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I hate Religon. But love Jesus.

It’s worth beginning with this: I agree with this guy on a lot of points. He reminds us Catholics of a striking truth; that without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, religion is a joke. He speaks the truth that Christ died for all sins, once and for all. I can’t help but think, in the midst of all this, “This hating-religion-loving-Jesus thing is the logical consequence of Protestantism.” For a 21st-century Protestant looking at a thousand-something churches, I imagine there is an immense temptation to say “It’s all a wash. I will follow Christ, not a religion,” and be done with it. I empathize with him, knowing that if I were a Protestant I would be in full agreement: There is either one, true religion or there is no religion at all.

But nevertheless, there are two main problems with this video. 1. Jesus Christ would strongly disagree with it. That is to say, the creator of this video is very, very wrong. 2. He’s very, very wrong with some great video editing, good background music, a strong emotional appeal, catchy rhyme, and all in relatively well-timed YouTube moment. He’s wrong in style. When a man gains immense popularity by making blanket statements stylistically, how likely is it that his followers will read a rebuttal making specific statements prosaically? I don’t know, but rebut I must, for it is the duty of the Catholic to resist fashion and fads, no matter how unfashionable he looks doing it.
 
cavrey said:
It’s worth beginning with this: I agree with this guy on a lot of points. He reminds us Catholics of a striking truth; that without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, religion is a joke. He speaks the truth that Christ died for all sins, once and for all. I can’t help but think, in the midst of all this, “This hating-religion-loving-Jesus thing is the logical consequence of Protestantism.” For a 21st-century Protestant looking at a thousand-something churches, I imagine there is an immense temptation to say “It’s all a wash. I will follow Christ, not a religion,” and be done with it. I empathize with him, knowing that if I were a Protestant I would be in full agreement: There is either one, true religion or there is no religion at all.

But nevertheless, there are two main problems with this video. 1. Jesus Christ would strongly disagree with it. That is to say, the creator of this video is very, very wrong. 2. He’s very, very wrong with some great video editing, good background music, a strong emotional appeal, catchy rhyme, and all in relatively well-timed YouTube moment. He’s wrong in style. When a man gains immense popularity by making blanket statements stylistically, how likely is it that his followers will read a rebuttal making specific statements prosaically? I don’t know, but rebut I must, for it is the duty of the Catholic to resist fashion and fads, no matter how unfashionable he looks doing it.
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I wasn't trying to start a debate between Christians, Catholics, Atheists, Muslims, etc. This man has a point. There are too many Christians who're fake. Of course what he is saying is wrong, and if God was to look at this he would shake his head and reject it. What he's saying is wrong. But it's the point that I get and understand.

Also, please refrain from flaming/attacking each others' post.

I posted this here because I wanted to see the Community's thoughts of this video.
 
cavrey said:
I don’t want you thinks I’m being so harsh to them. All is good now.

By the way, I like this video.
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Ahha. This thread has been a discussion between us.

Who do you mean by "them"? I'm lost. Christians? Fakes?

And yeah, I do as well.
 
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He brings up a number of good points. One thing I really don't like about many religious people is that they do not think for themselves. They blindly follow the church (or whatever) without actually changing. Being an immoral bastard while still going to church on Sunday still makes you an immoral bastard.
 
Tyro said:
The video is just as stupid as the rest of Youtube. Hating religion and loving Jesus is like hating cancer and loving pancreatic cancer.
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Agreed. As a Christian, I do not like this video. He redefines the definition of religious to represent the pharisees of the Bible. He redefines the word "relationship" to encompass belief, support, willingness to die for, ect.

I believe that watching this video and agreeing with it is much more "following the Church" and "not thinking for yourself" than disagreeing with it. When this video is put to test with the Bible (you know, the thing that Christians SHOULD be preaching out of) it does not line up.

All that being said, he is just reiterating a lot of ideas that have already been presented. The whole "Jesus is all love, come to him and all your problems will disapear" Gospel is RIDICULOUS! Incredibly annoying.
 
I hate religion and love Jesus...

I'm not saying I hate people believing in other Gods.

I just don't believe in Catholics, Methodist, Baptist, etc. God didn't make religion, man did... He wanted us just to love him, and believe in Him. Not to split, or argue about religion. I believe my own way. And other Christians believe their own way. I won't argue.I like knowing when people believe in God, thats good enough for me.
 
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I hate Christianity (And religion in general) and love the teachings of Jesus. Pacifism, love, compassion for fellow man, he taught humanism not religion. He may have claimed divinity and the authors of the Bible claim that he did all of these miracles but what he did was relate to humans as human and not relate to them as a divine spectre. He hung out with prostitutes and undesirables and taught to the common man about love and peace, what organized church do you know will do that? What church do you know that would allow a dug addict (or a modern leper metaphorically) to come in the door and not judge him by his appearance or the rumors that they have been spreading. (Because we anyone who has been to a church knows how much church people love rumors.) I think people see the miracles but not the message, they see all the flash and pizaz without getting the real meat of what Jesus taught.
 
Heidy
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Tyro said:
He also had very violent teachings, often destructive of morality and families.

Again, if you agree with the OP you're essentially saying "I hate bestiality, but I love fucking goats."
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Where is his violent teachings? I would like to see your proof, please quote any scripture you feel are overtly violent messages. Yeah, he got pissed once and flipped over a table, that isn't saying 'And God commands you to kill all those bastard sons.'

I think your hatred towards what you perceive is stopping you from having an open mind and you are just as bad as all those religious people. Clearly if you have studied any of his teachings you will surely see that violence was against his nature. I am not advocating anything the church did, but we are talking about Jesus the man not Christianity the Church. The Church has historically been an advocate of violent means, but if you are confusing the two then you clearly wrong as I was referring to the man not the establishment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

Edit: The analogy you used isn't a good one, I mean I can enjoy the teachings of Buddha but shun Buddhism or I could love the beauty of the stone but find the river it resides in to my distaste. You are generalizing a person as a religion, maybe think it over before you post next time.
 
Jesus Christ, Jesus the Annointed One, or however it is one refers to that man as, was a philosopher to say the least, am I wrong?
 
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mexistaniX said:
Jesus Christ, Jesus the Annointed One, or however it is one refers to that man as, was a philosopher to say the least, am I wrong?
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Certainly not a particularly useful one. His teachings are widely contradictory, and the few good teachings are entirely unoriginal. Even the one concept most commonly attributed to him, the Golden Rule, was precedented by Confucius.

Emperor_Nero said:
Where is his violent teachings? I would like to see your proof, please quote any scripture you feel are overtly violent messages. Yeah, he got pissed once and flipped over a table, that isn't saying 'And God commands you to kill all those bastard sons.'

I think your hatred towards what you perceive is stopping you from having an open mind and you are just as bad as all those religious people. Clearly if you have studied any of his teachings you will surely see that violence was against his nature. I am not advocating anything the church did, but we are talking about Jesus the man not Christianity the Church. The Church has historically been an advocate of violent means, but if you are confusing the two then you clearly wrong as I was referring to the man not the establishment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism
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We know nothing about Jesus' life except the last portion, which is documented sparsely. What little we know was documented a century after he lived, by people who were not eyewitnesses. Even if we pull purely from the New Testament, it is quickly apparent that this was a person to be abhorred.

Here are a few highlights from arguably the least violent book of the New Testament, Matthew.

3:10, 3:12 - people will be eternally tortured for crimes during a finite life

5:17 - Jesus supports all cruelty in the Old Testament

5:29 - Jesus tells us to sever our hands and jab out our eyes (if we look upon a woman with lust)

7:13-14 – Jesus says that most people will be eternally tortured for aforementioned finite sins

7:19 – more hellfire

8:12 – the Jews will be sent to hell

8:32 – Jesus kills a lot of pigs

10:14-15 – those who don't hear the gospel will be eternally tortured

10:21 – Jesus' word will kill people and separate families

10:34-36 – Jesus preaches for violence, against families, and against peace

11:20-24 – Jesus condemns those who weren't interested in his message to eternal torture

13:41-42, 50 – Jesus sends more people to hell

15:4-7 – Jesus dictates that disobedient children should be killed

18:8-9 – see 5:29

18:23-25 – Jesus justifies enslaving entire families if one member is in debt

22:12-13 – inappropriate apparel justifies being eternally tortured

24:37 – drowning everyone on Earth is justifiable

24:50-51 – Christ will come when people least expect them, just to send them to hell

25:30 – being honest isn't good enough; you have to be a spiritual slave to Christ not to be eternally tortured

25:41 – Jesus will send people he doesn't like into “everlasting fire”

25:46 – Jesus reiterates that hell is eternal torture, for supposed crimes committed (or lack of belief in something you never even encounter) in a finite amount of time​

Edit: The analogy you used isn't a good one, I mean I can enjoy the teachings of Buddha but shun Buddhism or I could love the beauty of the stone but find the river it resides in to my distaste. You are generalizing a person as a religion, maybe think it over before you post next time.
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No. Worshiping a person as a god (even if we pretend that he wasn't a sadistic maniac) is religion. Bear in mind, the video (supposedly) discusses Christianity, not Christ.
 
Heidy
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Tyro said:
Certainly not a particularly useful one. His teachings are widely contradictory, and the few good teachings are entirely unoriginal. Even the one concept most commonly attributed to him, the Golden Rule, was precedented by Confucius.



We know nothing about Jesus' life except the last portion, which is documented sparsely. What little we know was documented a century after he lived, by people who were not eyewitnesses. Even if we pull purely from the New Testament, it is quickly apparent that this was a person to be abhorred.

Here are a few highlights from arguably the least violent book of the New Testament, Matthew.

3:10, 3:12 - people will be eternally tortured for crimes during a finite life

5:17 - Jesus supports all cruelty in the Old Testament

5:29 - Jesus tells us to sever our hands and jab out our eyes (if we look upon a woman with lust)

7:13-14 &#8211; Jesus says that most people will be eternally tortured for aforementioned finite sins

7:19 &#8211; more hellfire

8:12 &#8211; the Jews will be sent to hell

8:32 &#8211; Jesus kills a lot of pigs

10:14-15 &#8211; those who don't hear the gospel will be eternally tortured

10:21 &#8211; Jesus' word will kill people and separate families

10:34-36 &#8211; Jesus preaches for violence, against families, and against peace

11:20-24 &#8211; Jesus condemns those who weren't interested in his message to eternal torture

13:41-42, 50 &#8211; Jesus sends more people to hell

15:4-7 &#8211; Jesus dictates that disobedient children should be killed

18:8-9 &#8211; see 5:29

18:23-25 &#8211; Jesus justifies enslaving entire families if one member is in debt

22:12-13 &#8211; inappropriate apparel justifies being eternally tortured

24:37 &#8211; drowning everyone on Earth is justifiable

24:50-51 &#8211; Christ will come when people least expect them, just to send them to hell

25:30 &#8211; being honest isn't good enough; you have to be a spiritual slave to Christ not to be eternally tortured

25:41 &#8211; Jesus will send people he doesn't like into &#8220;everlasting fire&#8221;

25:46 &#8211; Jesus reiterates that hell is eternal torture, for supposed crimes committed (or lack of belief in something you never even encounter) in a finite amount of time​



No. Worshiping a person as a god (even if we pretend that he wasn't a sadistic maniac) is religion. Bear in mind, the video (supposedly) discusses Christianity, not Christ.
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What website are you copy and pasting from, and have you ever actually read any of the scriptures you are quoting in context? You can't use hell as an example of him advocating violence on earth, that is just silly. You are saying that all who believe in a possibility of Hell as an afterlife are violent.

You are just like most Christians you are taking a single scripture and building something around it. You have to read in context, and not pick out single things. Take Homosexuals most Christians will cite a verse in the Old Testament that is juxtaposed to scriptures that also say if one wears mix fibered clothing he is to be put to death. You are forming your argument erroneously by picking out bits a pieces that sound violent. Why would he at one time condone violence and then 90% of the time abhor violence.

The argument is going to be useless though, we aren't going to agree on any point. I will respect your opinion while I dissent, because I don't want this to turn into a flame war. You should really look into the scriptures you quoted though and think of them in context with the entire message or parable. Your hatred of religion has closed your mind and turned you into just as big of a bigot as any religious person is.
 
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Emperor_Nero said:
What website are you copy and pasting from, and have you ever actually read any of the scriptures you are quoting in context?
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These are my personal notes on Matthew. I've read the Bible almost ten times cover to cover, you fool.

You can't use hell as an example of him advocating violence on earth, that is just silly. You are saying that all who believe in a possibility of Hell as an afterlife are violent.
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First, you're ignoring all of the other things I listed.
Second, I can absolutely use hell as an example of violence when the person who created hell, created our flaws, and arbitrated rules against these flaws could eliminate them just as easily. He'd have to be far more cruel and sadistic than any human I've ever encountered.

You are just like most Christians you are taking a single scripture and building something around it. You have to read in context, and not pick out single things. Take Homosexuals most Christians will cite a verse in the Old Testament that is juxtaposed to scriptures that also say if one wears mix fibered clothing he is to be put to death. You are forming your argument erroneously by picking out bits a pieces that sound violent.
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That's moronic. These examples are prevalent, and clearly violent. As a "philosopher," Christ condoned a lot of violence. Further, if you elevate him to godhood, it shouldn't even be possible to extract an inclination toward violence or hypocrisy from any of his teachings.

I'd fully expect you to lock me away if I said anything nearly as psychotic and evil as Christ, and I'm a mortal.

Why would he at one time condone violence and then 90% of the time abhor violence.
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First, peace doesn't encompass anywhere near 90% of his teachings.
Second, there should be absolutely no hypocrisy in his teachings if he's omniscient and omnipotent.
Third, (spoiler alert) because he wasn't god.

The argument is going to be useless though, we aren't going to agree on any point. I will respect your opinion while I dissent, because I don't want this to turn into a flame war. You should really look into the scriptures you quoted though and think of them in context with the entire message or parable. Your hatred of religion has closed your mind and turned you into just as big of a bigot as any religious person is.
Click to expand...

I hate rape. I hate murder. I hate genocide. I hate child abuse. I hate dishonesty. I hate slavery.

The Bible condones these.

I hate the Bible.
 
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