothers me most is when people are banned for association, as I was in their shoes once. I was permanently banned, without any consideration as to what my side of the story is, for being friends with people who harmed the website. Yes, my actions were stupid and I should have just stayed away, but I never had intentions to do harm. Just because someone is friends with a scammer, or trolls too hard on the website, pisses staff members off, or commits similar reckless acts, they should not be permanently removed from the community. No permanent ban should be given to activities not concerning Sythe or Sythe members directly, and no permanent bans should be given out for temporary irrational acts.


Finally, to close it off, I would like to state that ban evasions or acts committed as a direct result of an unfair ban should not re-constitute that ban. When people do something stupid like that, specifically when they are innocent, they are not in an emotional state to make very good decisions. They should not remain banned if they are proven to be innocent, just because they ban evaded afterward.

 

I am in favor of a 1 - 2 year limitation on offenses.

 

I am extremely confident when I say you'll never see anyone banned for this again, Or at least I hope. Extreme actions are normally made in extreme situations, everything had got out of hand. Since then, especially at administrative level, theres a whole new staff team except about 4-5, who all think differently and therefore make decisions differently.

 

Okay, well I guess it is completely fine to have people who are spreading FUD RATs in our community as well as people selling DDoSers, crypter services, and a vast list of other things that can destroy someones computer or online entities. I myself make it a goal to find people who post their HF link to make sure they aren't doing these things. I got one guy banned yesterday. He was selling a Crypter service, a FUD RAT, and DDoSing services as well as several other things. Then a day or two before that there was a guy who had posted his HF username and I checked on his background and not even 2 months ago he was actively using a FUD RAT and trading 'Slaves' with other people. Slaves being people infected and in his botnet.

We have enough hacking problems already that causes a lot of trouble. I would rather not have people with those interests in the community.

 

I am to the point where if it isn't malicious, then we should let it go.

 

I believe any form of scamming or illegal activities, hacking, phising should be bannable if done off-site. Limitation of 1-2 years, agree also, after all people change; we were all kids once.

So my stance on the question at hand, everything else, offensive language, advertising ect. Well no, I'm sure Sythe's rules don't match other website's rules 100% for one, and if it's nothing to do with scamming(financial loss of other users), then that user is of no serious threat to Sythe's community, or at least you have to reason to assume they will be.

So someone is banned for Advertising over on Powerbot, and they are over here. Sure there may be the potential for the to break that rule here also, there is reason to suggest that. But is such an offence really worthy of a ban? As long as the offence they committed is not implicated with the safety of other users, then I don't feel off-site offenses should affect users on Sythe. If they re-commit here, they'll be banned anyway, with no cost to the community. Who knows, maybe they would have learnt the lesson off-site. Same goes for all the other rules which don't fall under scamming or black-hat activities.

For evasion, as Grave stated, it should be relevant to reason for evading. Nothing to do with a person feeling they were "wrongly banned" however, evasion is evasion, it can be appealed. As long as they weren't evading for scamming or black-hat activities then I don't feel they should be penalized here.

I read a thread in the High Pardon forum not so long ago where someone was framed off-site, or was thought to have been. Guess it's a lot more tricky, given anyone can make an account on say powerbot and have your MSN up, and be scamming or involved in illegal activity. Clearly this would be solely of motive to get you banned, but hey I'm sure it happens. I guess this just raises the issue of proof. I doubt I.P reference would be plausible, harder to police for sure, yet easier to make mistakes.

 

I agree with this. Anything that doesn't cause harm (trolling, advertising, spamming, and things like that) shouldn't be punishable on Sythe but I am still firm about scamming and malicious blackhat offenses.

 

Strongly agree with this post. It's ridiculous to ban someone for something they did whilst not bound by our rules.

GTFO with the four year thing. You can go from being in your last year of high school to married with a kid within four years.

I think one year is enough. If somebody can go a year being clean, then they obviously have moved on from that aspect of their lives.


---------

My perspective on the whole thing is this: If a person isn't an obvious threat, and he has some justification for what he did (I needed money is not justification, something more along the lines of curiosity; this should be left to staff discretion) then I think the user should be allowed back.

 

What constitutes blackhat definitely needs to be looked over - personally I think mild blackhat should be tolerated offsite but JDBs, RATs, and Keyloggers should definitely be bannable as they directly harm sythe users - Interest in how various exploits etc work is not too malicious imo but actually using them maliciously is something entirely different

 

I think everything is perfectly fine as it is and still would not like to see anything get changed really...Sythe.org has a reputation for being strict and at times non tolerant dealing with these sort of issues and I'd like to keep it that way (at least for the time being)...

 

Aside from scamming I don't believe that it's any of our business what people do elsewhere. If someone sells RATs and shit on HF, what do we care as long as they don't do it here? If someone wants to post something FUD and infect people they'll do it regardless of the rules. In my opinion we can and should regulate strict rules for things that occur on our site, but not take any interest in what people do elsewhere (as mentioned before, aside from scamming).

 

I don't think hackers and phishers should ever be allowed here regardless of how much time has past. To me they are a lot worse then scammers. They are dangerous to the community.

 

Don't ban for silly things like host booters any more and also inquiring as in asking about a RAT/ anything else should be taken much more lightly than "I'll help you spread a rat if you pay me" because in the end inquiring about something is just gaining more knowledge about a topic.

I personally think 2 years is enough time from their last known association with hacking.

 

Pretty much this, if it's not harmful to the community, than I don't think a ban should be warranted. If you're banned for advertising, spamming, flaming, etc. on an other website, you shouldn't be banned here, because you're not really a "threat." Offenses like scamming, phishing, etc. however could be threats to the community, and should be banned accordingly. Also, like many others are saying, I don't you should be banned for inquiring about RATs, Keyloggers, etc., unless there is actual proof you were doing something malicious.

 

Anything you do outside of Sythe shouldn't affect you here on Sythe.org

As long as it doesn't directly effect the users of Sythe, I don't see why blackhat hackers are banned if they haven't done anything to Sythe's users.

Also, I think it's fine to ban people if they are banned from a community for scamming.

 

Consider the fact that black-hat activities are normally worse than scamming. I'd throw ddosing, hacking(Rootkits/Keyloggers) and phising under blackhat, and they are actually a lot worse. Not only is it stealing, it's also breaking the law. That's a lot more serious.
Children will be children, sure they might scam a few mil here and there, Runescape is just a game to a child it doesn't mean anything, but it's the adults with the knowledge of performing serious criminal offences as such that I would deem to be the biggest threat.

Bit of a conflicting interest to support banning of scammers, but not of hackers. After all, they are both forms of stealing. The difference is one is performed primarily by illegal methods(hacking), whereas one isn't(scamming).

 

I have to agree with this. Consider the fact that I can face jail time for DDoSing a website or stealing personal information, but the most I can face for scamming Runescape gold is a Sythe ban. Those with the explicit interest and malicious intent to hack or those who have been involved in hacking should be banned. It doesn't matter if they have used it on Sythe members it's the fact that they have (or recently had) the capabilities and intent to harm another person. I can see how pirating a movie isn't that big of a deal, I mean everyone does it. The problem is people who spread RATs, keyloggers, and phish for identity theft reasons. I know people change, but I think there should be a minimum of 1 1/2 to 2 years statute of limitations on any malicious blackhat activity - including but not limited to spreading, helping people spread (through websites like spreadwithme), DDoSing, Coding and/or selling: FUD crytpers, DDoS software, RATs, keyloggers, phishing websites, or any software meant to damage, harm, interrupt normal activities, or steal personal information from a computer or a website (ie: facebook hacking, and such). I would rather have someone who stole a few mill runescape gold then someone who has a botnet and hacking tools at their disposal on Sythe.

Like e-whoring who really cares if someone is exploiting pedos for money, unless they are using it to spread malicious software. I share similar feelings with things like torrenting and blackhat SEO methods (like boosting scripts and stuff.) I mean as long as it isn't done to harm people.