Explain the 11th dimension to me

[Alternative Illusion]

Only if you have EXTENSIVE knowledge on the topic*


This is probably the WORST place to ask these questions, but how exactly could an 11-dimensional perspective exist? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 10th dimension is all possible outcomes of all possible initial conditions of the universes represented as a point. So infinite infinities as a dot. The 11th dimension looks "down" on that in some sort of greater, more "real" reality, yes? The way I'm looking at this appears it is some sort of "god" consciousness type thing going on here. How can a perspective exist that wouldn't be viewing from inside one of the lower dimensions? It would exist "outside" of the first 10, yes? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding this, which is entirely possible, it seems to me some mystical, god-like consciousness would be required to allow for an 11-dimensional viewpoint.


This is one of the first times I've really tried to understand the 11th dimension. It seems to me that if I'm understanding this right, this hypothetical/theoretical 11-dimensional "viewer" doesn't get enough attention. I'm just trying to understand this. Pointing me in the right direction for outside sources would be GREATLY appreciated. I'm having a hard time Googling this.

 

[Sin666]

I don't know where you're getting the, "10th dimension is all possible outcomes of all possible initial conditions of the universes represented as a point"

There are many theories of what even the first 10 dimensions would look like. As far as I know, the only reason to believe there are 11 of them is a mathematical formula relating different areas of quantum physics that only makes sense with the assumption of 11 dimensions - that doesn't mean it's the right solution, nor does it say anything about what the dimensions would look like. For all we know, they could be so small that only subatomic particles could traverse them, or perhaps so big we could barely comprehend them.

 

[HeavenLord]

My friend showed me this video like a year ago and it completely cleared my confusion about the dimensions, however it only goes up to the 10th dimension.

Part 1:
[YOUTUBE]JkxieS-6WuA[/YOUTUBE]

Part 2:
[YOUTUBE]ySBaYMESb8o[/YOUTUBE]

 

[FreedomFight]

String theory accounts for 10-11 dimensions. I won't pretend to understand what the 11th means. Some scientists propose there are infinite dimensions, although we can only conceive of up to 11.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

If this is another "I don't know what it is, therefore it must be God thread"... dimensional analysis would be the wrong place to begin.

 

[Straggler]

I don't see how there could be an 11th to be honest. If 10 truly holds every possible story, what is left? Totally guessing here, but maybe the last dimension the course of events that would delete all 10 dimensions, meaning it could reverse the dimensions until there would be no possible occurrences, ever. Once the line is drawn to that dimension, any actions/strings/dimensions will be impossible. It's like having a pencil and paper and removing the pencil. Nothing more could ever be drawn. But I don't know how the line between anything and nothing could be drawn. Confusing stuff.

 

[Alternative Illusion]

The 11th looks "down" on all the stories and sees reality like it really it. It would be a timeless, eternal, infinitely vast and complex... point? Plane(s)? Well anyway, I can KIND of grasp taking myself out of the story and looking at the omniverse, but the thing I can't understand is what the viewer would be. Like I was saying, it would need to be a perceiver outside of what it is looking at, but what it is looking at is everything. It's paradoxical. If it exists, it SHOULD be inside the other dimensions of existence, but if it exists there it can't have the outside perspective.

 

[Alternative Illusion]

You've never thought god could be contained in a higher dimension? I had that thought, did some googling, and then found the video that's in my sig now. You don't need to call it god or the tao, but that's what you're talking about. If you have the time you should check out the vid in my sig. It's worth every minute of your time.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

I believe the structure of the universe and the atom is a repeating pattern, like a fractal. That's why I don't think we will ever find the smallest piece of matter or the end of the universe, because it goes on forever, perhaps in a circle. Notice how the structure of an atom is so similar to the structure of a solar system; but the size difference is so tremendous that the atom probably wont know that it is part of a solar system, and the solar system probably wont know that it is made up of many tiny solar systems. The whole universe might be part of a proton which is part of an atom which combines with other atoms to make an even bigger being, and that being will probably never know that we exist, because we are so small. And who knows that being might even be us, coming full circle. But we will probably never know in this lifetime because we can't look that far, we are limited by the laws of physics.

 

[Straggler]

I believe the structure of the universe and the atom is a repeating pattern, like a fractal. That's why I don't think we will ever find the smallest piece of matter or the end of the universe, because it goes on forever, perhaps in a circle. Notice how the structure of an atom is so similar to the structure of a solar system; but the size difference is so tremendous that the atom probably wont know that it is part of a solar system, and the solar system probably wont know that it is made up of many tiny solar systems. The whole universe might be part of a proton which is part of an atom which combines with other atoms to make an even bigger being, and that being will probably never know that we exist, because we are so small. And who knows that being might even be us, coming full circle. But we will probably never know in this lifetime because we can't look that far, we are limited by the laws of physics.

But what happens after you give yourself an instance where everything, all possibilities, every origin and every ending is included? Hard to have a pattern after that.

 

[mynameisearlandilikenuts]

Ha, I'm confused with the fourth. Can't help you there.

 

This isn't science, its more like a mathematical religion.

Science is empirical. Where is the evidence for all these additional dimensions? Where is the evidence that time is even a dimension? Why have these people disregarded what Einstein said about causality?

The geometry described doesn't even make sense in the real world. You assume causality in order to begin making any theory: it is a fundamental premise. So if one of your conclusions is that you can alter the past by folding through a dimension above time -- a dimension you've asserted without proof -- then you would be contradicting a fundamental premise of your own argument; You need a completely new model of causality, a new way in which to link cause and effect before you can even begin to construct a self-consistent theory around time as a manipulatable dimension.

And because all the other upper dimensions are built on the theory at time is a manipulatable dimension, the whole thing comes crashing down -- as most of this mainstream pseudo-scientific nonsense eventually will.


--- Edit: more to add...

Occam's razor:
"the principle that entities should not be multiplied needlessly; the simplest of two competing theories is to be preferred"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

So let's review the two possibilities:
Either time travel is possible, and there are 10 dimensions and infinite other universes that we will never know about, and all of this exploded out of a single point of nothing, for no apparent reason, or some "physicists" -- I use the term lightly -- have cushy jobs they want to keep and are perfectly content to publish unfalsifiable claims and elaborate nonsense to secure funding and research grants.

 

[olweasel]

This isn't science, its more like a mathematical religion.

I agree.

It's just a bunch of irrational paradoxes going on about virtually nothing.

How is it relevant to our reality?

 

[youtube]V026kSw4XCs[/youtube]

pt2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Bh-GemFRo&feature=related
pt3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxGT9CQVkDk&feature=related
pt4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uf8-CZAWsI&feature=related

 

[Straggler]

This isn't science, its more like a mathematical religion.

Science is empirical. Where is the evidence for all these additional dimensions? Where is the evidence that time is even a dimension? Why have these people disregarded what Einstein said about causality?

The geometry described doesn't even make sense in the real world. You assume causality in order to begin making any theory: it is a fundamental premise. So if one of your conclusions is that you can alter the past by folding through a dimension above time -- a dimension you've asserted without proof -- then you would be contradicting a fundamental premise of your own argument; You need a completely new model of causality, a new way in which to link cause and effect before you can even begin to construct a self-consistent theory around time as a manipulatable dimension.

And because all the other upper dimensions are built on the theory at time is a manipulatable dimension, the whole thing comes crashing down -- as most of this mainstream pseudo-scientific nonsense eventually will.


--- Edit: more to add...

Occam's razor:
"the principle that entities should not be multiplied needlessly; the simplest of two competing theories is to be preferred"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

So let's review the two possibilities:
Either time travel is possible, and there are 10 dimensions and infinite other universes that we will never know about, and all of this exploded out of a single point of nothing, for no apparent reason, or some "physicists" -- I use the term lightly -- have cushy jobs they want to keep and are perfectly content to publish unfalsifiable claims and elaborate nonsense to secure funding and research grants.

Well yeah, it's not empirical science, more like conceptual science. It makes a bit of sense if you think about it but yeah, I agree nobody should be paid for coming up with it.

 

Well yeah, it's not empirical science, more like conceptual science. It makes a bit of sense if you think about it but yeah, I agree nobody should be paid for coming up with it.

It would be conceptual / theoretical science if it prompted experiments, but it doesn't. Everytime the model no longer fits the data they just invent some new magical entity or substance (neutron stars, dark matter, black holes, etc.)

 

[ImaGiNaTioN]

HOLY SHIT LOOK! QUANTUM PHYSICS ON SYTHE!

+1 for community.

 

[Straggler]

It would be conceptual / theoretical science if it prompted experiments, but it doesn't. Everytime the model no longer fits the data they just invent some new magical entity or substance (neutron stars, dark matter, black holes, etc.)

It's dealing with a level of theory that can't really be put into a physical experiment. So far we only have the resources to imagine time travel and other universes, but certainly not the means to legitimately investigate them. In time, maybe we will...it will certainly take a long time.

 

It's dealing with a level of theory that can't really be put into a physical experiment. So far we only have the resources to imagine time travel and other universes, but certainly not the means to legitimately investigate them. In time, maybe we will...it will certainly take a long time.

It's just geometry misapplied and run-a-muck. It is not a model of the real world anymore than complex numbers or the square root of -1 is an element of the real world. It's just mathematics misapplied via false premises, that is all.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

But what happens after you give yourself an instance where everything, all possibilities, every origin and every ending is included? Hard to have a pattern after that.

There is no origin or ending to a fractal... it goes on forever both ways.

 

[Alternative Illusion]

Time isn't really the 4th dimension, more like a direction. You can also look at the 4th as a spatial dimension. This really didn't help me at all with understanding how the 11th would function though. I guess I was right with thinking it would imply some sort of god perspective? I mean it would need to be removed from "existence" to be able to look "down" at everything else.