Is College Becoming Obsolete?

[Snoopchicken]

Hi everyone, I just would like to know your opinions on our current education system.

It seems that being in the Information Age only makes it easier for us to learn at home. I personally was able to understand concepts over the Internet sometimes even better than in the classroom.

But then again, college is filled with other life aspects that the Internet cannot offer - for example, it increases sociability.

It also provides a 'hands-on' experience (such as labs) for various 'vague' topics.

However, a business degree (for example), can simply be learned all at home (and most of it is logic, really). One can start a business without getting a business degree (I have).

But then there are those degrees which enhance our credibility and trust that only college can provide, such as a medical degree. I definitely wouldn't want to have a doctor operating on me if he/she learned all he/she knows through the Internet.

So what are you views on college? Are you okay with the system as it is? Do you think we need some slight reform? Or do you think the whole system is pointless?

 

[BroLy Bro]

I think it's too expensive, especially for "business" courses. The whole aspect of business is a joke. It's not challenging at all and CEO's get paid way too much for the little they contribute to society.

 

[Snoopchicken]

I think it's too expensive, especially for "business" courses. The whole aspect of business is a joke. It's not challenging at all and CEO's get paid way too much for the little they contribute to society.

Okay. You're right, it can be a little too expensive, especially when the information (business courses) is not something that can't be taught by a mediocre college.

What about med courses? To finish med school will cost significantly higher than finishing business. Do you think it's worth it?

My cousin is going to a good med school (not the best) and will be $250,000 in debt once he's done. Is the college overcharging him?

 

[Annex]

Uhh no way is it becoming obsolete, its become nearly essential to getting a job. There are very few fields you can get into anymore that don't require at least a bachelor's degree in a relevant subject and offer a decent wage.

 

[BroLy Bro]

Okay. You're right, it can be a little too expensive, especially when the information (business courses) is not something that can't be taught by a mediocre college.

What about med courses? To finish med school will cost significantly higher than finishing business. Do you think it's worth it?

My cousin is going to a good med school (not the best) and will be $250,000 in debt once he's done. Is the college overcharging him?

I don't really know how much colleges should charge. One of my philosophy teachers has a friend who is a brain surgeon. As soon as he finished school he got a job making $700,000 a year. I don't know what his school fees came up to but I think in his case it was worth it.

 

[Stxtch]

I would say that only the first two years of college are the obsolete years. The only virtue from the first two years is that it gives you time to figure out what you want to major in. Otherwise, it is just completely pointless and they are overcharging for your degree.

 

[Snoopchicken]

Uhh no way is it becoming obsolete, its become nearly essential to getting a job. There are very few fields you can get into anymore that don't require at least a bachelor's degree in a relevant subject and offer a decent wage.

Okay. Do you mind listing some of the majors which you believe college is essential for?

Also, do you think there are majors which are pointless, in a way?

I don't really know how much colleges should charge. One of my philosophy teachers has a friend who is a brain surgeon. As soon as he finished school he got a job making $700,000 a year. I don't know what his school fees came up to but I think in his case it was worth it.

But it could also go the other way around, no? I know an anesthetic who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on getting his degree, and right now he's jobless and still in debt.

I would say that only the first two years of college are the obsolete years. The only virtue from the first two years is that it gives you time to figure out what you want to major in. Otherwise, it is just completely pointless and they are overcharging for your degree.

So do you think it'd be a good idea to charge significantly less per credit for freshman courses?

 

[woodcut ox]

So do you think it'd be a good idea to charge significantly less per credit for freshman courses?

I think they shouldn't charge you much at all for your generals, and payment should be on the complexity of the class.

 

[Stxtch]

So do you think it'd be a good idea to charge significantly less per credit for freshman courses?

I'm with woodcut ox on this one. Unless you go in to college with your major in mind, they shouldn't charge you very much for any class unless it pertains to your major.

 

[Snoopchicken]

Yes, I agree as well. I definitely think the prices of freshman courses should be significantly lower than major courses. Although they normally are lower, it's only by a minuscule amount.

You guys argued that the price should be determined based on the complexity of the course. How would you be able to come up with a definition for the complexity of a certain course that everyone (or most) will agree with? Would it be based on the workload? Or the level of analysis needed during exams? The first question generally pertains to medical students, whilst the second to engineering students.

Or do you think the average salary of the major itself should be taken into consideration? Someone earlier mentioned that whilst medical school may be expensive, it's generally worth it in the end. Do you think this is a good reason to justify why it's expensive?

 

[Emperor Nero]

I don't see your argument. Are you telling me that you can teach yourself Theoretical Physics? Non-Euclidean Geometry? Renaissance Literature and Art? You go to college to become a well rounded citizen and to learn things that one cannot teach themselves. There are course that aren't necessarily important to take in-class but when you get towards the end of your degree when the classes really begin to get major specific you aren't going to be able to teach yourself that. I want a doctor that is trained by an experienced medical professional and not one that got his degree off the internet.

 

[woodcut ox]

Yes, I agree as well. I definitely think the prices of freshman courses should be significantly lower than major courses. Although they normally are lower, it's only by a minuscule amount.

You guys argued that the price should be determined based on the complexity of the course. How would you be able to come up with a definition for the complexity of a certain course that everyone (or most) will agree with? Would it be based on the workload? Or the level of analysis needed during exams? The first question generally pertains to medical students, whilst the second to engineering students.

Or do you think the average salary of the major itself should be taken into consideration? Someone earlier mentioned that whilst medical school may be expensive, it's generally worth it in the end. Do you think this is a good reason to justify why it's expensive?

I think we can all agree that becoming a doctor is much more of a challenge then getting a degree in business, as for the definition you would need to factor in work load, the intelligence required to not just learn, but understand what your being taught. Anyone can memorize that the collarbone is the most common broken bone, but knowing why and how it breaks is the hard part (not the "accident" itself but stress factors and such).
Then you got things where the "general" population is bad at lets say math. So things like accounting, chemistry, and any other number heavy related jobs are more "difficult" for the general population. If most people struggle with something then there are people who excel there generalized as "smarter" and the harder the task the harder it is to teach others about it.
I guess what im saying is that majority of people know that becoming a doctor, lawyer, chemists, accountant, etc.. is much harder to achieve then lets say mechanic, machinist, retail store owner (not that any of these are easy because there not), and these can be shown by the number of people in the field of work.

 

[Snoopchicken]

I don't see your argument. Are you telling me that you can teach yourself Theoretical Physics? Non-Euclidean Geometry? Renaissance Literature and Art? You go to college to become a well rounded citizen and to learn things that one cannot teach themselves. There are course that aren't necessarily important to take in-class but when you get towards the end of your degree when the classes really begin to get major specific you aren't going to be able to teach yourself that. I want a doctor that is trained by an experienced medical professional and not one that got his degree off the internet.

I'm not making an argument, I'm presenting views. The purpose of the thread is to gather opinions, not convince you of mine.

Concepts learned in business, for example, can be learned on the Internet. Concepts learned in Computer Science, for example, can be learned on the Internet.

However, as you said, some things cannot be learned on the Internet (as efficiently as learning them in college). I personally have a Bachelors Degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering. There's no way the Internet would have been able to teach me what I learned in college.

I already agreed to what you're saying. I too said I would prefer a doctor that went to medical school rather than one who trained himself/herself over the Internet.

I think we can all agree that becoming a doctor is much more of a challenge then getting a degree in business, as for the definition you would need to factor in work load, the intelligence required to not just learn, but understand what your being taught. Anyone can memorize that the collarbone is the most common broken bone, but knowing why and how it breaks is the hard part (not the "accident" itself but stress factors and such).
Then you got things where the "general" population is bad at lets say math. So things like accounting, chemistry, and any other number heavy related jobs are more "difficult" for the general population. If most people struggle with something then there are people who excel there generalized as "smarter" and the harder the task the harder it is to teach others about it.
I guess what im saying is that majority of people know that becoming a doctor, lawyer, chemists, accountant, etc.. is much harder to achieve then lets say mechanic, machinist, retail store owner (not that any of these are easy because there not), and these can be shown by the number of people in the field of work.

Yes, I understand what you're saying. I also guess that the fact that some majors are harder to get into (for example, it's harder to get into electrical engineering than political science) also accounts for the consensus of what's difficult and what's not.

 

[Noob]

I don't believe college is becoming obsolete, but some professions are, lets say an astronomer, there are already "robots" doing that job, looking for stuff in the universe, and they do it x100 times better than a human astronomer.

My point is that technology is taking a lot of careers , soon enough we will have robot doctors, and teachers

 

[Snoopchicken]

I don't believe college is becoming obsolete, but some professions are, lets say an astronomer, there are already "robots" doing that job, looking for stuff in the universe, and they do it x100 times better than a human astronomer.

My point is that technology is taking a lot of careers , soon enough we will have robot doctors, and teachers

That's an interesting point. Essentially, you're saying robots (which are created by engineers) are replacing trained/educated humans. What puzzles me is that despite this trend, engineering majors are still not popular among college students: http://static1.businessinsider.com/...e-most-popular-major-in-the-united-states.jpg.

It is, in fact, mostly business related degrees which are.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I don't believe college is becoming obsolete, but some professions are, lets say an astronomer, there are already "robots" doing that job, looking for stuff in the universe, and they do it x100 times better than a human astronomer.

My point is that technology is taking a lot of careers , soon enough we will have robot doctors, and teachers

You have it wrong though. Robots can gather and process information but they can't grasp advanced concepts or imagine. One of the most important things about a human is the ability to imagine and think abstractly. Robots cannot think in abstract terms, that would mean they have achieved sentient abilities and they are a VERY LONG way away from achieving that. You still need an astronomer to process abstract information because a robot can't think of theorems or hypothesis on the nature of things. Now trade jobs like welders are going by the wayside because that can be robotized.

 

[Finecon]

I don't believe college is becoming obsolete, but some professions are, lets say an astronomer, there are already "robots" doing that job, looking for stuff in the universe, and they do it x100 times better than a human astronomer.

My point is that technology is taking a lot of careers , soon enough we will have robot doctors, and teachers

"Robots" are not replacing human astronomers and are definitely not doing their job...that sounds like something from a movie.

I'm assuming the "robots" you're speaking of are the tools human astronomers use to study different aspects of the universe. Without the human astronomers and their astronomy college degrees, such tools/"robots" would be useless.

Just because the information age is giving an easier access to a wide array of knowledge to the general population doesn't mean college is becoming obsolete. College degrees essentially prove to employers that you have fulfilled certain qualifications and learned key materials on your specified field. For example, the rise of the information age isn't going to render a Carnegie Mellon CS degree or a Harvard Law degree obsolete, despite the fact that information regarding law and computer science is more easily accessible by the public. That being said, the information age has paved the way for online colleges which can provide online degrees (we can pretty much agree that such degrees have limited prestige, however).

 

[Annex]

Okay. Do you mind listing some of the majors which you believe college is essential for?

Also, do you think there are majors which are pointless, in a way?

I think university/college is essential for most careers like skilled trades (need at least some college time to get your trade cert), anything pertaining to science or mathematics needs a MINIMUM of a Bachelors for basic entry jobs. In fact I think its easier to list those that don't require a degree such as heavy equipment operator, computer programming (they still allow some self taught people), business and records keeper/librarian.

 

[Snoopchicken]

"Robots" are not replacing human astronomers and are definitely not doing their job...that sounds like something from a movie.

I'm assuming the "robots" you're speaking of are the tools human astronomers use to study different aspects of the universe. Without the human astronomers and their astronomy college degrees, such tools/"robots" would be useless.

Just because the information age is giving an easier access to a wide array of knowledge to the general population doesn't mean college is becoming obsolete. College degrees essentially prove to employers that you have fulfilled certain qualifications and learned key materials on your specified field. For example, the rise of the information age isn't going to render a Carnegie Mellon CS degree or a Harvard Law degree obsolete, despite the fact that information regarding law and computer science is more easily accessible by the public. That being said, the information age has paved the way for online colleges which can provide online degrees (we can pretty much agree that such degrees have limited prestige, however).

So essentially, you're saying that in most cases, robots are created to work hand in hand with humans, not to replace, correct? I agree with that personally.

And yes, your other point makes sense - a college degree shows that a certain person has met certain qualifications. And I presume the validity of an online degree is questionable because, for example, it may be extremely simple to cheat during online exams. So in essence, it does appear that the Information Age isn't really affecting college negatively.

I think university/college is essential for most careers like skilled trades (need at least some college time to get your trade cert), anything pertaining to science or mathematics needs a MINIMUM of a Bachelors for basic entry jobs. In fact I think its easier to list those that don't require a degree such as heavy equipment operator, computer programming (they still allow some self taught people), business and records keeper/librarian.

Yes, I pretty much agree with all of this. I personally have a couple of friends who learned programming on their own (and I have self taught myself some PHP, but am definitely no expert), and they seem to be capable of working for a company, so I'm sure that, as you said, there are still companies which hire computer programmers based on their work/skills, rather than if they have a degree or not.

 

[stringcheese]

College is not going ANYWHERE. If anything, it is a popular growing trend if you want to have a white collar job. Of course there are people who are jobless after college but if you do not pursue a college degree, your chances are slimmer. Most people are now pursing their Masters degrees as they believe a BA/BS is not enough.

To answer your question: No, college is here to stay.