Large Threads Should Be Re-Opened

[Grave]

I'm fine either way, but I'd just like to say that I've seen no negative outcomes from the threads being closed. I think everyone's overestimating how much views actually affects buyer's decisions: buyers won't simply forget who you are if you have a new thread, and your vouches and years of dedicated support won't simply disappear. However, this opinion may be biased, but I actually slightly prefer having new threads (even though one of my workers almost cried over it) because it represents who's actually active in the market as of now. It also gives new sellers an opportunity to get into the market without feeling like they're going against a major corporation. Isn't that what a community like Sythe is about?


(edit) After reading through the replies more thoroughly, it seems like the issue is with big old sellers vs. medium old sellers and medium sellers being able to keep their threads. Assuming the 50-page rule still continues though, it does slightly hinder the ability of the larger traders, and they will have to constantly create new threads while the medium sellers get to keep their average-sized thread over a prolonged period of time. Not sure if that's necessarily a bad thing though. I guess it just depends on which side you're on.

 

[Imagine]

Kinaesthic had the same problem - and it's even worse for him. Since you aren't allowed to vouch for graphics, he has to completely start over - with no rep at all.

Gold sales have some return customers, but graphics sales have a lot less - once you have a signature it takes a while before you want a new one.

Kinaesthic having very few replies on his thread makes users want to go to newer artists whose thread didn't get closed, etc.

You guys got lucky, but Kina just got flat out screwed over.

 

I've contacted Richard to clarify whether or not large threads can be reopened. He'll either post here directly or reply to my PM regarding the issue(which I'll reiterate here). Understand that ultimately we're looking to keep the site online as much as possible versus allowing a select few users massive threads. I know it's not exactly fair, but that's life to be frank. Thanks for your patience.

 

Neither the database nor the forum software is designed to cope with 100+ page threads. The problem gets worse the larger threads get. Think about it like this:
Imagine you have several libraries of books end to end, and each of these libraries has books added everyday without distinct cut-offs between the libraries. When people ask to see the end of a particular library (i.e. the end of a thread) the librarian (database) has to go through every book in the library in order to find the end of it.

Thus the longer the thread gets the more disk read and processing time it takes, exponentially. If we let the these threads grow to 150 pages or 200 pages the problem would not double, it would increase by an order of magnitude.

Therefore even though it is true we have fixed many of the IO problems I still think it's worth keeping threads limited to 50 pages to ensure site performance in the future.

As to shops: why not write how many trades you have had in the past in your topic title and link to the closed threads?

 

[Synful]

Neither the database nor the forum software is designed to cope with 100+ page threads. The problem gets worse the larger threads get. Think about it like this:
Imagine you have several libraries of books end to end, and each of these libraries has books added everyday without distinct cut-offs between the libraries. When people ask to see the end of a particular library (i.e. the end of a thread) the librarian (database) has to go through every book in the library in order to find the end of it.

Thus the longer the thread gets the more disk read and processing time it takes, exponentially. If we let the these threads grow to 150 pages or 200 pages the problem would not double, it would increase by an order of magnitude.

Therefore even though it is true we have fixed many of the IO problems I still think it's worth keeping threads limited to 50 pages to ensure site performance in the future.

As to shops: why not write how many trades you have had in the past in your topic title and link to the closed threads?

is it possible to some how have that thread redirected to the new fresh one?

 

[Grave]

Neither the database nor the forum software is designed to cope with 100+ page threads. The problem gets worse the larger threads get.

Would an upgrade to vB4 improve the issue at all, and/or is it planned in the near future?

 

Would an upgrade to vB4 improve the issue at all, and/or is it planned in the near future?

As far as I can see: no. It uses the same database and thread system.

 

[Got Weed]

The thread views and replies should transfer over to the new market threads, but not the replies. That's what everybody seems to be mad about, they aren't getting enough business because gold buyers dis-regard low reply/view threads

 

The thread views and replies should transfer over to the new market threads, but not the replies. That's what everybody seems to be mad about, they aren't getting enough business because gold buyers dis-regard low reply/view threads

Exactly how much business is being lost? Does anyone have some numbers?

 

[euan202]

but surely all of you guys are goin to have this arugment again when your threads get to big again just saying

 

[euan202]

and also surely soon some peoples vouches threads are goin to get to big then you will have to close them down

 

[kmjt]

Exactly how much business is being lost? Does anyone have some numbers?

It is the new users to this forum in particular. They don't understand what vouches are so most of the time new users and guests judge trust by the size of a thread; they assume if a thread is big the person can be trusted. I know I myself when I was new that is how I would look for people. I wouldn't even look at the titles I would just scroll down while looking at the thread sizes.

As far as numbers go, at this time last year I could get 50 posts a day and at most times I never needed to bump my thread because new users would pretty much keep me in the first page all day. Now I get around 12. Of course a lot is unrelated to thread size like not as many people buying and the beta though so it is hard to tell exactly what numbers mean.

Is there any way to make a thread appear larger than it actually is? For example my new small thread would say 6000 or w/e posts/views when really it is small? It is the illusion. Or is this not possible? I'm not sure how forums work.

 

[Lee Sin]

This is sort of irrelevant, but;

Most people i know that use Sythe, and others that have learnt about it are have mainly landed here due to the Runescape market. I'm not familiar with Sythe's traffic in relation to what sections are most active/popular, but from what people have told me, and I've seen its obvious that the Runescape sections hold the largest interest group.

When I first joined, and wanted to sell gold, having those large and highly viewed threads made it easy for me to feel safe/sell quickly. I was referred to this site by other friends, whom were referred to by others, all wanting to sell their gold. Each time being told, 'sell to so and so, they are trustworthy' etc. Having those views/pages gone for those sellers impacts them from the perspective of a new trader. If I had come to Sythe post prune phase, I wouldn't be as inclined to let go of my gold that easily.

 

[Karl]

Exactly how much business is being lost? Does anyone have some numbers?

Below are some figures we worked out the other day

Lets just show some facts and statistics
Page 1 of the Gold Selling section - Based on views - The OLD threads http://puu.sh/E9sz
Page 2 of the Gold selling section - Based on views - The NEW threads http://puu.sh/E9tA

Now lets look at those threads, and lets say.. with bias, that Grave, R2, Hahanerd, KMJT, and Arcus are the only noteable sellers there, this isn't true.. but lets just say that.
These guys are your competition, Less known in the market, less dedicated, long existing threads, large amount of posts and views - http://puu.sh/E9vb
You guys are on roughly 100-200 posts each, yet you're on par and almost beating them already on views, so don't say your not getting any custom, because you obviously are, your views are still high, you're still well known.
.

Here's the math.

KMJT

Big Thread
17 Months. 6.1k Replies, 144k views.

Small Thread
13 days 150 Replies 2.9k views

Big Thread - Average of 11.9 Replies per day. 282 Views per day.
Small Thread - Average of 11.5 Replies per day. 223 Views per day.

KMJT is overall doing the best from what I've seen. The market boomed on February 2011 and hundreds of replies, and possibly thousands of views, were added onto threads daily. Do the math, and KMJT's smaller thread should be averaging around 8-9 replies imo with the market weaker than before.

He gets the most views because he doesn't have a website. If someone wants to purchase gold off him, they have to either contact him on MSN and/or post on his thread.

Arcus

Big Thread
11 Months. 2.1k Replies. 76k views.

Small Thread
19 days 100 replies 2.45k views

Big Thread - Average of 6.3 Replies per day. 230 Views per day.
Small Thread - 5.2 Replies per day. 129 Views per day.

Arcus doesn't bump as often as KMJT or R2P, and people doesn't really need to look at his thread when they can go on his site. He still gets a decent amount of replies, even though I imagine most of his business is now done through his site. So to sum it up, his site, infrequent bumps, explains his low Views per day. I have no idea why his replies per day is strong.


R2P

Big Thread
17 months. 5k Replies. 200k views.

Small Thread
20 days 165 Replies 3.6k views

Big Thread - Average of 9.8 Replies per day. 392 Views per day.
Small Thread - 8.25 Replies per day. 180 Views per day.

Take note I started R2P on the 1st of 2011, divided his total views by 8000 replies. And I multiplied the answer by 5,000 to get a rough estimate.
I believe his customers go directly to his website (like arcus) which should have pushed his replies per day lower, but it only pushed the views down.

It was posted that people with 500+ Replies who had their threads untouched managed to get most of the new customers. Shine had his thread for 5 months, let's say 4 as it took him a while to start. In 4 months, he managed to get 500 replies and 9k views. That's an average of 4 replies per day, and 80 views per day. That is nothing compared to what you guys have been getting when you started out from a 0 reply thread.

KMJT was also hacked so that will have had an affect on sales.

The whole new people coming to RWT thing isn't exactly an issue, IMO. If you guys are as dedicated and active as you say you are, then you'll be above those who are currently working hard to get known, and then once they hit 50 pages, then their thread will be locked, and so on.

 

[kmjt]

I realize that, however it is very discouraging knowing that this form of seniority we earn will be stripped away from us as soon as we hit 50 pages. Over and over.

Also that isn't fair data because it is skewed. I was inactive for months at a time. I was also not merchanting for months at a time (strictly a farmer) yet compared to today (when I am merchanting and more active) my old thread still was more active, even when I wasn't. What does that tell you?

Getting hacked has very little to do with this since I am only talking about new users. The majority of new users will not know I was hacked so it should not effect their decision to use me. Realize that since I am 95% PA seller the majority of my sales are from new users.

 

I'm going to allow the reopening and continuation of (large) sales threads (vouches can still go into a set of threads capped at 50 pages.) We'll see how the server handles it for now. Strictly one large (i.e. over 50 page) thread per organization.

As I've discussed with some of you already, there is probably a technical solution that can be implemented to make vbulletin support unlimited sized threads, but it has to be coded from scratch, and neither I nor Matt have the time right now.

So we'll see how it goes.

Hope that helps,
Richard

 

[Lee Sin]

Sounds promising. Big sellers should be pleased.

 

[kmjt]

Thank you Richard.

 

Thank you Richard.

Np. Thanks for highlighting the issue.

 

[Karl]

I'm going to allow the reopening and continuation of (large) sales threads (vouches can still go into a set of threads capped at 50 pages.) We'll see how the server handles it for now. Strictly one large (i.e. over 50 page) thread per organization.

As I've discussed with some of you already, there is probably a technical solution that can be implemented to make vbulletin support unlimited sized threads, but it has to be coded from scratch, and neither I nor Matt have the time right now.

So we'll see how it goes.

Hope that helps,
Richard

Those who wish to have their threads re-opened, please report it and Staff will open them.

I'll go ahead and close this now.