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God?

Straggler said:
But our parents can PROVE the consequences of noncompliance...there is NO solid proof of God at all.

I'm still waiting on WHY you believe in God and HOW he has helped you.
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Because of what I see as "proof", the failing theory of evolution, and the miracles he has preformed in my friends lives. I have personally seen miracles. Historical evidence of Jesus and other things.

What has he done for me? Given me encouragement, hope, and a different outlook on life.
 
hashslinger said:
Let me give you an example.

Lets say your parents are God. They say if you follow their rules and be a good child they will support you and pay for your college (heaven). They also say that if you dont follow their rules and you break them all the time they wont support you. (hell) You decide that this is to hard.. and you want to do your own thing. You hang around bad people, you break their rules and you live a bad life. Now you know your parents love you, but you broke their rules. When you break rules there are consequences.
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Your analogy has flaws. If I follow my Parent's rules, then I am almost guaranteed to be supported through college. My mother has raised me my entire life, and I'm solid that she keeps her promises and she's a good mother. I'm confident that if I follow her rules, that I will indeed receive my college education, sponsored by her.

Now, let me give you a fitting analogy. I am an orphan. Everyone in the orphanage talks about how if they follow certain rules, college will be paid in full for them. They have no proof that this will happen, but their belief keeps them going. Will I live by those rules? Perhaps, or perhaps not. Will I believe that there is going to be people that pay my college tuition? No. Why not? Because I have yet to see proof.

Oh, and also, even if I do follow the rules, it doesn't necessarily mean I get the tuition. I have to believe in that the tuition will come, or else it won't work.

hashslinger said:
Also.. you said "Wouldn't it be alot easier on everyone if he just made it clear that he existed". Well... no. He did that for people in the bible times and they still turned away!
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I'm sure he did not provide proof then. It was the same deal. He performed private "miracles" for certain people, and all the people had to go on was the words of others.

If I saw proof of a all-powerful and loving God, I would give my allegiance to him. Am I not worth it? Isn't my soul worth being saved? Shouldn't this compassionate God make it a priority to save my soul, instead of leaving it to sheer chance that I'll blindly and stupidly believe in him?
 
hashslinger said:
Because of what I see as "proof", the failing theory of evolution, and the miracles he has preformed in my friends lives. I have personally seen miracles. Historical evidence of Jesus and other things.

What has he done for me? Given me encouragement, hope, and a different outlook on life.
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Nothing tangible, literal...The teachings of my parents are much better than the teachings of a "used to be" sexist, homophobic, pro-slavery God...

As for the miracles, why blame God? Incredible things have happened to me that I can't necessarily explain, but I certainly don't blame a god for them. Especially after living for 15 years without my position ever swaying on his nonexistence.

You must understand, failure of scientific theories does not equal the validity of God.
 
K-3-V-1-N said:
Your analogy has flaws. If I follow my Parent's rules, then I am almost guaranteed to be supported through college. My mother has raised me my entire life, and I'm solid that she keeps her promises and she's a good mother. I'm confident that if I follow her rules, that I will indeed receive my college education, sponsored by her.

Now, let me give you a fitting analogy. I am an orphan. Everyone in the orphanage talks about how if they follow certain rules, college will be paid in full for them. They have no proof that this will happen, but their belief keeps them going. Will I live by those rules? Perhaps, or perhaps not. Will I believe that there is going to be people that pay my college tuition? No. Why not? Because I have yet to see proof.

Oh, and also, even if I do follow the rules, it doesn't necessarily mean I get the tuition. I have to believe in that the tuition will come, or else it won't work.
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My analogy wasnt to prove whether or not believing in God gets you anywhere. It was to show you why God would send you to hell. Well... God doesnt send you to hell... you just fall away from God.


I'm sure he did not provide proof then. It was the same deal. He performed private "miracles" for certain people, and all the people had to go on was the words of others.

If I saw proof of a all-powerful and loving God, I would give my allegiance to him. Am I not worth it? Isn't my soul worth being saved? Shouldn't this compassionate God make it a priority to save my soul, instead of leaving it to sheer chance that I'll blindly and stupidly believe in him?
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I am assuming you have basic knowledge of bible stories. And I am assuming you know that even when they were face to face.. they still turned away.
 
hashslinger said:
My analogy wasnt to prove whether or not believing in God gets you anywhere. It was to show you why God would send you to hell. Well... God doesnt send you to hell... you just fall away from God.
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So then, millions upon millions "fall away from God" and are destined to be forever in agony, because God makes faith necessary, is that it? Why would he do such a thing? Why is he going to allow me to do that, when all he has to do is show me a little proof?

I already repeated myself too many times. Your God sees faith as a necessity. He provides no proof. If you believe that, I hope you see how cruel, unfair, and just plain stupid that is. Our society is slowly realizing that, I think. I hope that in the near future, this monkey will be permanently thrown off our backs, and we can focus on more relevant issues, rather then ones that have no real place in a rational world.

hashslinger said:
I am assuming you have basic knowledge of bible stories. And I am assuming you know that even when they were face to face.. they still turned away.
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Then they were (know that I'm only speaking out of what I assume is your viewpoint) either stupid, or they saw the man, and not the Son of God. Do you honestly think that if people were provided with proof, that the majority would refuse him?
 
K-3-V-1-N said:
So then, millions upon millions "fall away from God" and are destined to be forever in agony, because God makes faith necessary, is that it? Why would he do such a thing? Why is he going to allow me to do that, when all he has to do is show me a little proof?

I already repeated myself too many times. Your God sees faith as a necessity. He provides no proof. If you believe that, I hope you see how cruel, unfair, and just plain stupid that is. Our society is slowly realizing that, I think. I hope that in the near future, this monkey will be permanently thrown off our backs, and we can focus on more relevant issues, rather then ones that have no real place in a rational world.



Then they were (know that I'm only speaking out of what I assume is your viewpoint) either stupid, or they saw the man, and not the Son of God. Do you honestly think that if people were provided with proof, that the majority would refuse him?
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He gave the bible as proof what more do you expect him to do? At lest we have the word of God... no proof would be haveing no bible and a bunch of stores from our parents.. friends.. and other places.
 
hashslinger said:
He gave the bible as proof what more do you expect him to do? At lest we have the word of God... no proof would be haveing no bible and a bunch of stores from our parents.. friends.. and other places.
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The Bible is not a reliable source. The Bible was written over a period of 1400 to 1800 years by more than 40 different authors, etc.
 
hashslinger said:
Well what more do you expect? There are books older than that that have less written in them that we hold to be true today.
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We hold them questionable, like any other piece of history. The bible passed through too many hands, has been edited so many times, and has stories of things that we assume to be impossible, since they have never happened in modern times. Things such as the great flood, the killing of first borns in Egypt, etc. Huge supernatural things remain unproven.
 
K-3-V-1-N said:
We hold them questionable, like any other piece of history. The bible passed through too many hands, has been edited so many times, and has stories of things that we assume to be impossible, since they have never happened in modern times. Things such as the great flood, the killing of first borns in Egypt, etc. Huge supernatural things remain unproven.
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Haha If you google it there are many different sites that can show you that the flood is real.

The bible hasent been edited.. just paraphrased.
 
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