I Propose Re-Organizing the Forums

[Deacon Frost]

I still feel that Sythe is a socially controlled forum. News is something that is important to this forum. I feel like it should be first.

@Nick - I have seen about 10 suggestions all saying the same thing. I think we should leave forum format discussion to SuF's post for now. His is an OFFICIAL post. I feel like all these other suggestions that are just based on SuF's should be PM'ed to him or posted on his thread....


EDIT: Also, for those active users that are too lazy to scroll down a few pixels and want a millisecond faster access to the Runescape Market can collapse the community threads by clicking the arrow here:

EDIT #2: Also, go to the homepage really quick and litterally see how far from the top the Runescape Market is. Literally the slightest scroll down will reveal its presence. Also, when you first click the sythe homepage, you kind of HAVE to scroll down anyway, because the only visable threads are the Rules and Donation redirect links, which are NOT moving. So new user will most likely see the RS Marketplace. (Please actually go to the homepage and see for yourself)

I hadn't seen SuF's thread until you pointed it out. I don't care about the individual organization of each particular forum. Merely the organization of the categories as a whole to appeal to the new user base. Just because his thread is 'OFFICIAL' does not make my point less valid. You're the one claiming to have rights to forums yet you seek to demean a researched suggestion that has great merit?

I think you underestimate the average new visitor. They aren't going to minimize forums, they aren't going to scroll down to find what they're looking for... if it's not presented to them quickly and easily... they leave. That's the reason for this entire premise.

I actually support removing the link to the rules and donation center from the top as those two give off a vibe to the forum that hurt it more than they help. Posting the rules at the top suggests to new visitors that we have constant rule breakers and we need to enforce those immediately. Instead, require new users to agree to the rules before posting. That way any confusion can be cleared up with infractions or bannings. Simple and effective without sending the wrong message.

For donations being at the top, it suggests begging. You don't present first-time visitors with a request for money, you just don't. I would never visit this forum for the first time in its current state, simply because it has no immediate appeal. The donations can be effectively sent to new users via a welcome e-mail which gives them a sense of comfort and appropriate leadership. By doing so in an e-mail, you can also draw more traffic to the donations page by explaining what they're for, how they benefit from donating, and a lot of other useful information.

There's lots of sciences behind all of this Anet, you're disagreeing from personal opinion and lack of information. I really think if you knew more you'd understand and accept my premise.

 

[Anet390]

I hadn't seen SuF's thread until you pointed it out. I don't care about the individual organization of each particular forum. Merely the organization of the categories as a whole to appeal to the new user base. Just because his thread is 'OFFICIAL' does not make my point less valid. You're the one claiming to have rights to forums yet you seek to demean a researched suggestion that has great merit?

I think you underestimate the average new visitor. They aren't going to minimize forums, they aren't going to scroll down to find what they're looking for... if it's not presented to them quickly and easily... they leave. That's the reason for this entire premise.

I actually support removing the link to the rules and donation center from the top as those two give off a vibe to the forum that hurt it more than they help. Posting the rules at the top suggests to new visitors that we have constant rule breakers and we need to enforce those immediately. Instead, require new users to agree to the rules before posting. That way any confusion can be cleared up with infractions or bannings. Simple and effective without sending the wrong message.

For donations being at the top, it suggests begging. You don't present first-time visitors with a request for money, you just don't. I would never visit this forum for the first time in its current state, simply because it has no immediate appeal. The donations can be effectively sent to new users via a welcome e-mail which gives them a sense of comfort and appropriate leadership. By doing so in an e-mail, you can also draw more traffic to the donations page by explaining what they're for, how they benefit from donating, and a lot of other useful information.

There's lots of sciences behind all of this Anet, you're disagreeing from personal opinion and lack of information. I really think if you knew more you'd understand and accept my premise.

As for the collapsing forums, reread my post. I stated for the ACTIVE users that u said would like quicker access to the RS market forum.

Seriously, now you are just making wacko accusations. Having the rules at the top of the page shows that we are a clean forum that abides by and enforces the rules. As for the Donations, it does not in anyway make us look desprite. I could see how you think that though. I am not under estimating the average new user, I am just saying that they will MOST LIKELY scroll down the slightest bit, which in turn would reveal the RS market forum. As for OFFICIAL, I never said it makes yours less valid, I just stated that suggestions like this would be better suited for his thread. You are trying to make Sythe something that it isnt. Forums that dont have the news at the top look very sloppy. It creates the vibe of "this forum isnt organized" and it isnt social. You are comparing Sythe to other forums. But we are our own unique forum. We do things different, and those things are what attract new users. Honestly when I clicked that forum link you posted to that one forum, it looked really sloppy and looked like a forum that Sythe users would not enjoy. What makes Sythe so unique is the way we are orginized and the way we keep our community together. I think the sythe community is more important than the Marketplace. because without the community, there would be not mods to mod the marketplace. There would be no people to trade with. As for Suggestions, suggestions will increase immensly if we relocate the forum to a less noticable place. The suggestion thread also lets new users know that we are always striving to be the best we can.

Thanks,
Anet390/Andrew

 

[SuF]

I can accept moving aspects of the community sections to the bottom, such as the dispute forum. We can also combine feedback and suggestions to make it smaller. Donations can move to the header. The rules can then join that community category.

I believe it's important to leave the Rules, News, Community General and suggestions / feedback at the top because that is really what sets us apart from other sites. We actually have a strong community and people are here for more than just the market. We can't cater simply to gaining new members. We have to think about our current member base as well and balance the needs of both.

 

[Anet390]

I can accept moving aspects of the community sections to the bottom, such as the dispute forum. We can also combine feedback and suggestions to make it smaller. Donations can move to the header. The rules can then join that community category.

I believe it's important to leave the Rules, News, Community General and suggestions / feedback at the top because that is really what sets us apart from other sites. We actually have a strong community and people are here for more than just the market. We can't cater simply to gaining new members. We have to think about our current member base as well and balance the needs of both.

Well Said. This was basically the point I was trying to get across the whole time. I was always open for change. Just not moving the Community forum from the top. As I stated two posts above, putting our community first is what makes Sythe the forum we are. Active Members are important to keeping the forum active as well as new members. But if you lose the active members, you are bound to lose new members. This is why i disagreed with the moving of the Community Section. I like the idea of merging Suggestions and Feedback though.

 

[Brendan]

• Wording is everything, so the use of words like 'General' can actually decrease activity in the specific forum. Use less ambiguous words (IE Programming Discussion rather than Programming General).
• Frequently update the order to accommodate to a changing market. If the majority of your ratio lies in forum in fifth place with a declining ratio in 2nd place, allow a re-order based on current ratios.

I feel most inclined to agree with these two points. You're correct when it comes to wording. "General" is used almost all over the forums and it does look quite amateurish. Wouldn't mind seeing an update to the captions/forum names all around.

 

[Deacon Frost]

I can accept moving aspects of the community sections to the bottom, such as the dispute forum. We can also combine feedback and suggestions to make it smaller. Donations can move to the header. The rules can then join that community category.

I believe it's important to leave the Rules, News, Community General and suggestions / feedback at the top because that is really what sets us apart from other sites. We actually have a strong community and people are here for more than just the market. We can't cater simply to gaining new members. We have to think about our current member base as well and balance the needs of both.

Sure, however, the active users understand the forum a little more than new users do. Appealing to new users by putting what they're here for at the top, we encourage them to return.

Putting the community at the bottom, you focus on what's going to drive traffic, but the active members can still find it easily.

While the community is important and does have its benefits, it's not going to be the most important aspect to driving traffic. "Come for the Markets, Stay for the Community" is a more friendly appeal to new users telling them what we have, and that we have more to offer as well.

The positioning isn't important to repeat users, it's important to retaining new users. Sythe isn't immune to marketing techniques and it's definitely not going to last forever because of the community. We have to think rationally about this and incorporate tactics that are proven effective for the even most popular of websites.

I feel most inclined to agree with these two points. You're correct when it comes to wording. "General" is used almost all over the forums and it does look quite amateurish. Wouldn't mind seeing an update to the captions/forum names all around.

That is definitely true. Not only do a majority of people ignore the captions, they're actually not useful as is. Some websites use short, and simple captions, or include brief 2 word captions in the forum title itself. This is the best way for optimizing a particular forum.


Here are a few forums that place their biggest selling point at the top, and the community at the bottom. While retaining a very solid user base, they also have an active community.

http://warriorforums.com - The best example of simplicity. They are rated in the top 500 of alexa's websites, and are the number 1 forum on the webs. Their setup removes any chances of misinterpretation, their organization gives what first time visitors want to see, and their design is simple enough that you're not confused. They even get away with a name that doesn't cover their niche.

http://codingforums.com - Coding forums is a less registered forum, but their setup is effective. The majority of visitors to this site are guests that return on a frequent basis. They utilize the top for Javascript help, and the bottom for the community. Notice the use of black on yellow for categories, studies show this is the most effective way of drawing attention to something.

Also, they don't cater to additional, unnecessary off-topic conversation or general conversation. It's proven that if you provide a general area for discussion, the specific areas will be less popular. Force users to use a specific section, and don't provide any possibility of confusion. Sythe has a Runescape market and a Runescape section... while it can work alright, it makes it much more confusing than it needs to be. Merge the market into the section, don't leave it separate causing those interested in RS to use two different sections.

http://forums.digitalpoint.org - Notice their community section setup, this would be a very great way to setup Sythe's community area. Also notice the top forums' description, and titles. The way they draw you in is effective if you're looking for that (which that is their main niche market).

http://www.minecraftforum.net/forum - While they are almost doing it well, they actually lack in a lot of things. Their sections are disorganized, but they did put the most important section at top.


My general suggestion for Sythe:

:: Runescape Market (As Organized by SuF)
- Runescape Discussion (Link to 'Runescape Discussion' Category)

:: Market Tools (As Organized by SuF)

:: MMORPG Markets (As Organized by SuF)

:: Trading Post - Trade Your Non-MMO Items ("Other Markets" As Organized by SuF)
- Graphics

:: Runescape Discussion
- Runescape Market (Link to 'Runescape Market' Category)
- Runescape Cheating
-& Scar/Simba
-&+ Coding Assistance
-&+ Script Requests
- Runescape Guides
- Runescape Mini Games and PvP
- Runescape Media
- Runescape Private Servers
- Runescape Classic

:: Gaming
- Computer Gaming
-& WoW
-& Diablo
-& Minecraft
- XBOX Gaming
- Playstation Gaming
- Indie Games

:: Community Support
- Sythe.org Support (<a href>Live Chat</a>)
- Tutorials and E-Books (Previously Guides)
- Personal Finance Advice (Previously Assets and Investment)
- Personal Support

:: Community Discussion
- General Discussion (The one time it's okay to be ambiguous)
-& SPAM
- Controversial and Intellectual (Previously SFA)
- Media (Previously Music & Movies/Television & Video Clips)
- Graphics and Design
-& Help and Tutorials
- Private Lounge - <a href>Click Here to Donate</a> (Previously Donator Lounge, show the forum and a link to donate)

:: Community Information
- Introductions and Greetings
- Suggestions and Feedback
- Sythe.org News and Announcements
-& Archives
-& Disputes (Link)

Key:
:: = Category
- = Top-Level Forum
-& = Sub-Forum
-&+ = Sub-Sub-Forum


The things you'll notice I've changed are massive, and I know a lot of people will not agree with these changes. Below I'll outline some of the decisions made:

1. Programming removed - Sythe isn't about programming and the section has never been popular enough to merit activity. I love the section, but it's not worth keeping.

2. Graphics minimized - Graphics hasn't maintained a solid momentum to maintain activity, and an extra category is expensive to size. Moving it to discussion puts it where it should be.

3. Graphics market in other markets - Obviously, if the graphics area is being minimized, then this need to go there.

4. Renamed SFA - It was too ambiguous and pointless.

5. Spam is no longer top level - it's my favorite section, but it sends an immature message.

6. Media combined - Combining everything will increase the number of threads in the section, whereby reducing the evidence of less active parts.

7. Sports removed - These topics should fall under general discussion. They don't need to be separated to give way to a less active section.

8. Scar merged - Moving this section into RS gives it a more solid purpose, and activates a key importance in the RS section.

9. Community Support - Merged all the guides and organized for ease of use.

10. No more community discussion - the section housed off-topic conversation while being on-topic to the name. Our topic is mainly the markets, this forum took away from the other sections of similar nature. Instead, open discussion on certain news items, that's all needs done here. Any unofficial post should be made in Suggestions and Feedback. Users creating posts in community general was chaotic, and the staff should take control of the community information section.

11. No more farewells allowed - They send a bad message, and new users may read them giving them a reason to doubt the staff or its abilities if slander is involved. Just a bad practice all around. If people want to say bye, they can PM their friends.

12. Disputes Privatized - Running a private dispute system is important. Once users click to dispute a -whatever- they fill out an html form that posts it on their behalf in a private section to the staff only. Contact information is filled out and the user is notified of a decision.

13. Gaming Merged - This was too big, and confusing. Made it smaller for increased ratio.


There may be other aspects I didn't explain, any questions, feel free to ask. Remember, the smaller the forums, the less scrolling. By combining sections, we create an illusion of even more activity, and by linking to sections from other sections, we remove confusion.

 

[mage3158]

I feel this is especially important since this forum seeks to expand into other game markets, it most definitely needs to be re-arranged.

 

[Brendan]

I feel this is especially important since this forum seeks to expand into other game markets, it most definitely needs to be re-arranged.

Currently, there is some work already being done by the staff regarding a market redesign. Other games markets will be more viewable in the new layout. You can see the thread here: http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1465235

 

[mage3158]

Currently, there is some work already being done by the staff regarding a market redesign. Other games markets will be more viewable in the new layout. You can see the thread here: http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1465235

It's not even just the markets, it's their respective discussion forums too.

 

[Brendan]

It's not even just the markets, it's their respective discussion forums too.

Oh, sorry. I just saw in your last post you were referring to the markets.

In that case yes, I do agree with you. While RuneScape is primarily a RuneScape Marketplace/Cheating/Discussion forum, it is also The Craigslist of Virtual Goods which means the forum should be able to adapt to all other games. Market or discussion-wise.

 

[the_dealer]

Agreed with Brendan about the wording part. That's a great idea just to clarify a few forums etc. in better detail

I simply feel that whilst putting the Community on the bottom may increase activity or whatever, and may work for other forums, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will work here?

I can't say I've researched it, though, so feel free to discount my opinion.

 

[SuF]

Ew no going back to console based layout of the gaming section. Minecraft is Xbox and PC. It just doesn't work.

 

[Deacon Frost]

Ew no going back to console based layout of the gaming section. Minecraft is Xbox and PC. It just doesn't work.

The current layout is too expansive, collapsing it in a better design would be more effective. I didn't say that my proposition is what should be taken into account, but certainly shortening, removing, and re-defining the forum sections should be a priority.

 

[SuF]

The current layout is too expansive, collapsing it in a better design would be more effective. I didn't say that my proposition is what should be taken into account, but certainly shortening, removing, and re-defining the forum sections should be a priority.

All I wanted was genres but others wanted to keep the other games on the front page so we kind of compromised.

 

[video]

Large forum re-organizing has been implemented