Is RWT Breaking RL Rules?

[Merch Clans]

Is RWT Breaking RL Laws?
Getting banned on runescape doesn't count.

 

[Swadq]

Pretty sure IRL rules are called "laws".

It might depend on your country, but in 99% (if not 100%) of them, the answer would be no.

Obviously, IANAL

 

[XWX]

I seriously doubt it. It's your money, what does it matter what you spend it on?

 

[YoHoJo]

No. There is no law anywhere saying that you can't trade digital items for currency.

 

[Xier0]

Not specifically, you could get in trouble for breaching the Jagex terms and conditions, but 100 million accounts have, no one's going to court.

 

[YoHoJo]

Not specifically, you could get in trouble for breaching the Jagex terms and conditions, but 100 million accounts have, no one's going to court.

Jagex's terms and conditions are not actual laws.
Only Jagex can punish you for breaking their terms and conditions, but they can't take any legal action for it.

 

[MuayThaiBro]

pretty sure it's not illegal

 

[bam92992]

Pretty sure it would only become an issue if your earnings are not reported to the IRS (depending on where you live I would assume.) I'm assuming lots of people don't though.

 

Pretty sure it would only become an issue if your earnings are not reported to the IRS (depending on where you live I would assume.) I'm assuming lots of people don't though.

^This, if you make above a certain amount you're technically required to report your earnings to the IRS. While most people don't(and get away with it), if you start actively trading large amounts and making sizable profits its probably a smart thing to do.

And no, breaking Jagex's terms of service is not illegal.

 

[jaspermaths2]

Jagex's terms and conditions are not actual laws.
Only Jagex can punish you for breaking their terms and conditions, but they can't take any legal action for it.

you sir are an idiot, jagex can take civil action against you for breaching their tos which you agreed to when you made your account. Will they take action against you? probably not, not only does it look bad for them as a company to sue minors but it is also very expensive to pursue cases. They will possibly send a c&d which they have done plenty of times in the past but meh, c&ds aren't worth the paper they are written on.

 

[YoHoJo]

you sir are an idiot, jagex can take civil action against you for breaching their tos which you agreed to when you made your account. Will they take action against you? probably not, not only does it look bad for them as a company to sue minors but it is also very expensive to pursue cases. They will possibly send a c&d which they have done plenty of times in the past but meh, c&ds aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Have some respect for people when talking to them, don't be so rude.

As far as I know my statements were correct, if you think/feel otherwise then go ahead and let people know in a mature fashion.

Can you tell/show me what actual laws are being broken by breaching a TOS for a video game?


Either way IF it even is illegal, Jagex would not take any action against any small-fries like us anyways, because as you said it's just not all all worth it for them. They would go only after the big guys making millions. Ex: Snellman Brothers

 

[XWX]

you sir are an idiot, jagex can take civil action against you for breaching their tos which you agreed to when you made your account. Will they take action against you? probably not, not only does it look bad for them as a company to sue minors but it is also very expensive to pursue cases. They will possibly send a c&d which they have done plenty of times in the past but meh, c&ds aren't worth the paper they are written on.

For Real World-Trading, no.

Here's a page explaining what RTW is listing examples as well as punishments (all of which talk nothing of legal action):
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Real_world_trading

Jagex official statements on virtual currencies & respective ownership:
http://www.jagex.com/g=runescape/terms/terms.ws#virtual_currencies

Even reading through the Code of Conduct nothing points to legal action when it comes to RWT'ing, only in-game consequences.


So unless you can actually come up with statements by Jagex that clearly state they hold the right to take legal action against an account participating in RWT'ing, then we'll all know that "you sir" are full of shit.

 

[Loneliness]

I doubt Jagex will file a lawsuit against you for just RWT

 

[AssassinMax]

This is illegal, you are buying and selling copyrighted material without the permission of the owner. While jagex rarely takes any to court for rwt, they have all rights to do so if they feel like.

 

[HNCdice]

This is illegal, you are buying and selling copyrighted material without the permission of the owner. While jagex rarely takes any to court for rwt, they have all rights to do so if they feel like.

exactly this. the same as how they took down gold4rs, and other similar websites. RWT violates copyright laws, and also, according to jagex, "makes JaGeX lose business" so they could also sue for loss of profit. The might do this to 1/1000000000 people. So dont worry mate.

It also depends on what Country you live in. In some countries, such rights to sue are not availble. So best is too google it!

 

[jaspermaths2]

Have some respect for people when talking to them, don't be so rude.

As far as I know my statements were correct, if you think/feel otherwise then go ahead and let people know in a mature fashion.

Can you tell/show me what actual laws are being broken by breaching a TOS for a video game?

As far as you know, are you a lawyer? If not don't state your opinions as facts. Try reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(common_law) before commenting further.

 

[YoHoJo]

As far as you know, are you a lawyer? If not don't state your opinions as facts. Try reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(common_law) before commenting further.

I highly doubt anyone reading this thread is a lawyer.

Shut the fuck up with your fucking attitude.
[OPINION]I really doesn't matter how smart or knowledgeable you are (or think you are) if you're just an asshole.
Let's try having a grown-up conversation about it?

The fact of the matter is, in cases such as this (breaching a website's ToS, especially for a dinky video game) the lines are very blurred between what is and isn't legal. Cases like there are fairly new and not very common, so the outcome varies a lot.

However OP (and 95%+ of the people here) are just selling small amounts of gold to each other for a few bucks, there is no way Jagex would take any legal action against them, it wouldn't be worth their time, effort, or money.

Jagex makes over £45,000,000 in revenue annually, they are not going to bother taking someone to court for anything under a few $10,000s of dollars(or more), and the number of people here on Sythe making that much I'd say is under 30 users easily. The average users here have absolutely no need at all to be worried about legal action, if they did then a lot of people wouldn't be selling and buying gold at all.

MAYBE if you are a big gold flipping company making tens of thousands of dollars a month then Jagex would do something about it, but as far as I know no big gold flipper has ever been under any legal trouble either.

Now if you are goldfarming HEAVILY (that is running maybe 50+ bots) and selling the gold you earn from this, THEN yes Jagex can take legal action against you.
It's the bot creators and huge gold-farmers who need to worry about legal action from Jagex.
See:
http://services.runescape.com/m=news/bot-busting-update-legal-proceedings
http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/02/12/Cheaters.pdf

Unless you are making such a big impact such that

As a result, Jagex spends
considerable amounts of employee time, computational resources, and money to resolve user
complaints, the value of which exceeds $5,000.

Which unless you created and distribute a bot, or goldfarm on a large scale you won't be doing, you will be fine.

Basically bot makers and massive gold farmers are actually hindering Jagex's profits enough to make a reasonable dent in their earnings and have them take you to court.


So to answer OP's question:
Sure, Jagex can take you to court for GoldFarming and Bottting, but only if you are doing it on such a huge scale that it's actually making a noticeable impact on their earnings.
Does this apply do the average user/botter/gold trader? No not at all.[/OPINION]


Gee Golly Josh, I hope JasperMaths2 sees my opinion tags and doesn't yell at me!
I'm just stating my opinion on the mater as best I can to help out and answer the OP's question.
There is no need to be an ass and attack me for it, if you'd like to correct me or shed some light on the topic yourself just do it in a polite mature manner.

 

[The_RS_BJ]

nah just in game rules

 

[jaspermaths2]

I highly doubt anyone reading this thread is a lawyer.

Shut the fuck up with your fucking attitude.
[OPINION]I really doesn't matter how smart or knowledgeable you are (or think you are) if you're just an asshole.
Let's try having a grown-up conversation about it?

The fact of the matter is, in cases such as this (breaching a website's ToS, especially for a dinky video game) the lines are very blurred between what is and isn't legal. Cases like there are fairly new and not very common, so the outcome varies a lot.

However OP (and 95%+ of the people here) are just selling small amounts of gold to each other for a few bucks, there is no way Jagex would take any legal action against them, it wouldn't be worth their time, effort, or money.

Jagex makes over £45,000,000 in revenue annually, they are not going to bother taking someone to court for anything under a few $10,000s of dollars(or more), and the number of people here on Sythe making that much I'd say is under 30 users easily. The average users here have absolutely no need at all to be worried about legal action, if they did then a lot of people wouldn't be selling and buying gold at all.

MAYBE if you are a big gold flipping company making tens of thousands of dollars a month then Jagex would do something about it, but as far as I know no big gold flipper has ever been under any legal trouble either.

Now if you are goldfarming HEAVILY (that is running maybe 50+ bots) and selling the gold you earn from this, THEN yes Jagex can take legal action against you.
It's the bot creators and huge gold-farmers who need to worry about legal action from Jagex.
See:
http://services.runescape.com/m=news/bot-busting-update-legal-proceedings
http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/02/12/Cheaters.pdf

Unless you are making such a big impact such that


Which unless you created and distribute a bot, or goldfarm on a large scale you won't be doing, you will be fine.

Basically bot makers and massive gold farmers are actually hindering Jagex's profits enough to make a reasonable dent in their earnings and have them take you to court.


So to answer OP's question:
Sure, Jagex can take you to court for GoldFarming and Bottting, but only if you are doing it on such a huge scale that it's actually making a noticeable impact on their earnings.
Does this apply do the average user/botter/gold trader? No not at all.[/OPINION]


Gee Golly Josh, I hope JasperMaths2 sees my opinion tags and doesn't yell at me!
I'm just stating my opinion on the mater as best I can to help out and answer the OP's question.
There is no need to be an ass and attack me for it, if you'd like to correct me or shed some light on the topic yourself just do it in a polite mature manner.

so basically you stated your opinion as fact and then get angry because someone calls you out on it. OP didn't mention anything about amounts or spread. You answered his question incorrectly and now you are trying to qualify your shit input with more shit, confusing the issue further. Now please kindly be quite, as his question has been answered by someone who consulted a lawyer (hint it isn't you).

 

[YoHoJo]

so basically you stated your opinion as fact and then get angry because someone calls you out on it. OP didn't mention anything about amounts or spread. You answered his question incorrectly and now you are trying to qualify your shit input with more shit, confusing the issue further. Now please kindly be quite, as his question has been answered by someone who consulted a lawyer (hint it isn't you).

Not mad because I was 'called out' mad because you're being an ass.

I stated my opinion as fact because as far as I know it was/is the truth, if you feel otherwise or that I've misspoken, are free to correct me. I'm not here trying to misinform people, I'm trying to help as best I can.

No he didn't give large amounts (nor did he give small amounts) and my long post above gave answers for both situations. I said on my long post, unless you are doing multi-thousand dollar trades, you will be fine, and there are under ~30 people here who fall under that category and I highly doubt OP will be doing something that big.

I didn't confuse anything further, and I didn't post 'shit' my long post clarified things more. There are two answers to the question: If you are doing small trades you're safe, if you're doing huge farming/botting you might get sued.

So we were both correct depending on which scenario is taking place.

I'm just trying to help and be constructive as best I can, I don't claim any of my posts to be fact, just my opinions/answers to the best of the knowledge to help out.

It looks like you're just here to throw dirt and start arguments.
You came here completely unprovoked and just started flaming like a madman.

There is no need to get so angry and cruse and cause a ruckus, we're all just here to try and help.