Disputing my workers ban for alleged blackhat Activities

[RSGoldstop]

Hi,

Just recently, my worker Bus369 was banned for alleged blackhat activities. After inspecting the evidence in this case and having some extra information available to me, I truly believe that the verdict in this case was handed out prematurely and would like a second opinion in the matter. It is my understanding that the member Gyzo was in a transaction with my worker and Gyzo's internet was acting up. Why would my worker DDoS someone he was expecting money from? This does not make any sense. Even so, if he was truly DDoS'd, he would use his phone to let my worker know? The behavior that Gyzo was showing looks like what a scammer would do. He scammed the gold and then logged off until my worker "threatened" to call his parents to retrieve his stolen goods.

Blade, the moderator in charge of this scam, stated to me on Skype that his reason for banning Bus was:

The thing is, we don't really need to show anyone evidence
[8:33:18 PM] Blade: No, there isn't another moderator assigned to this
[8:33:47 PM] Blade: Blackhat is pretty vague, but basically anything illegal in any way.
[8:33:56 PM] Blade: If he feels it's an error, dispute/pardon

I know that Bus asked Drento if DDoSing someone is against the rules, which upon learning to do so, he did not. When confronted by Gyzo if Bus was the person attacking his internet, Bus denied all allegations. Until concrete evidence of DDoS has surfaced, this ban is based entirely on speculation by the presiding moderator. Evidence would include: booter interest, hack forums participation, but simply asking if DDoSing someone in order to retrieve stolen goods is allowed should not be bannable.

Secondly, there was alleged "doxing" of information. Threatening to call someones parents IS NOT illegal! he is simply trying to collect his stolen property via someone that has influence on the scammer. All the information that he found was PUBLIC knowledge and freely available on the INTERNET. Of course, if he hacked anything or used social engineering to obtain PRIVATE information, he should be banned. Doxing would be releasing SENSITIVE information (Date of birth, SSN, etc). I would like to see evidence that he posted the scammers information elsewhere. Calling someone is not against the law in any country that I know of, and there's a reason why peoples' SVU information is released to victims of scams... Also, Blade told me that he had access to "IP grabbbing services." Resolvers are used by nearly everyone that trades on online black markets. It is not a crime to determine a persons' IP. It's a crime to manipulate it.

Also, I would like to mention that Bus is a very trustworthy person. he has had access to over $700 worth of my stock as a new employee and has not ran away with any of my funds. he obviously said things that can be perceived as blackhat in the heat of the moment. Anyone that has been scammed in the past can relate to the feeling of helplessness and desperation. Please understand that statements do not = actions unless tangible evidence of capability to perform the aforementioned actions is available.

If this ban goes through, this will mean a scammer will be let free and a trustworthy member trying to build a reputation in our community will be punished for a crime that he did not commit. Do not allow this injustice to stand.

 

[S]

I agree that calling someone's parents in order to make sure they pay/don't chargeback or whatnot is fine. Most large sellers take those precautions and follow up by doing it. Heck, loads of current members have done it in order to re-acquire items/funds that someone may have charged back. So yes, calling his parents isn't Doxing by any means.

I'm not familiar with the DDoS allegations, so I'll let Blade answer that.

 

[RSGoldstop]

I've asked my worker how long it was until the repayment occured. I'm not sure how ddosing works, but there should be sporadic times of availability for Gyzo to let him know that the internet was acting up. The only reason why Gyzo repaid him was due to the fact that my worker threatened to call his parents (which turns out, was a bluff). I want to see CONCRETE EVIDENCE before a permanent ban is issued,

 

[RSGoldstop]

Also, I would like to request a different mod to look at the dispute to get a second point of view.

 

I've asked my worker how long it was until the repayment occured. I'm not sure how ddosing works, but there should be sporadic times of availability for Gyzo to let him know that the internet was acting up. The only reason why Gyzo repaid him was due to the fact that my worker threatened to call his parents (which turns out, was a bluff). I want to see CONCRETE EVIDENCE before a permanent ban is issued,

As I've stated on Skype, you don't have the right to see why staff bans other members. I understand, as you've made it clear, that you're only concerned because this user has a lot of your money.

There have also apparently been blackhat allegations/reports in relations to this user before.

The user was online on Sythe when banned, there is no reason for you to be making this dispute. The fact that he didn't immediately dispute or attempt to contact me is a further hint of his guilt.

There's nothing wrong with threatening to call someone's parents if they are confirmed to be a scammer, there is something wrong with DDoS'ing, using Skype IP grabbers and DoXing. Of course, this information was not publically released (which is, iirc, the definition of doxing) but the threats were made, and it was quite obvious the intent existed.

As well, he made it known that his internet was acting up, and was offline. Whether or not Bus committed the DDoS'ing himself, he clearly has knowledge of how-to and has most likely done it before.

I will be requiring his input to this dispute before I go any further, I will also be researching the rumors of other blackhat activity.

 

[RSGoldstop]

The blackhat accusations were the exact same as the ones that banned him..it's the same case. There is still no concrete evidence of anything that constitutes blackhat. Sure you can't release the sensitive information but ar least provide some sort of explanation other than an all encompassing term like "blackhat." Also, he's been with his family for the past 5 hours or so, he didn't know he was banned until I told him. He will be online to defend himself within the hour. I just saw injustice and I will not let sythe be known as a forum without due process

 

I can assure that my judgement of this, and all cases, are conducted without malice, prejudice or bias in any way.

I will be available for discussion sporadically, as I have quite a busy schedule tomorrow.

It has been proven, historically, that users accused of similar offenses in unrelated circumstances are of guilt.

This ban is permanent, but that does not mean it will stay that way. There are plenty of methods to where this can end up, but temporary bans are applied to ensure users cannot cause harm during the investigation. You have maintained a nearly unblemished trading record through all of your business operations, and have always conducted said business in a thorough and professional manner. I will keep this in mind.

As for assigning a separate moderator, that's not exactly how things work. In cases where judgement is questioned, additional moderators will confer privately to maintain public image. Just because you don't see staff members debating in this thread over a user doesn't mean it's not happening.

The evidence that is not available will be presented in a cleansed-manner to all parties who require its viewing, unfortunately you are not among them.
All staff currently have access to the un-edited screenshots in the original dispute by Gyzo.

Feel free to post evidence to support the case in either way. This applies to all members, involved or not, though opinions from third parties are not needed.

I apologize, though, for the negative impact that this situation may have on your business model. We do not take kindly to showing injustice toward our market members, as you are what keeps Sythe.org alive. We take scamming, as well as all violations of our rules, very seriously. All details will be looked into further in the days to come. My public Skype is also available for discussion when I'm online.

 

[S]

There's nothing wrong with threatening to call someone's parents if they are confirmed to be a scammer, there is something wrong with DDoS'ing, using Skype IP grabbers and DoXing. Of course, this information was not publically released (which is, iirc, the definition of doxing) but the threats were made, and it was quite obvious the intent existed.

There is nothing wrong with calling them if they beleive they are not going to pay. That's one main reason why people (gold merchants) ask for a lot of personal info when selling/buying gold. Tonnes of well known, ex-staff, current staff ask for peoples names, numbers etc, and then if something were to happen/might happen, they follow through with said information. That's simply having security and assurances which everyone is entitled to.

Using Skype resolvers is not against the rules AFAIK. I hardly call it Doxing when it's general practice to have most information when selling gold via recoverable methods.

I'm not sure about the DDoSing (if it occurred or not), but all the other allegations aren't ban worthy.

 

There is nothing wrong with calling them if they beleive they are not going to pay. That's one main reason why people (gold merchants) ask for a lot of personal info when selling/buying gold. Tonnes of well known, ex-staff, current staff ask for peoples names, numbers etc, and then if something were to happen/might happen, they follow through with said information. That's simply having security and assurances which everyone is entitled to.

Using Skype resolvers is not against the rules AFAIK. I hardly call it Doxing when it's general practice to have most information when selling gold via recoverable methods.

I'm not sure about the DDoSing (if it occurred or not), but all the other allegations aren't ban worthy.

I believe we're at an agreement on your first point already.

As far as nothing else being a problem, threatening to report in-game accounts and the DDoS chat logs are still an issue to me. I was also not aware that IP grabbers were allowed on Sythe, as it opens a door to malicious activity.

As far as lifting the ban, after reviewing all information I feel it may be appropriate, but I'm not completely sold. I believe we still have enough evidence to support a blackhat. Whether or not a TWC should be applied is still in the air, will talk to you/others about it.

 

[RSGoldstop]

Did you guys delete all the pics ?

 

I'm still wondering why you're posting, and Bus hasn't said a single thing?
I've hidden your posts to staff-only. I'm starting to get annoyed at this point. I've continuously stated that I am not releasing the logs from this report, as there is no reason for anyone to have them. You're posting them online when staff already have full access.

As well, you've cut out the most important bits, where Bus shows detailed personal information, down to family member names and exact pinpoint of location/IP/computer info/login names, etc. All of these are evidence of SE/blackhat. Along with our outside proof of DDoS'ing interest, I am standing by my original decision.

Staff are currently discussing this case. Unless there is new information or Bus decides he'd like to discuss his own ban, please do not waste our time.

Previous ban - http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1754374-tos-breaker-bus369.html

Bus has just added me on Skype, and I'll be discussing things with him.

 

Alright, I've been talking to Bus for awhile now.

Gyzo seems to have some very "interesting" trading habits, including going first to another member directly afterwards whom he believed just DDoS'ed him.

After looking through everything, there is no way to 100% determine what happened.

Whether or not Gyzo was DDoS'ed, there is zero evidence to support Bus or any associates as being the guilty party.

It is being looked into, currently, to determine if the entire DDoS claims were made when a "scamquit" had gone sour, something that's happened a few times before. If there are any other allegations against Gyzo for scamming, I urge users to report them.

Bus, I'll be requesting your unban after this post, and we're going to go through with both unbans. Gyzo's tradit habits are being analyzed at the moment, specifically around the time of this trade, but there is currently no evidence to support any wrongdoings there.

This dispute is completed.