Heaven/Hell

[kher0]

orders? sounds like where slaves when you say that. Also, whos calling the orders? god has never told me any orders, god has never spoken his orders to you or to anyone. Also, if i followed everything that god tells you to do in the bible id have to kill homos, kill people that work on sundays, kill millions of people. should i do this? no. because god didnt tell me to, people did. same with your quran, man wrote it, not god. Also if the message was as simple as, "do good and dont do bad" then that would be fine, but why add so much other bullshit?

If god created us, and wanted us to believe in him, why would god give us things like common sense and to be able to rationalise? because by giving us these things its almost impossible to believe in something so stupid.

WTF . First , If he created u , then u r his slave. Second , His order by praying and worshiping him. He is order to not killing .......etc. All these are his orders . DUMB

 

[porman]

WTF . First , If he created u , then u r his slave. Second , His order by praying and worshiping him. He is order to not killing .......etc. All these are his orders . DUMB

first, if you create something it doesnt make them your slave. if i have a kid, i cant do as i wish to it can i? Why would you worship someone that treats you like a slave? i am no slave...

he orders us by praying? i dont pray, and if i did, i wouldnt hear god tell me to do anything. have you heard the vioce of god when you pray? if not he hasnt ordered you to do anything. if you have you need mental help.

I didnt ask what his orders where, i was asking how does he enforce these, how does he get the message across if he doesnt speak to anyone?

edit: you acuse me of being dumb? yet your the one who cant even understand a simple question.

 

[Swan]

well i feel so sorry for u guys that dont believe in him because you will be sent to hell.

Oh really? I don't care.

ever read a bible u nut heads???

Of course I have. And my head isn't made of nuts.

well yall will go to hell
you better trust or u will

Do you have any evidence?

why would we go to chruch?
to waste our time

Yes indeed. You are blindly following a faith with no proof. I would consider that a "waste of time."

of course not its not believe and worship him

Hence, a waste of time.

yall are something else
BURN IN HELL YOU ALL!

Where do you get the conception that this magical place of fire exists? Your church, obviously.

 

[Damien0124]

basicly, this idea of heaven and hell is driven by fear.

"Believe in God or else... You go to hell."

Also, people are affraid of death, so they create this magical place in their mind, and they keep believing that if you will live good, you will go to that place when you die, and live for eternity. This is ofcourse also driven by fear.

 

[Macroman]

Some believe that " Hell " or damnation is a state of the mind and soul when it leaves the body. It doesn't physically exist but is very real.

But there is also no proof of this.

 

[Arya]

Are you saying that when you go to heaven you become a mindless zombie? god takes away everything that made you who you are, and replaced if it this unrealistic machanical way of thinking?

No, I'm not saying that when you go to Heaven/Hell, you become a mindless zombie. I'm saying that if heaven or hell were real, and you could get .. Accepted .. into either. If you were devious on Earth and "God" accepted you into heaven, you would no longer be devious. It wouldn't matter if being evil was your most favourite pastime.

then you would realise that theory means back up with evidence and proof? so that you know that in NO way is heaven, hell and god a theory?

What.. ? Who's side are you on? I can't understand a thing you're saying..

Okay.

I went and looked this up for you, so you can grasp what we're REALLY talking about.

Theory- A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

You've just said that in NO way were heaven/hell and God a theory. THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID. This would mean that the burden of proof fell on you? Unless I misunderstood what you said.

In that case .. Type better?

you cant speak for the whole human race. i can grasp the concept. Time is an ilusion, there so no such thing. If the universe at one stage never existed, then it would have never came to existance. simple as that. something can not be created out of nothing, and the fact that there is something, means that there has always been something. was that so hard to understand?

You didn't exist prior to your father existing. However, you managed to come into existence. Simple.

enough said.

u mak funni(;

stop and listen to yourself, when someone starts using supernatural enities in an arguement to try and explain a concept, it is a true sign of delusion.

WTF? The entire debate is generally based aroung the happenings of a supernatural entity, or no supernatural entity. Unless you'd like to bring your "logic" in this and say that if there were a heaven/hell, it'd be controlled by noone?

Hell is a lot more easier to be sent to than most people think. Its' really easy to fall into pressure to have premarital sex, and that's a MORTAL sin. Lying is a common thing and it's a pretty bad thing.

Yes, because someone TOLD you that hell was easy to get into.

Oh, so I suppose that if I have prematiral sex, I'm going to hell? However, if I lie 20 times to a preachers face, I won't? Do you know what a mortal sin is.. Lol? Murder is a mortal sin. Blasphemy is a mortal sin .. Which, seeing as you've taken the liberty to tell us what God and Lucifer think, you're pretty much being the "God" here, aye?

Blasphemy. Good luck.

No, there is no proof of Heaven and Hell because they're in a different universe.

Assumption.

Yes, you deserve to go to Heaven if you've never done anything good or bad, but that's only if you believe in God and follow his commandments.

"but that's only if you believe in God and follow his commandments.

^Hence, doing something "good"?
Know what you're saying before you say it.

Purgatory does exist and it's for people that may have committed one mortal sin or a lot of medium sins, you do suffer there to pay for your sins.

Your entire post was an assumption, you know?

^You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you? ..

 

[xx mdv xx]

lol you don't know what assumption means and no it's not an assumption it's actually in the Bible.

 

[porman]

lol you don't know what assumption means and no it's not an assumption it's actually in the Bible.

have you even read the bible?

Exodus 35:2 God lays down this commandment:

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Think about that how many people work on the Sabbath -- all the employees of Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Home Depot, Linnens & things, grocery stores, convenience stores, power plants, airlines, hospitals, emergency services and on and on and on

Then look at Deut 21:18-21. It says:

If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his town at the gate of that place. They shall say to the elders of his town, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. So you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel will hear, and be afraid.

That is a whole lot of teenagers that we need to kill.

Then there is Leviticus 20:13:

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

All homosexuals need to be killed. What about this:

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

That's a lot of people who need to be killed.

since when did you or anyone listen to the bible? you cannot just take out the bits you like

 

[porman]

What.. ? Who's side are you on? I can't understand a thing you're saying..

would you like me to talk like a 12 year old? would that help?

You've just said that in NO way were heaven/hell and God a theory. THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID. This would mean that the burden of proof fell on you? Unless I misunderstood what you said.

yes, you did misunderstand me. its simple, a theory means that something thats been backed up with proof right? you said yourself, now, there is no fucking proof of god and therefore is not a theory, yet a mindless concept.
No it doesnt mean the burdon is on me, it means the concept of god remains a fairy tale until it is proven, which will never happen.

You didn't exist prior to your father existing. However, you managed to come into existence. Simple.

Iv existed since the big bang, just not as the form of a human.

The entire debate is generally based aroung the happenings of a supernatural entity, or no supernatural entity. Unless you'd like to bring your "logic" in this and say that if there were a heaven/hell, it'd be controlled by noone?

The debate is invallid on your behalf. you cannot argue a piont with no emperical evidence supporting your claims. you cannot bring logic into a place like heavan and hell which is completely illogical.

I feel im wasting my time typing this since it would probably go over your head again, but il summerise for you.

Im an athiest, god doesnt exist, the flying spaghetti monster is just as likely to exist as god, both have no proof supporting it.

 

[xx mdv xx]

have you even read the bible?

Exodus 35:2 God lays down this commandment:



Think about that how many people work on the Sabbath -- all the employees of Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Home Depot, Linnens & things, grocery stores, convenience stores, power plants, airlines, hospitals, emergency services and on and on and on

Then look at Deut 21:18-21. It says:



That is a whole lot of teenagers that we need to kill.

Then there is Leviticus 20:13:


All homosexuals need to be killed. What about this:



That's a lot of people who need to be killed.

since when did you or anyone listen to the bible? you cannot just take out the bits you like

Yeah, that's a lot of people that need to be killed, so kill them. Also, you know a lot about the bible, but the 2nd Vatican council backs up working on the Sabbath day due to the normal modern world.

 

[porman]

Yeah, that's a lot of people that need to be killed, so kill them. Also, you know a lot about the bible, but the 2nd Vatican council backs up working on the Sabbath day due to the normal modern world.

so you think its ok to kill these people?

did god write the 2nd vatican? no. if he did he is in contridiction with himself.
If god is perfect, why would he change his mind? and who is to say what is ok or not? since god didnt say it was ok, you think you can overturn gods orders?

 

[Arya]

would you like me to talk like a 12 year old? would that help?



yes, you did misunderstand me. its simple, a theory means that something thats been backed up with proof right? you said yourself, now, there is no fucking proof of god and therefore is not a theory, yet a mindless concept.
No it doesnt mean the burdon is on me, it means the concept of god remains a fairy tale until it is proven, which will never happen.




Iv existed since the big bang, just not as the form of a human.




The debate is invallid on your behalf. you cannot argue a piont with no emperical evidence supporting your claims. you cannot bring logic into a place like heavan and hell which is completely illogical.

I feel im wasting my time typing this since it would probably go over your head again, but il summerise for you.

Im an athiest, god doesnt exist, the flying spaghetti monster is just as likely to exist as god, both have no proof supporting it.

Ahh,
You should, since you seem like you're 12, anyways.

I need to give no proof, empirical, ethical, moral, logical, technical, or any other, to back up a claim which I never made. I never said God was real, and if you'd have read the entire thread instead of seeing one post which LOOKED like something you could contradict, you would have seen that.

What I'm saying, and what I've been saying, is that it would seem just a smidge more logical to me to believe that something of greater power created us than the concept of forever, but only at different views. At the MAIN view I look at these things from, the logical aspect of it would be to believe that the universe has been, in all it's mystics and majestics, and will always be infinite.

I was testing out the waters of another point of view, which is what a good debater SHOULD do, but obviously, you couldn't see that, and only tried sticking up for your one side, instead of looking at both sides of the argument.

I still prefer to see the ignorance of those who do get sucked up into things that only force people to believe such things. Churches, and whatnot. Which, ultimately, brings me back to Bertrand Russell's China-Tea-Pot experiment. Go read it, It has it's points.

 

[porman]

theres nothing logical about a supernatural being that goes against the laws of physics. it is impossible.

I too can try and take the perspective of the opposing side, and by doing so i can make up my mind. i was born a catholic, i listened to all the bullshit in school, but what made me different from the rest of the kids is I questioned it. if something didnt make sense, i wouldnt just accept it because i was being told it. and depending on the response i got i realised how crap it is.

I remember asking a simple question about dinasour bones and you know what she said? "god put them there to test our faith" what crap is that? how stupid do these people think i am?

 

[Arya]

theres nothing logical about a supernatural being that goes against the laws of physics. it is impossible.

It would not be logical at all, going on it's own, being judged by someone who actually knows th meaning, you're correct. However, in a different manner.. It would be easier to say that someone created everything, just as my mother and father created me, than to say that nothing was ever created in the beginning, and it was just.. There.

I too can try and take the perspective of the opposing side, and by doing so i can make up my mind. i was born a catholic, i listened to all the bullshit in school, but what made me different from the rest of the kids is I questioned it. if something didnt make sense, i wouldnt just accept it because i was being told it. and depending on the response i got i realised how crap it is.

I remember asking a simple question about dinasour bones and you know what she said? "god put them there to test our faith" what crap is that? how stupid do these people think i am?

I realize this, but me, personally, am always open to fully understanding any different concept, theory, or hypothesis. That's my way of doing it, so yeah. :]

ILL EDIT THIS POST WHEN I GET BACK.

 

[K03d u f4st]

There is a certain age that u cant be sent to hell for.
It doesnt matter what sin you commit you can still go to heaven if u repent.
Even before death if you make a good prayer explaining your sorrow asking for fogiveness and say you belive jesus is that son of god u will go to heaven no matter what.
But if you try to fool god he will know and you will be punished
and once your in hell your there for eternity.

 

[jebckr]

There is a certain age that u cant be sent to hell for.
It doesnt matter what sin you commit you can still go to heaven if u repent.
Even before death if you make a good prayer explaining your sorrow asking for fogiveness and say you belive jesus is that son of god u will go to heaven no matter what.
But if you try to fool god he will know and you will be punished
and once your in hell your there for eternity.

Oh, so there's an age limit. What if you are old and senile? What if you are MR. What if you are 8 or 9 or 5? What if you develop slow? What if you where going to ask forgivness before death, but die to soon? What if, what if, what if GOD ISN'T REAL? What if everything you've been brainwashed to believe since you where to ignorant to know better is all a lie to comfort your weak sense of well being? What if the world is not as comforting a place as church makes it seem? What if you are helping to destroy minds by teaching them not to use rational, logical thought to understand the world? What if your Christian beliefs are the stupidity of man?

 

[kher0]

All homosexuals need to be killed. What about this:

That's a lot of people who need to be killed.

If u accepted to join God religion then would be like all other religion ppl. Like these ppl don't believe in God , So , no one have the right to kill them. U have to accept God laws be4 taking it's punishment. Another thing , U have to do this while there are 4 witnesses on u at least to get ur punishment. Now , someone tell me who have sex in front of 4 ppl. If not , then ur punishment will be when u meet the god and no one have the right to kill u.

theres nothing logical about a supernatural being that goes against the laws of physics. it is impossible.

Soz , I missed this but what is against the Physics.

without stating my religion

I think u should so that we can know what is ur thought and argue about it.

You will not even spare thought for, and consider the alternatives! There is no proof for there being a soul, and there is no proof for a 'soul going anywhere,' so why are you REFUSING to accept any other propositions? You are parochial!

I think believing about Souls , after life, ............etc will become after believing in god not be4.

 

[Arya]

You will not even spare thought for, and consider the alternatives! There is no proof for there being a soul, and there is no proof for a 'soul going anywhere,' so why are you REFUSING to accept any other propositions? You are parochial!

Hmm?

Don't get me wrong, I'll be willing to look at any posibilities of the many different things that have to do with heaven/hell, soul, and other things.. But yes, in this sense, I am as parochial as the most ignorant person on this forum. I mean, I didn't get this idea from a church or someone trying to persuade me to believe in a God who shows no proof on himself[For you who insist on knowing where I stand, lol.] . I got this idea from just thinking about the different aspects.

I've thought of the possibility, and I realize that mine isn't the most logical, but it's just something that'll stick with me. Probably for the rest of my life. I just can't see my self saying that I have no soul, lol.

 

[kher0]

someone trying to persuade me to believe in a God who shows no proof on himself[For you who insist on knowing where I stand, lol.]

Looks like u don't stand anywhere but after all I like ur way of thinking . If u knew from urself about souls , then it would be very short step and u will know about GOD.

 

[porman]

Soz , I missed this but what is against the Physics.

God and miracles is against the laws of physics. nothing can be created or destroyed, its a proven fact. yet god magicaly creates the universe out of nothing with a click of his fingers?
For there to be a true miracle it would have to defy the laws, otherwise its not really a miracle is it, its a party trick.