Why exactly can't we say 'PIN' in the account upgrade section?

Not sure if right section.

Yeah everyone who says it's against the rules automatically relates PINs with peenlines/illegally obtained upgrades via phone, but that's not all they are.

Jagex themselves call certain upgrades PINs, Such as PayByPhone, PayByMobile, and even GameCard codes are called PINs by Jagex themselves. There is nothing wrong or illegal about it, it's just what they are called.

So why is it still a rule that we can't call them PINs?

Also, as far as I can see, the age of the peenlines is long gone.

Yes years ago people sold many illegally obtained upgrades via peenlines and sold peenlines etc, but for so many years now peenlines (as far as I can see) are non-existent at Sythe.

So why is this rule still around? Did Sythe/People actually get in legal trouble for simply saying PIN in the upgrade section? What's the harm of saying selling PINs/Buying PINs? Is there any any more?

 

Pin lines are still around. Sythe wants to avoid any sort of legal troubles.

 

How does simply saying PIN get you in legal troubles?
That is what many different types of upgrades are called, nothing illegal about it.
I can understand saying pin line or claiming to use/have one can be frowned upon, but just saying PIN is normal, that is what they are.

 

It's, if I am correct, how they can look the other way about selling Pins and not have to get the information on how the users get the pins. *******s technically aren't allowed but you can't figure out if someone is using one if they don't admit. Which I remember an incident where a large pin seller did admit to using *******s in the IRC but nothing really came of it.

It avoids legal troubles. The less they know the less they can be held accountable of kind of thing.

 

I think it's more of a 'Better safe than sorry' situation. Sure we could all probably get around saying it without getting into trouble but Sythe knows that they're related with some very related activities and would prefer to stay away from all trouble.

 

The problem is that, if the person uses a PIN line, selling the PIN directly is trafficking stolen goods. However, if the person sells an upgrade instead, it is no longer a sale for any goods at all. The money transaction is now for a service, which is a legal grey area and is considered to be safer. Like Brendan said, it's most likely just a "safe than sorry" type thing.

 

They are still around, sure, but nowhere that even comes close to how many there were when I was selling pins. Almost all of the ones being used then were disabled.

I still agree with Sythe's decision to change that section up and ban the word pin, upgrades are an easy loophole and most of the sales carried out in that section now are for game cards anyways, this thread woulda made sense back when the ban was done but at this point it's not really important.

 

IF the person is using a pin line then yeah it's trafficking stolen goods.
But if the person is selling a game card, legally obtained Pay By Phone, or Legally Obtained SMS PIN, then there is no problem, they are called PINs.

Whoever would be prosecuting would just be ASSUMING the PIN is stolen though... just because the word 'PIN' was used? Wouldn't make a very good argument in court.

People saying PIN does not automatically = stolen goods. And prosecutors would have no way of proving it either.

Was there ever any legal troubles or pressure when people were selling PINs? Any threads/talk about it anywhere?

Game card 'upgrades' ARE called PINs, it says so on the back of every card.

 

Is there really a big issue with using the term upgrade instead? It's not like Sythe is banning or seriously punishing members for saying pin.

 

Its not really a huge deal, but people will actually have their threads locked for saying that they are "selling pins" even when they are legit game cards. Of course it would be illegal if there were people selling "stolen goods" on the website, and if we had proof of that the user would be banned. I don't really see how much "legal trouble" could actually come out of using the term pin.

 

I can understand what you and the Yohojo are trying to say, but when the rule was implemented the use of ********s and the illegal obtaining of pins was highly discussed and members were basically admitting to using shady methods to obtain pins. At the time Sythe got weary of this (Knowing it could open a door for Jagex to have a legitimate claim against the website) and blocked all possibilities of it happening.

These days it's not openly discussed, but the rules have just stayed the same for safety sake. Members don't openly talk about where their 'upgrades' are obtained in fear of getting an infraction or whatnot.

 

Legal issues