Extremely disappointed at OGV rank

[Abarta]

Only a handful of OGV ranks were given out, and the name of the group is Official Guide Verifiers. It isn't like it says Official Sell Your Gold To This Guy. It's the same thing has you saying you've handled $50,000 in trades - except I can actually verify easily that I am part of the OGVs. We have our names listed in the sticky with a link to our profile. It isn't like we are all people who have 150 posts and have been here a couple months. We are all dedicated community members who are taking responsibility to make sure people are getting accurate and working guides.




But it can easily happen. Just because you won't do it doesn't mean someone else won't. Look at Lillie's guide, it could easily be found for free on the internet else where but the first couple of pages were people praising it. (including well known community members, if I do remember correctly.) Turns out that the guide was completely awful and it didn't help that the OGVs ended up verifying it. That whole ordeal is why I worked so hard to get the guide section changed and to get on the OGVs, I don't want to see people getting ripped off.



But that is what we are. We are a staff sanctioned group of mainly non-staff members who have the ability to officially verify a guide on behalf of the staff. We are sort of like the MMs of guide sales.

I see what your points are, but I don't agree. It isn't like we are going to use it to scam - we are all well-known, highly active members of this community. Just about everyone knows who we are and have had some sort of dealings with us. It isn't like we are a group of no-names given a symbol of trust.

You're just trying to defend yourself because you have OGV.

 

[Punjabi3]

You seem to think these guides arnt already being abused/leaked, by any of the current OVG's, yet I can name one person(I'm not going to, it's not my place to say) Who is doing just that.
I have no problem with the rank in general, it's kind of tacky like the old UE rank, but meh.

If you have problems with them abusing it you should report it. I'm sure the ogv system wasn't set up to get free guides from people. The UE education hardly had any restrictions on who could become a UE and staying a UE is far easier than an OGV. At the moment the biggest problem with the OGV team is probably keeping people on the team. There are no incentives to stay atleast with the rank there is a reason for a few members to remain on the OGV team.

Also since when did so many people get butthurt over ranks being added. Its a little incentive for contributing your time. Its no different than getting an ex-mod rank after 3 months of being a mod. Also this rank isn't even permanent.

Also Karl I posted that because you said people will be using it for tags and I just wanted to show people will use it for a tag whether the rank is implemented or not.

 

[Emperor Nero]

You're just trying to defend yourself because you have OGV.

>_<

Good god, go back the last three times there has been OGV apps open. I have submitted one since the beginning, way before there was a rank. Check my suggestions and feedback, I've made several posts concerning the guide section and the bad guides that were just sitting there ripping people off. Read my posts. I don't give a damn about a rank. It doesn't matter to me, I am not a trader. I don't even do the graphics market anymore. I am doing this so people don't buy shitting guides.

 

[Karl]

Only a handful of OGV ranks were given out, and the name of the group is Official Guide Verifiers. It isn't like it says Official Sell Your Gold To This Guy. It's the same thing has you saying you've handled $50,000 in trades - except I can actually verify easily that I am part of the OGVs. We have our names listed in the sticky with a link to our profile. It isn't like we are all people who have 150 posts and have been here a couple months. We are all dedicated community members who are taking responsibility to make sure people are getting accurate and working guides.

For now yes, the current team may or may not have ill-intentions and the team currently were around BEFORE the ranks. But now, I can just see it getting as bad as UE. users will become interested on this rather rare rank amongst the community and wonder why they can't join, it'll become some kind of elite club, those who are trusted to be able to get guides for free, essentially, and review them - and can then choose if they're allowed to sell them or not. - OGV has always flown under the radar, since Pen ran it, since it got reformed by Kero and nate, since I took over and Finn abolished it and then I got it re-added. Kero and plznate had it running extremely well WITHOUT a rank, so don't give me bullshit about the rank being an incentive, because if thats what it takes for you to help out something that you were meant to be volunteering for anyway, then you shouldn't be a part of OGV.

But that is what we are. We are a staff sanctioned group of mainly non-staff members who have the ability to officially verify a guide on behalf of the staff. We are sort of like the MMs of guide sales.

Without the rigorous application and democratic process of promotion.

I see what your points are, but I don't agree. It isn't like we are going to use it to scam - we are all well-known, highly active members of this community. Just about everyone knows who we are and have had some sort of dealings with us. It isn't like we are a group of no-names given a symbol of trust.

The trust isnt exactly the issue, but rather the fact the rank will be abused in one way or another - it will become something to sought just for the rank with newer members, BEFORE the rank OGV would attract few people who were out just for guides and a bunch of people that you could tell just wanted to help, which was obvious, because there was no RANK REWARD. It'll be interesting to see the next OGV applications.

 

[cosrob97]

The requirements for the rank is very strict. It takes 2 months of being an active ogv and meeting the points required (which I only know). And if you get on probation you automatically lose the rank.

Also, people can't join for the rank (even moderators now). This is too stop people joining for the rank.

However, I don't believe it should be used as a symbol of trust and I advise against using it in title thread. I'll make some inquiry and see if we can ban the use of "OGV" in selling threads for ogv and even ex-OGV.

 

The requirements for the rank is very strict. It takes 2 months of being an active ogv and meeting the points required (which I only know). And if you get on probation you automatically lose the rank.

Also, people can't join for the rank (even moderators now). This is too stop people joining for the rank.

However, I don't believe it should be used as a symbol of trust and I advise against using it in title thread. I'll make some inquiry and see if we can ban the use of "OGV" in selling threads for ogv and even ex-OGV.

People can't even join openly. And applications... no comments.

If the "trust is subjective" thing is real, people should be allowed to use in their thread titles, just like trusted tag.

And it does show some trust to a point. I doubt any idiot can join OGV (This differs if it's the inverse)

The rank should be for those OGVs who deserve it, but it's ugly.

 

[Laptop65]

Well there was an OGV team before without a OGV rank and that got on fine. The only disadvantage I see to not having the rank is you wouldn't be able to tell who is an OGV member or not. There's really no real need for it at the end of the day, it's just another rank.

 

[Apith]

Well there was an OGV team before without a OGV rank and that got on fine. The only disadvantage I see to not having the rank is you wouldn't be able to tell who is an OGV member or not. There's really no real need for it at the end of the day, it's just another rank.

Karl did bring up a good point, a rank that would soon be sought by members who would join the OGV team for the rank and not to genuinely help. Unlike most of the current OGV members that are doing it to help. You guys will go, and others will come eventually.

 

I agree, I don't think it should receive a rank, as well.

 

[mage3158]

Well you have to be fairly tested to be OGV anyway..

Yah like that guy who got banned within 3 days of having it.

 

[KerokeroCola]

Who chooses who gets to be OGV? Another reason I always wanted to avoid an OGV rank is because ranks should be decided by a consensus of the staff, much like being promoted to mod or OGV is.

 

[GodGenesis]

I dont think it such a big deal...

Those on the OGV team are already quite trusted even without the rank.

 

[Listen to Young Money]

I don't see the problem with having the rank there. These users were verified and went through a system to get where they are to help better the community. Now using it in your title as a symbol of trust to help persuade the status of your services/goods I think is wrong and should not be allowed.

 

[ipesza]

Im just gonna say, the OGV team do a great job at what do they, which sypherz said earlier, at weeding out the shit guides. Owning 1 of the 2 verified real life guides obviously makes me look at this differently. But a lot of the guides are very badly written and the OGV team must have some sort of trust to not abuse their power to be in the position they are in! So surely they do deserve the rank of OGV to prove, to an extent, their legitimacy?

 

[Apith]

Im just gonna say, the OGV team do a great job at what do they, which sypherz said earlier, at weeding out the shit guides. Owning 1 of the 2 verified real life guides obviously makes me look at this differently. But a lot of the guides are very badly written and the OGV team must have some sort of trust to not abuse their power to be in the position they are in! So surely they do deserve the rank of OGV to prove, to an extent, their legitimacy?

The difference now is the our current team were in it to actually help the site, do what they can to help people out. Soon enough it will be people chasing after the rank, applying for OGV, and would want to be an OGV for the rank and not really to help.

As others said, the previous OGV were fine, without the rank. It really doesn't affect me, or anyone as of this moment. But like Karl said, it would be interesting to see future OGV apps.

 

[cosrob97]

Who chooses who gets to be OGV? Another reason I always wanted to avoid an OGV rank is because ranks should be decided by a consensus of the staff, much like being promoted to mod or OGV is.

It was selected with each member choosing the members who would be best for the team and people with the most occurring name would be promoted. Also, if a user had an issue (like xxx user is rude/horrible/has a bad attitude and provides proof) it's more then likely of them not joining.

In sum, it's basically the whole team agrees on who to join. Which is why the team current are very well connected.



There's a couple questions I've got to ask the people against the rank:

1) Why didn't you complain 2 months ago when you found out there was a rank in the application thread?
2) You all say the current team did it to help and are very good at it currently. But they all knew there was the possibility of gaining a rank. So would that not nullify the concerns of people in the future only applying for the rank?

 

[Apith]

There's a couple questions I've got to ask the people against the rank:

1) Why didn't you complain 2 months ago when you found out there was a rank in the application thread?
2) You all say the current team did it to help and are very good at it currently. But they all knew there was the possibility of gaining a rank. So would that not nullify the concerns of people in the future only applying for the rank.

I'm not against it, I'm just not convinced that it was necessary.

I actually did think about it when I saw the application thread, however I didn't see it the way Karl did.

Majority, if not all, of the current team joined not expecting a rank, even if there was a possibility, they didn't expect it. Most, if not all, would and have said they don't mind the rank either way.

There's a difference now, one was you could get a rank. And the other is showing everyone the new rank. How many people would try to get hold of such a rank now that they see it.

I don't dwell in the guide section too much, but others said that the OGV team did good before ranks were even issued. Most, if not all, had the intentions of helping out the community, rather than getting a rank.

 

[Deathsnova]

I beleive instead of OGV rank they should be able to put "official guide verifier" in their UT in a bright colour (even if they're not donators). Would solve this issue.

It was selected with each member choosing the members who would be best for the team and people with the most occurring name would be promoted. Also, if a user had an issue (like xxx user is rude/horrible/has a bad attitude and provides proof) it's more then likely of them not joining.

1) Why didn't you complain 2 months ago when you found out there was a rank in the application thread?
2) You all say the current team did it to help and are very good at it currently. But they all knew there was the possibility of gaining a rank. So would that not nullify the concerns of people in the future only applying for the rank?

1) Honestly because everyone thought they were going to get OGV and they didnt want to take away the rank they thought they deserved
2) I think if you search deep enough you'll realise proably 3 of the people who got the job had the alterior motive of only doing it to get the rank

 

Becoming OGV isn't an easy process from what I can hear, so even if the rank symbolises trust, what's the problem? Is there any OGV on the team that you think isn't trustworthy?

I think maybe the rank was a bit too far, but it isn't doing any harm and I'm sure, whether they say it or not, the members will feel a little compensated for the job they're doing.

If you were new and looking for someone to verify your guide, it would be confusing when several people offer to verify it for you. At least with the rank they can know for sure the person is an Official Verifier.

 

[cosrob97]

Majority, if not all, of the current team joined not expecting a rank, even if there was a possibility, they didn't expect it. Most, if not all, would and have said they don't mind the rank either way.

You can't say this as nobody knows what everybody is thinking. It's literally putting words in other people's mouths.

I don't dwell in the guide section too much, but others said that the OGV team did good before ranks were even issued. Most, if not all, had the intentions of helping out the community, rather than getting a rank.

You are gravely mistaken. When I first joined the ogv; guides would be there for weeks, there was little activity. People wouldn't post in roll call threads and there were no consequences. No proper system of measuring activity. No posting on peoples threads if their guide was denied (you can check older threads with them saying "I pm'ed the ogv a while ago, but nothing happened"). No proper voting. No demoting people. Overall, very little moderation and lack of structure. It was basically a mini group of people who felt special and lacked responsibility.

So I wouldn't say they were good. It was actually very poorly set up with little activity/moderation/ and responsibility. What you're referring to as "OGV team did good before ranks were even issued" was more than likely this last month where all the changes have taken place (changes outlined here). And so these changes had the team under more responsibility and so to compensate members were rewarded with a rank (if they make the points). The ogv team has been running so well nearly all guide have been verified/denied within 2 days.

Here's the list of things members get points for:

Got to remember we get about 16 guides a month with about 3-4 with a yellow line through it.

The rank isn't a symbol of trust. Heck 6 out of the 9 members are current or ex-mods/admins, the remaining three are long time members who have been proven not to be scammers (with 10k post total). I'm more than sure these people wouldn't need a trust rank. Also members aren't allowed to put it in their tags, and I advise ex-members not to put it in either.

For the concerns about new members joining for the rank: Why wouldn't the team just vote in good members (we did the last 5 members)? Just because more people applying doesn't mean nobody is going to apply to help. You're all acting like this rank means people are only ever going to apply now for a rank....



Now I hope I've addressed all concerns and here's a tl;dr version.

• The old system was never working properly, it lacked order and control
• The new system is working fluently and there hasn't been a single problem
• Due to the more responsibility members now have a greater reward
• Members gaining trust isn't an issue (read above)

If you have any other concerns please pm me with them and I'll individually answer them.