Do you Support Alternative Punishments?

[FireZ]

Alternative punishments, usually used in place of jail time. For example - the woman who had to cook thanksgiving dinner for 3 cops.


Do you support these punishments or not? Use examples whenever you can.

 

[rue]

I support multiple punishments instead of jail sentences along with probationary periods if the crime is minor. Apparently the woman was on trial for reckless driving, personally that seems like a crime that should be irredeemable with an alternative punishment. However, I'm not a judge nor do I plan to become one so ultimately I'm left to agree with the alternative punishment he gave her. Something such as vandalism for youth is handled with restitution, anything on that level seems understandable in my eyes.

 

[blazinfasstt]

since when did the SFA become a forum for expressing our "like" for certain punishments?

this belongs in general if we are going to talk solely about our feelings.

on topic:
according to the eight amendment of the constitution, it shouldnt happen, as it is very unusual.

these types of punishments are not allowed due to the potential humiliation, suffering or pain it may inflict.

this is a principle used when deciding whether punishments are cruel or unusual.
"A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary fashion."








SFA is dead

 

[Emperor Nero]

I support them for a few reasons:
We have a seriously flawed penal system that doesn't reform criminals
By sending people to jail/prison tax money is going to support them, and even worse if the jail/prison is privately ran they're used as slave labor essentially.
Alternative punishments are generally shame based, and it makes people think twice before committing petty crimes. (vandalism and the such.)


This thread should be more of a debate on the merits of alternative punishments and not personal opinions concerning them.

 

[TeHBesTSkateR]

I don't like this world period. Everybody is a back-stabber, so fuck it no friends.

 

[FireZ]

since when did the SFA become a forum for expressing our "like" for certain punishments?

this belongs in general if we are going to talk solely about our feelings.

Didnt read the OP apparently

on topic:
according to the eight amendment of the constitution, it shouldnt happen, as it is very unusual.

these types of punishments are not allowed due to the potential humiliation, suffering or pain it may inflict.

this is a principle used when deciding whether punishments are cruel or unusual.
"A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary fashion."

Sometimes they can be better then jail time though.

 

[FireZ]

I don't like this world period. Everybody is a back-stabber, so fuck it no friends.

And infraction. Please post relevant to the topic at hand....

 

[Emperor Nero]

according to the eight amendment of the constitution, it shouldnt happen, as it is very unusual.

these types of punishments are not allowed due to the potential humiliation, suffering or pain it may inflict.

this is a principle used when deciding whether punishments are cruel or unusual.
"A severe punishment that is obviously inflicted in wholly arbitrary fashion."

Entirely untrue. Unusual is a subjective term. I think it is unusual that people would get locked up in a cell with no human contact save for an hour a day. How is that supposed to punish anyone - making them sit and ruminate with their thoughts? They still do it though. It comes down to a court decision and I am sure if I looked I could find many decisions and precedents set on cruel and unusual punishment.

Arbitrary -

If a judge can easily prove that there is lesson, moral, or character reform meant to be taught through the punishment then it clearly isn't arbitrarily given. It all comes down to the wording a lot of times.

The important part of the article you quoted would be this (the actual test):

The test, then, will ordinarily be a cumulative one: if a punishment is unusually severe, if there is a strong probability that it is inflicted arbitrarily, if it is substantially rejected by contemporary society, and if there is no reason to believe that it serves any penal purpose more effectively than some less severe punishment, then the continued infliction of that punishment violates the command of the Clause that the State may not inflict inhuman and uncivilized punishments upon those convicted of crimes."

 

[blazinfasstt]

Entirely untrue. Unusual is a subjective term. I think it is unusual that people would get locked up in a cell with no human contact save for an hour a day. How is that supposed to punish anyone - making them sit and ruminate with their thoughts? They still do it though. It comes down to a court decision and I am sure if I looked I could find many decisions and precedents set on cruel and unusual punishment.

Arbitrary -

If a judge can easily prove that there is lesson, moral, or character reform meant to be taught through the punishment then it clearly isn't arbitrarily given. It all comes down to the wording a lot of times.

The important part of the article you quoted would be this (the actual test):

are you seriously arguing that forcing someone to cook meals for cops is not arbitrary?

here is it's first definition in merriam websters dictionary

: depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law <the manner of punishment is arbitrary>

it is definitely arbitrary.

as for unusual, people are usually sent to solitary for doing something bad. whereas, this is the first time I have EVER heard of someone being forced to cook dinner for cops.

there is strong reason to believe it was done arbitrarily.




also, usual is only subjective if you limit your perspective to your own.

if you consider all the facts, usual is just what occurs frequently.

judges forcing ppl to cook dinner for cops does not happen frequently at all.

Didnt read the OP apparently




Sometimes they can be better then jail time though.

how did I not read the OP???

you clearly asked us what we "like"


this isnt a forum to discuss things we "like"

according to sythe, that is what the spam forum is for.

 

[Emperor Nero]

are you seriously arguing that forcing someone to cook meals for cops is not arbitrary?

here is it's first definition in merriam websters dictionary
: depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law <the manner of punishment is arbitrary>
it is definitely arbitrary.
as for unusual, people are usually sent to solitary for doing something bad. whereas, this is the first time I have EVER heard of someone being forced to cook dinner for cops.
there is strong reason to believe it was done arbitrarily.
also, usual is only subjective if you limit your perspective to your own.
if you consider all the facts, usual is just what occurs frequently.
judges forcing ppl to cook dinner for cops does not happen frequently at all.

But you have to do the test that was included in the article you only partly referenced. It is part of a precedent set and is therefore followed under the legal doctrine of stare decisis set forth in the common law system. (Where a good majority of our law comes from.)

1. A punishment is unusually severe - No
2. if there is a strong probability that it is inflicted arbitrarily - You'd need to read the decision by the judge to decide, and even then it is probably just considered a community service operation. (Much like picking up trash along the highway, that would be more degrating to me than cooking a meal.)
3. if it is substantially rejected by contemporary society - Cooking dinner for a group of police officers can be, and probably was considered a community service and in no way would contemporary society reject it. Most would contend she got off really easy for her charges.
4. if there is no reason to believe that it serves any penal purpose more effectively than some less severe punishment - I would assume there is no lesser punishment than just cooking for someone. It takes what, a few hours at most?

As I've stated twice now: It could easily be considered a community service. Also we are going on a new report, I am sure you haven't read the decision by the judge in detail or haven't seen the transcripts. I know I haven't so I am just basing my judgement on the information presented. I don't see how cooking a dinner is anymore unusual than forced labor.

None of the pieces of her punishment could be so construed by modern sensibilities that it could be considered cruel and unusual.

 

[Divine_God]

Prisons need to stop being (for profit) places that simply incarcerate people and punish them for their bad deeds. If anything the job of the prison is to make sure said individual doesn't return to the same actions by the time they are set free. Personally I don't see how locking someone up in a cell with little to no human contact is preferable to alternative punishments. That being said the alternative punishment needs to serve a purpose, not just be an alternate form of punishment.

how did I not read the OP???

you clearly asked us what we "like"


this isnt a forum to discuss things we "like"

according to sythe, that is what the spam forum is for.

Calm down and discuss the topic. A thread about drugs/religion/homosexuality could ask if you "like" the idea of it. Your response, however, can't be limited to your emotion on the matter.

 

[Annex]

Depends on the offense, for example possession of marijuana or any other drug (without intent to sell) I find that an alternative punishment is acceptable as they are just looking to get high and its sort of a victimless crime.

I suppose I guess saying a victimless crime should be able to have alternative punishment is what I sort of stand for. I don't agree with famous people getting these alternative sentences for more serious crimes like insider trading and DUI's (DWI).

 

[Exacerbate]

I support these rather odd punishments only under the circumstance that the crimes committed weren't severe. Also, the imprisoned should have a say on whether they'd like to do it or not, one shall not be forced to do anything because it falls under cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[mage3158]

how did I not read the OP???

you clearly asked us what we "like"


this isnt a forum to discuss things we "like"

according to sythe, that is what the spam forum is for.

I agree with this, this isn't SFA material.

Anywho, some of these alternative sentences make absolutely no sense what so ever. It's not rehabilitation to make someone cook dinner for cops.

Alternative sentences involving actual community service on the other hand tend to be very successful, encourage good behaviors, and in the end actually make sense and really leave no room for argument on whether or not they're "unusual".

 

[blazinfasstt]

But you have to do the test that was included in the article you only partly referenced. It is part of a precedent set and is therefore followed under the legal doctrine of stare decisis set forth in the common law system. (Where a good majority of our law comes from.)

1. A punishment is unusually severe - No
2. if there is a strong probability that it is inflicted arbitrarily - You'd need to read the decision by the judge to decide, and even then it is probably just considered a community service operation. (Much like picking up trash along the highway, that would be more degrating to me than cooking a meal.)
3. if it is substantially rejected by contemporary society - Cooking dinner for a group of police officers can be, and probably was considered a community service and in no way would contemporary society reject it. Most would contend she got off really easy for her charges.
4. if there is no reason to believe that it serves any penal purpose more effectively than some less severe punishment - I would assume there is no lesser punishment than just cooking for someone. It takes what, a few hours at most?

As I've stated twice now: It could easily be considered a community service. Also we are going on a new report, I am sure you haven't read the decision by the judge in detail or haven't seen the transcripts. I know I haven't so I am just basing my judgement on the information presented. I don't see how cooking a dinner is anymore unusual than forced labor.

None of the pieces of her punishment could be so construed by modern sensibilities that it could be considered cruel and unusual.

can you come up with one single other example EVER of a judge ordering a woman to cook thanksgiving dinner for cops?

if you can, I would agree that it was not as unusual as it seems.

if you cannot, then it is definately unusual punishment.



usual simply depends on the frequency in which it occurs.

so..... is this the first time it has occurred?

 

[FireZ]

Changed the OP around a little bit to try to get this more towards SFA material....

 

[blazinfasstt]

Prisons need to stop being (for profit) places that simply incarcerate people and punish them for their bad deeds. If anything the job of the prison is to make sure said individual doesn't return to the same actions by the time they are set free. Personally I don't see how locking someone up in a cell with little to no human contact is preferable to alternative punishments. That being said the alternative punishment needs to serve a purpose, not just be an alternate form of punishment.




Calm down and discuss the topic. A thread about drugs/religion/homosexuality could ask if you "like" the idea of it. Your response, however, can't be limited to your emotion on the matter.

the thing is that those threads didnt ask us what we liked.

they had actual debates that were not based on feelings.

this is the SFA and there are rules against making threads based purely on feelings int his section.

seriously, the rules are sticky'd up top for all to read but no one to enforce.

 

[Athlete]

It would only make sense to have them do something productive with there time while they are "doing there time". A jail is meaningless (what they do in it), it associates them with more bad people, and they are practically sitting there, getting fed 3 meals a day, with gym access, recreation time, and so on. We're paying for them to sit there. They should have to work for there money to be able to eat, and do hard labor/work 15 hours a day. The only exceptions would be if they were violent, like murderers, rapists, etc, they should stay locked in their cells, but give them work to do, and if they don't do it, they go to solitary confinement.

By the way, community service is shit. Over 90% of the people don't even do the work, you can forge a community service slip so easily. I know this because I had multiple people do it that I knew. They were assigned like 50 or something hours, and they did about 5 of them. Not in just one state either, both the states I've lived at, it's easy as pie.

 

[Lame]

Depends. really. They can be over the top sometimes but as long as they are not violent offenders and it saves tax payers money then im all for it.


P.S where the fook my cred.

 

[Athlete]

^^ what? Care to elaborate a little more? There are still ways for violent offenders to contribute other than sitting in a cell. You could simply have them sewing clothes together for less fortunate people or for Good-Will. There would have to be a trey they would put the needle etc when they're done in order for them to leave the cell for breakfast/lunch/dinner , but they could be doing tons of things other than sitting in there cell all day doing nothing. Like somebody's going to be doing 10 years in prison, it would only make sense for them to contribute something while they're in there instead of sitting in a cell all day. Maybe even have a list of activities and they could pick one, and that is what they would have to do every day while they're in. I would make it hard and libelous so they don't get comfortable with it, but it would possibly change there style of doing things and when they get out they would possibly have a career to look into, instead of going straight back to the streets or what not.


So say somebody's in for 5 years for drug charges

They get to choose an option out of 3 things that they can work 15+ hours a day on, with minimum breaks (not certain about the time). So say like, carving, crafting, or repairing. Idk just some ideas, but there time in jail would revolve around that, and they would do whatever there category was until they got out. So when they get out, they would actually be good at something, and want to pursue it, or they'd be a lot more likely to get a job somewhere that revolves around the category they picked, instead of going straight to the streets again and getting involved in the drug dealing, gangs, thug life. Most people deal drugs because there's no other jobs they can get.

Again, there would have to be safety precautions set if this were to happen (a trey that's checked before they leave, cameras, solitary confinement for not following the rules).

If they refused to do it, they would be put in solitary confinement. The work they'd be doing would be helping other people, but it would be helping themselves more than anything.