Dispute Over Rights

[The Supreme Intelligence]

The USA claim since prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are not citizens, they do not have the same essential rights as normal prisoners would have(right to a fair trial, etc). Let's say that this is fine, since it isn't effecting us. But what about immigrants residing in the US? Does that mean since immigrants aren't citizens, they don't have the same duties or rights as normal Americans do? If so, this would mean that they don't have to pay taxes; not only that, but this would mean that they are not offered protection under the constitution. But we all know that this is not the case. Immigrants pay their taxes, and are somewhat protected by the government. This sets a double standard: the USA says that prisoners at Guantanamo do not have any rights due to their nationality, but people from the same foreign country as the people in these prisons are forced to pay taxes even though they are not citizens. How can this be? It is not a matter of where you are, because Guantanamo Bay and other detention camps are classified as US territory.

Debate intelligently.

 

[The_Ace]

Well since the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are different then regular prisoners they obviously aren't treated the same as regular prisoners. However i think this is something that the American Justice system needs to make better, like what exactly are some rights illegal cizitens have if any.

 

[Shredderbeam]

The USA claim since prisoners at Guantanamo Bay are not citizens, they do not have the same essential rights as normal prisoners would have(right to a fair trial, etc). Let's say that this is fine, since it isn't effecting us. But what about immigrants residing in the US? Does that mean since immigrants aren't citizens, they don't have the same duties or rights as normal Americans do? If so, this would mean that they don't have to pay taxes; not only that, but this would mean that they are not offered protection under the constitution. But we all know that this is not the case. Immigrants pay their taxes, and are somewhat protected by the government. This sets a double standard: the USA says that prisoners at Guantanamo do not have any rights due to their nationality, but people from the same foreign country as the people in these prisons are forced to pay taxes even though they are not citizens. How can this be? It is not a matter of where you are, because Guantanamo Bay and other detention camps are classified as US territory.

Debate intelligently.

Guantanamo Bay is a stain upon humanity. It is one of the filthiest things that I have ever heard of. To try and find a work around to the Geneva Convention is a disgusting thing to do.

Torture of anybody, no matter who it is, is a highly immoral thing to do. Every single human being, regardless of who they are, has basic human rights. They cannot be denied to anybody, ever.

To claim that their torture is slightly less of an abomination because they are not U.S. citizens is to imply that U.S. citizens are somehow above the rest of the world. Are they the "chosen people"? Are they inherently worth more than others? Absolutely not!

If England began torturing Americans, claiming their lack of English citizenship as a basis for doing so, would the U.S. government do something about it? You had better believe they would! It would be all the media would talk about for months, if not years!

The conditions in Guantanamo Bay are abhorrent. Basically, any form of torture that doesn't technically violate the legal definition of torture is fair game. There are even court cases where the U.S. government is actively trying to bend the definitions as much as possible!

Detainees are allegedly being deprived of sleep, food, water, being forced to take "truth drugs", the lights are on 24/7 (very bright lights at that), loud noises are played, etc. If you want to know more, do the research yourself.

This is madness. This is legalized torture. Bush and his cronies, if they so wished, can designate any single person within the borders of the U.S. (and without, too) a security threat, have you deported to Guantanamo Bay, tortured, and guess what? Nobody will ever hear. The media won't hear about it. Word will not get out. You will be royally fucked.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

The Ace, prisoners are prisoners. Although you may believe that they are different, when it all comes down to it, what classifies someone as a prisoner? A prisoner is someone who has done something wrong with enough evidence to prove that he, in fact, has done something wrong and is serving time in prison for it. It does not matter what the crime is; that only differs in the time you should be serving, or if you get the death penalty. But prisoners are prisoners. They don't just get treated differently depending on their crime. So what makes them different from regular prisoners The Ace? Their crime? Or is it their nationality? Because I am sure that there are other people with the SAME nationality serving time in prison on the main land, but are not being treated the way Guantanamo Bay people are being treated.

That is exactly what I am saying Shredder. Well if we all agree, since I haven't found anyone who hasn't disagreed yet, how can there be a discussion?

 

[The_Ace]

The Ace, prisoners are prisoners. Although you may believe that they are different, when it all comes down to it, what classifies someone as a prisoner? A prisoner is someone who has done something wrong with enough evidence to prove that he, in fact, has done something wrong and is serving time in prison for it. It does not matter what the crime is; that only differs in the time you should be serving, or if you get the death penalty. But prisoners are prisoners. They don't just get treated differently depending on their crime. So what makes them different from regular prisoners The Ace? Their crime? Or is it their nationality? Because I am sure that there are other people with the SAME nationality serving time in prison on the main land, but are not being treated the way Guantanamo Bay people are being treated.

That is exactly what I am saying Shredder. Well if we all agree, since I haven't found anyone who hasn't disagreed yet, how can there be a discussion?

What you say isn't true. Ever heard of a things called solitude, it's yet worse than regular prison setting. Besides, you think a minimum security and a maximum secruity prison have the same rules and boundaries. You think it's the same experience. Obviously not.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

I have heard of a "things" called solitude. But what does living alone have to do with what the topic at stake here? There is a clear line between rules and boundaries, and illegal assault and battery; which is precisely what happens in there prisons.

All your post said was that what I said isn't true. You provided no proof and no opinion, therefore you're argue is nonexistent.

 

[EL17E]

Well, what you said is true. They tortured many prisoners so badly that they are in a very unstable mental state. Guatanamo Bay isn't even like regular prisons at all. It's a very filthy place with unhumanitary conditions. Most people don't even get a fair trial to begin with. Think of it as "Hell on Earth".

 

[1337_Byte]

Think of it as "Hell on Earth".

Ever played Doom 2?

Anyways, no matter how bad a crime people commit, they should not be tortured. Torturing people is extremely unnecessary and inhumane, people should either be detained or executed, not tortured.

 

[selling guide]

Guantanamo Bay is a stain upon humanity. It is one of the filthiest things that I have ever heard of. To try and find a work around to the Geneva Convention is a disgusting thing to do.

Torture of anybody, no matter who it is, is a highly immoral thing to do. Every single human being, regardless of who they are, has basic human rights. They cannot be denied to anybody, ever.

To claim that their torture is slightly less of an abomination because they are not U.S. citizens is to imply that U.S. citizens are somehow above the rest of the world. Are they the "chosen people"? Are they inherently worth more than others? Absolutely not!

If England began torturing Americans, claiming their lack of English citizenship as a basis for doing so, would the U.S. government do something about it? You had better believe they would! It would be all the media would talk about for months, if not years!

The conditions in Guantanamo Bay are abhorrent. Basically, any form of torture that doesn't technically violate the legal definition of torture is fair game. There are even court cases where the U.S. government is actively trying to bend the definitions as much as possible!

Detainees are allegedly being deprived of sleep, food, water, being forced to take "truth drugs", the lights are on 24/7 (very bright lights at that), loud noises are played, etc. If you want to know more, do the research yourself.

This is madness. This is legalized torture. Bush and his cronies, if they so wished, can designate any single person within the borders of the U.S. (and without, too) a security threat, have you deported to Guantanamo Bay, tortured, and guess what? Nobody will ever hear. The media won't hear about it. Word will not get out. You will be royally fucked.

Fully agreed. With one addition. Immigrants that aren't legal do not pay taxes. To the US government, they don't even exist unless they've been in trouble for something. How do you think they pay taxes if they aren't even registered?

 

[1337_Byte]

Taxes are a very stupid idea anyways. The government should get their own funding instead of stealing stuff from citizens.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Taxes are a very stupid idea anyways. The government should get their own funding instead of stealing stuff from citizens.

How would the government gain money without taxes?

 

[TJ]

Taxes are a very stupid idea anyways. The government should get their own funding instead of stealing stuff from citizens.

Ok, so when you complain about a road not being paved again, when you complain about a bridge being out, etc. and there are no taxes, dont complain.

taxes help fix this stuff, and taxes are good.

and you get most of your taxes back from work..every year..

ive been working for a year.

payed 200$ in taxes to federal

im getting all of it back.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

Don't even get me started about taxes. If you are complaining about taxes in the US, you have no clue what happens around the world; at least the taxes you pay provide you with services. In Egypt(where I currently reside), the taxes you pay provide the dictorial President and his family with more money to buy cars and helicopters- the money goes into their pockets directly. You ask, what about the streets? I answer, the streets are no exception. There is not one street here in Cairo that does not contain a pothole. Most contain potholes almost every 10 meters, and others have irregular speed bumps which seem to be almost purposely made to ruin your car. Don't complain about taxes, at least you get something out of them. Don't complain about anything, because there is almost always something worse than what you're going through.

 

[Louder]

I thought that Torture was illegal?
But guessing as the Guantanamo bay have not got human rights. They can not stand up and tell the Earth how it is.
Torture to anybody,No matter what they did should not be lacked of sleep,food,water And TORTURED! thats an inhumane.

 

[EL17E]

Ever played Doom 2?

Anyways, no matter how bad a crime people commit, they should not be tortured. Torturing people is extremely unnecessary and inhumane, people should either be detained or executed, not tortured.

Oh, but Guatanamo Bay is much more worse.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

Well we all share the same opinion, minus well stop trying to revamp the topic again.

 

[Magic Arrow]

Guantanamo Is the filthiest thing i've heard of since hitlers gas stations