Dr. Kevorkian & assisted suicide

[Jimmy]

It was all going so well until you said this...

"to help them pass in a more comfortable and less painless way; rather than suffering until the end of their existence."

can you say fallacy?

In what way?

I think physician assisted suicide is wrong and should remain illegal for a plethora of reasons which i'll go into if anybody wants me to.

Please do.

I believe that human life has intrinsic value so shouldn't be killed

Should wars never happen, should criminals never be executed, and should we not defend ourselves if our lives are at risk? The logic here is so obviously flawed, as you don't bother to take into account the numerous times where taking a human life is a preferable moral solution to a greater evil.

Palliative care should be invested in instead of offering barbituates

Okay, but this doesn't address the issue of somebody suffering unbearable paint that is without a sufficient treatment.

We need to end misconseptions about death (like pain), as opposed to offering euthanasia as a good thing

Plenty of terminally-ill patients are constantly suffering agonizing pain, yet it is illegal to put them out of this misery simply because they are homo sapiens.

If euthanasia is put through, how do we monitor it? It may lead to non-voluntary euthanasia I.e. the Remmelink Report

It would be difficult, but this hardly means that it should be disallowed altogether.

Further to it being allowed, how is it fair that doctors are the ones burdened with killing?

See above.

Also alters the doctor/patient relationship with no regard to the Hippocratic oath which states "i will administer no lethal poisons..." or words to that effect

See above.

How do we eliminate the potential surreptitious motives that could sway a decision to kill a family member i.e. life insurance scams

See above.

We have a duty to society to live on (Kants idea)

Why?

Unalienable rights would be from God (atleast thats what i've heard) so natural law is in place, which is against the killing of people.

There is no god, and it is natural rights, not natural law, that dictates human behavior.

Just a legal and moral one eh?

This is basically an appeal to tradition; euthanasia is not legal at the present time, so it is therefore wrong.

 

[tesla man 3]

I think legality is a pretty good reason not to do something like murder...
Or perhaps its morally wrong to most people because it's just that... morally wrong. Don't forget that the legality is based on the morality. Haha "a drone" nice Ad Hominem...



So it's okay for someone to rape a child, is that what you're saying? NAMBLA would love you! So how do we define right and wrong? would hitler be a saint then?

I am not saying legality isnt a good reason to not commit murder. But just because its illegal doesnt make it wrong. You dont seem to understand the concept that morals and legal ruling is man-made and that on a very base level, there is no right or wrong in nature.

First of all i did not say its ok to rape a child. Nor does paedophilia mean you rape a child. It could be voluntary. Historically, it was not uncommon for men to have sex with boys... needless to say girls. I didnt say good is bad and bad is good. therefore i didnt say hitler is a saint. You twist everything up to accommodate your own stance. What I am saying is, in the end, no one can REALLY say it is right or wrong. Only on a legal or moral basis can they make such an accusation. You are arrogant as a human. Its like medicine killing off a bunch of bacteria. Medicine is bad to bacteria and bacteria is bad to the medicine. Just because your on the same side as the medicine doesnt make medicine right. .... what you cant understand is that it doesnt make it wrong either.

 

[r4mmstein]

In what way?

Appeal to pity

Okay, but this doesn't address the issue of somebody suffering unbearable paint that is without a sufficient treatment.

See Above.

Plenty of terminally-ill patients are constantly suffering agonizing pain, yet it is illegal to put them out of this misery simply because they are homo sapiens.

Appeal to pity yet again...

This is basically an appeal to tradition; euthanasia is not legal at the present time, so it is therefore wrong.

No it's not, it's because at this current time the English legal system defines physician assisted suicide as murder.

Anyway i'm done on here, cya

 

[tesla man 3]

Anyway i'm done on here, cya

you have said this like 10 times and keep coming back.

you only portray your inability to compose yourself through emotion.

you cannot even dismiss a little temptation to maintain your original notion of leaving. nice.

 

[r4mmstein]

you have said this like 10 times and keep coming back.

you only portray your inability to compose yourself through emotion.

you cannot even dismiss a little temptation to maintain your original notion of leaving. nice.

No i think it's more from a response thats interesting. Don't forget, humans are fickle and change their minds, like i've done clearly.

 

[tesla man 3]

No i think it's more from a response thats interesting. Don't forget, humans are fickle and change their minds, like i've done clearly.

fickle? or easily manipulated.....?

i just made you change your mind and come back with a single sentence.

now imagine how easy it would be to manipulate the human mind to accept "morals" or legal ruling over time....

 

[Schutzengel]

I believe that assisted suicide is a great concept. It is unfortunate if someone is suffering so much that they would want to suicide, but in that case it would be better to allow them to end their suffering than to force them to continue through their torture.

 

[ScammersAreDumb]

That is a good point. We 'put animals out of their misery' for things as simple as a broken leg at times, yet we have people that are suffering with multiple physical and mental deformities, and are suffering a great deal more than a dog with a broken leg, yet we do everything humanly possible to keep this human living.

Human Life =/= Animal Life

Human life is much more precious, and that is why we go to greater lengths to protect it.

My views will and do change, and I can mould yours to as well.

Rebut if you will, I stand on the side of unalienable rights, you stand on the side of bad feelings.

Life is an unalienable right, taking it away is not.

It's not illegal to die...
Suicide (in some countries) is only illegal if you don't manage to kill yourself... obviously.
Whats illegal here is physician aided suicide, in that a doctor gives you poison, so it's more akin to murder than suicide

It is not illegal to commit suicide, but if you think you can just walk outside and try to kill yourself, and there won't be any consequences of that action, then you are very sadly mistaken.

 

[Trinity19]

Human Life =/= Animal Life

Human life is much more precious, and that is why we go to greater lengths to protect it.

What makes a human life more precious? Because humans say so? Please, we have a natural idea that we are important because we have to. I think the words of George Carlin explain this perfectly.

But don't be giving me all this shit about the sanctity of life. I mean, even if there were such a thing, I don't think it's something you can blame on God. No, you know where the sanctity of life came from? We made it up. You know why? 'Cuz we're alive. Self-interest. Living people have a strong interest in promoting the idea that somehow life is sacred. You don't see Abbott and Costello running around, talking about this shit, do you? We're not hearing a whole lot from Musolini on the subject. What's the latest from JFK? Not a goddamn thing. 'Cuz JFK, Musolini and Abbott and Costello are fucking dead. They're fucking dead. And dead people give less than a shit about the sanctity of life. Only living people care about it so the whole thing grows out of a completely biased point of view. It's a self serving, man-made bullshit story.

It's one of these things we tell ourselves so we'll feel noble. Life is sacred. Makes you feel noble. Well let me ask you this: if everything that ever lived is dead, and everything alive is gonna die, where does the sacred part come in? I'm having trouble with that. 'Cuz, I mean, even with all this stuff we preach about the sanctity of life, we don't practice it. We don't practice it. Look at what we'd kill: Mosquitos and flies. 'Cuz they're pests. Lions and tigers. 'Cuz it's fun! Chickens and pigs. 'Cuz we're hungry. Pheasants and quails. 'Cuz it's fun. And we're hungry. And people. We kill people... 'Cuz they're pests. And it's fun!

And you might have noticed something else. The sanctity of life doesn't seem to apply to cancer cells, does it? You rarely see a bumper sticker that says 'Save the tumors.'. Or 'I brake for advanced melanoma.'. No, viruses, mold, mildew, maggots, fungus, weeds, E. Coli bacteria, the crabs. Nothing sacred about those things. So at best the sanctity of life is kind of a selective thing. We get to choose which forms of life we feel are sacred, and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal, huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole fucking thing up! Made it up! The same way... thank you.

Life is an unalienable right, taking it away is not.

Who says? Last time I checked it's you life, not anyone elses. If you don't want life then it loses that idea of it being a right and becomes a forced idea, an oppressive idea.

It is not illegal to commit suicide, but if you think you can just walk outside and try to kill yourself, and there won't be any consequences of that action, then you are very sadly mistaken.

It is illegal to attempt suicide, because people believe you have a chemical imbalance which makes you want to kill yourself. Ridiculous, while yes this does happen it's also not impossible for someone to just want to die.

Honestly if I wasn't so curious about learning about so many things I don't know about, I would kill myself because I see no point in going through life just to have it end in nothingness. The only reason I don't is because I have an insatiable curiosity to learn about myths such as greek religion, norse,christianity,islam, etc and sciences and history,but there are some people out there who don't have/want anything more with life. So why not let them end it?

Also I want you to imagine something for me.
Imagine you we in a horrible accident. In this accident you lost both your arms and legs. You also lost your hearing and sight. Now you are bed ridden forever, can't see or hear, and are in unimaginable pain for the rest of your life that to even get to sleep you have to be drugged, otherwise you would just be screaming from the pain until you passed out, until you reawoke later with the pain coming back full force. It feels renewed, that peace your body had when it was asleep is now gone and you must suffer through it as if it were the first time you felt it.
If this were you would you not ask for death? And if it was someone else could you look at them and say they shouldn't die because it is their so called "right" to live in this real life hell?

 

[Snow Patrol]

I applaud this man for what he did.

 

[malakadang]

Life is an unalienable right, taking it away is not.

That is actually incorrect. Right to life necessitates that humans should never take the life of another humans. This is absolute folly. If someone attacks me with a knife, I will not hesitate to kill them. Right to life is not unalienable, it is only something advocated by pro-life socialist scums.

It is not illegal to commit suicide, but if you think you can just walk outside and try to kill yourself, and there won't be any consequences of that action, then you are very sadly mistaken.

When your dead your dead, there are no consequences for you apart from death.

 

[r4mmstein]

"pro-life socialist scums" I'm pretty sure socialists are more pro-choice rather than life?

 

[Parox]

I think if the person wants to commit suicide and they are going to die anyway, then they should get to choose what they want..
I personally would rather someone kill me rather than sit in a hospital bed for months suffering.

Doesn't everyone die anyway ?
Does that mean everyone has the right for suicide ?

 

[malakadang]

"pro-life socialist scums" I'm pretty sure socialists are more pro-choice rather than life?

Socialists are the destruction of man kind, they hold that everyone is equal. You are equal to the person who just murdered your wife, and raped your child.

Socialists are certainly not pro-choice, they're pro-equality, which unfortunately has tainted their minds.

Doesn't everyone die anyway ?
Does that mean everyone has the right for suicide ?

Everyone has the right to do what they want with their own body. Is this in question?

 

[Zerk Perk]

i dont think the government should be able to stop people from killing their selves, because its their choice and he was just trying to help people die peacefully and he had good intentions

 

[dangelo]

Property rights. I own my body, I am free to do whatever I want with it. Suicide is not illegal

I think you will find that suicide is illegal in most countries.

 

[malakadang]

I think you will find that suicide is illegal in most countries.

I believe it has been decriminalized in numerous countries. Could you enlighten me as to the countries that have it illegal please?

Also, regardless, it seems pretty moot anyone if it is to be illegal. What are they going to do? Drag his corpse to court, and give him a posthumous convictions? I think not. If he failed in his attempt, then he hasn't really committed suicide has he, merely fallen off a building, etc.

 

[Trinity19]

I believe it has been decriminalized in numerous countries. Could you enlighten me as to the countries that have it illegal please?

Also, regardless, it seems pretty moot anyone if it is to be illegal. What are they going to do? Drag his corpse to court, and give him a posthumous convictions? I think not. If he failed in his attempt, then he hasn't really committed suicide has he, merely fallen off a building, etc.

Eh I think its attempted suicide thats illegal considering actual suicide is kinda hard to punish someone for XD
It's only illegal because people value human lives so highly that they think noone would ever want to give it up so if someone tries they must have a chemical or psychological problem. Which does happen, don't get me wrong, but is just wanting to die so...impossible?

 

[malakadang]

Eh I think its attempted suicide thats illegal considering actual suicide is kinda hard to punish someone for XD
It's only illegal because people value human lives so highly that they think noone would ever want to give it up so if someone tries they must have a chemical or psychological problem. Which does happen, don't get me wrong, but is just wanting to die so...impossible?

Attempted suicide being illegal would still be silly.

You could argue that you weren't attempting to suicide.
You could argue that you had a diminished capacity.

Even still, on the side of rights, and not law, you can do what you please with your own body.

 

[Trinity19]

Attempted suicide being illegal would still be silly.

You could argue that you weren't attempting to suicide.
You could argue that you had a diminished capacity.

Even still, on the side of rights, and not law, you can do what you please with your own body.

Oh it is, but they get around it by bringing you in for "being a harm to yourself" which hard to disprove if you willingly jumped off say...a bridge with shallow water and lived. You could say you fell but if they find any evidence showing you in complete control then bam you get sent to the loony bin and drugged up.