Graphics Scamming

[PrayerKid]

I have full support for this ONLY if it's because they just choose not to take it, but if you are saying you don't want it because the art work was shit, that's another story. (assuming that the seller woudn't be able to give them what they wanted)

Good idea jack.

 

[tgnDean]

Like others have already said a few times, I would support this only to an extent. If the person that was buying the graphic was to just say they didn't want it anymore than yes, you should be able to report them for scamming. However, if they buyer just plain doesn't like what the person has made and doesn't want to pay for work they don't like, they shouldn't have to.

 

[Add My Msn]

If you don't like the GFX you should pay half the price or 75% of the price if it costed less than $5 or something. I haven't checked through all the posts, so sorry if someone already said.

 

[Panda-Splosion]

Most professional graphic artists (people who actually do graphic design as a living such as logo design or landing pages and the like) usually require payment first and then offer "x" amount of revisions or sometimes even unlimited revisions. They also usually allow unlimited minor revisions such as colour changes or slight size changes or something of the sort.

It would probably just be best if the graphic designers here just do the same thing. If they already have an established portfolio of good work, then there's no reason for me to not go first to them. If I have a general concept already and then have them create a basic mock-up, I should be allowed to give more specifics as to what I want and then they should be able to revise afterwards to match my descriptions. I mean like most of the time people don't end up liking their final design because they aren't specific enough as to what they want.

"Oh, yeah, I just want like a flying monkey or something like that dancing on a book"

"Sure, here it is"

"I can't accept this, this isn't what I wanted the monkey to look like. This isn't how I pictured it. The book's not even the right colour!"

It's kind of hard for an artist to design something when they're expected to read the person's mind. If the graphic designers just offered "x" amount of revisions, then the buyer wouldn't really have a choice other than to pay and be as specific as possible or else it's just really his problem that the final design didn't come out the way he wanted.

Just my personal opinion is all, I buy a lot of logos/banners/custom graphics from a lot of people and this is usually the way it's done. It could already be implemented here on Sythe for all I know, I don't really check the graphics marketplace. It would probably save both the artist and the buyer a lot of time with the complaining and payment issues and whatnot though.

 

[xDePloY]

Most professional graphic artists (people who actually do graphic design as a living such as logo design or landing pages and the like) usually require payment first and then offer "x" amount of revisions or sometimes even unlimited revisions. They also usually allow unlimited minor revisions such as colour changes or slight size changes or something of the sort.

It would probably just be best if the graphic designers here just do the same thing. If they already have an established portfolio of good work, then there's no reason for me to not go first to them. If I have a general concept already and then have them create a basic mock-up, I should be allowed to give more specifics as to what I want and then they should be able to revise afterwards to match my descriptions. I mean like most of the time people don't end up liking their final design because they aren't specific enough as to what they want.

"Oh, yeah, I just want like a flying monkey or something like that dancing on a book"

"Sure, here it is"

"I can't accept this, this isn't what I wanted the monkey to look like. This isn't how I pictured it. The book's not even the right colour!"

It's kind of hard for an artist to design something when they're expected to read the person's mind. If the graphic designers just offered "x" amount of revisions, then the buyer wouldn't really have a choice other than to pay and be as specific as possible or else it's just really his problem that the final design didn't come out the way he wanted.

Just my personal opinion is all, I buy a lot of logos/banners/custom graphics from a lot of people and this is usually the way it's done. It could already be implemented here on Sythe for all I know, I don't really check the graphics marketplace. It would probably save both the artist and the buyer a lot of time with the complaining and payment issues and whatnot though.

Yeah you make some pretty good points about professional designers not going first. However, for both parties sake I would recommend a OMM/MM to hold the RSGP/Money it will cost to make the designs. People like FlyingToast hold money for things such as IRL sales until it arrives at the other parties disposal. This is because both parties may not be familiar to each other nor have a reputation which consists of consistant trades and vouches. I have experienced first hand what you are explaining you make a excellent point +1 As again I still support this.

If you don't like the GFX you should pay half the price or 75% of the price if it costed less than $5 or something. I haven't checked through all the posts, so sorry if someone already said.

Worse idea ever.....you need to view it in the artist perspective as well. How frustrating it could be.

 

[Frankz]

I fully agree with this.

 

[Panda-Splosion]

Why not just have the graphic designer create a portfolio for people to see their work (portfolios pretty much speaks for itself) and then have the graphic designer have their work approved by a mod or something and then pay a deposit to prevent scamming? This way, the buyer would go first to the designer and the deposit will make them feel secure.

 

[pur3bloody]

Dumbest suggestion ever if I've ever heard one. What if someone simply does not like the piece that the person made? Why would they pay for something they genuinely don'y like. That makes no sense.

 

[Emperor Nero]

Why not just have the graphic designer create a portfolio for people to see their work (portfolios pretty much speaks for itself) and then have the graphic designer have their work approved by a mod or something and then pay a deposit to prevent scamming? This way, the buyer would go first to the designer and the deposit will make them feel secure.

Bonds never work, especially in large orders. I can understand why people are against this, but they're not graphic designers and they don't know what it is like to work with a client for 3 to 5 hours for them to just change their mind. In the real world this kind of this doesn't happen. You don't work with a client on a design for an extended period of time for them to decide they want something else. A lot of the times people will take an unrefundable down payment on the work and sometimes have in the contract that you get paid hourly at a certain amount for early termination.

 

[Punjabi3]

Bonds never work, especially in large orders. I can understand why people are against this, but they're not graphic designers and they don't know what it is like to work with a client for 3 to 5 hours for them to just change their mind. In the real world this kind of this doesn't happen. You don't work with a client on a design for an extended period of time for them to decide they want something else. A lot of the times people will take an unrefundable down payment on the work and sometimes have in the contract that you get paid hourly at a certain amount for early termination.

I know a lot of advertisement creators who get paid after their work has been done and they've told me the few who walk away just give them future examples to use for someone else. Every industry has time wasters I deal with clients who walk away after weeks of work and hundreds of dollars spent on advertisements.

 

[Panda-Splosion]

Bonds never work, especially in large orders. I can understand why people are against this, but they're not graphic designers and they don't know what it is like to work with a client for 3 to 5 hours for them to just change their mind. In the real world this kind of this doesn't happen. You don't work with a client on a design for an extended period of time for them to decide they want something else. A lot of the times people will take an unrefundable down payment on the work and sometimes have in the contract that you get paid hourly at a certain amount for early termination.

True, but bonds seem to be a viable optiont only because because there seems to be an unusually large amount of scammers on RS/RWT forums such as Sythe. It would at least help deter the scammers who are going for low to mid level amounts of money. I think a bonds thing is already in place with TBT.

And yes, I'm aware that people don't just change their mind halfway. I get a lot of logo/banner work done so I would know that first hand Although I've actually never had a type of contract done for this...usually I would be permitted a few mock-up designs and then allowed a number of revisions to get it the way I want. If I use up all my revisions, then I'm pretty much forced to buy another service. As for hourly, I've only had that with website designers, never with just graphics.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I know a lot of advertisement creators who get paid after their work has been done and they've told me the few who walk away just give them future examples to use for someone else. Every industry has time wasters I deal with clients who walk away after weeks of work and hundreds of dollars spent on advertisements.

That's true but what I was getting at is that you usually have something in your contract with them saying they have to pay a cancellation fee or some sort of non-performance payment so that you're not out those weeks and all that money. Sythe really doesn't work that well when you imply contracts on trades here, I mean we do imply a simple form of contract between a seller and buyer that promises that a gold buyer will get their gold or that an account seller won't recover after a few months. The penalty for breach is a ban and if they want to come back then a repayment of the amount scammed. Graphic design is a little more complicated because it is nearly completely subjective and as everyone knows subjectivity is hard to measure so how can we decide if all that work really wasn't up to par or not? It is a complicated matter.

I don't think there are any graphic designers here that require a down payment for services, but I can see paying for the trade before hand. It is a messy situation to deal with and most of the artists I talk to get paid after the design because making them pay before hand is really a deterrent.

 

[S]

Establishing a down payment may work... however I just see that as a negating factor, leading people to not want to purchase any GFX.

In all honesty, if you're a GFX artist and you produce something the client doesn't wish to purchase/doesn't like, then its tough luck.

 

[Panda-Splosion]

Establishing a down payment may work... however I just see that as a negating factor, leading people to not want to purchase any GFX.

In all honesty, if you're a GFX artist and you produce something the client doesn't wish to purchase/doesn't like, then its tough luck.

If your portfolio can prove you can create it, then it's not really your fault then if your client isn't specific as to what (s)he wants. There's no reason to not put a down payment either, almost all services require up-front payment anyway. I would consider it pretty lucky if you found a service provider in this field that only accepts partial payment upfront.

 

[S]

If your portfolio can prove you can create it, then it's not really your fault then if your client isn't specific as to what (s)he wants. There's no reason to not put a down payment either, almost all services require up-front payment anyway. I would consider it pretty lucky if you found a service provider in this field that only accepts partial payment upfront.

Disagree.

Think of a scenario such as this:

Downpayment made>Graphic artist doesn't try/care, as they have the downpayment already>client at a loss.

 

[Emperor Nero]

Disagree.

Think of a scenario such as this:

Downpayment made>Graphic artist doesn't try/care, as they have the downpayment already>client at a loss.

Most of the time this isn't the case, most of the time it's the client has no clue what they actually want. You can ask any graphic designer here most people come and say make me something cool, and we have to spend a good portion of the design time trying to figure out what they actually want and like.

 

[Panda-Splosion]

Most of the time this isn't the case, most of the time it's the client has no clue what they actually want. You can ask any graphic designer here most people come and say make me something cool, and we have to spend a good portion of the design time trying to figure out what they actually want and like.

This exactly.

People have different concepts of "cool". I've never met a professional artist before who never cared about the work they put out.

 

[Aimless]

I do not support any graphics scamming additional rules; I'll never buy any more GFX if some of these rules were implemented. I'm not paying for something crappy, that's how the artistic field works. You have to make your own TOS if this is an issue for you, and expect far less customers if you don't have a portfolio setup.

Too many of the current GFX 'artists' on this site aren't actually good, so if they don't have a portfolio setup and require you paying something no matter what, you're going to get crap that you never would have paid for. There's not a single person on this site I'd consider a professional graphic designer, only a few have even expanded beyond Sythe..

 

[S]

I do not support any graphics scamming additional rules; I'll never buy any more GFX if some of these rules were implemented. I'm not paying for something crappy, that's how the artistic field works. You have to make your own TOS if this is an issue for you, and expect far less customers if you don't have a portfolio setup.

Too many of the current GFX 'artists' on this site aren't actually good, so if they don't have a portfolio setup and require you paying something no matter what, you're going to get crap that you never would have paid for. There's not a single person on this site I'd consider a professional graphic designer, only a few have even expanded beyond Sythe..

I agree, 100%.

 

[Panda-Splosion]

I do not support any graphics scamming additional rules; I'll never buy any more GFX if some of these rules were implemented. I'm not paying for something crappy, that's how the artistic field works. You have to make your own TOS if this is an issue for you, and expect far less customers if you don't have a portfolio setup.

Too many of the current GFX 'artists' on this site aren't actually good, so if they don't have a portfolio setup and require you paying something no matter what, you're going to get crap that you never would have paid for. There's not a single person on this site I'd consider a professional graphic designer, only a few have even expanded beyond Sythe..

I guess this would be the problem on this site then