[DENIED] Previous offences log

[Time Crunch]

As I'm sure everyone is aware, most of the "trusted" users on this site have previously been banned, or have black marks on their accounts. Although I do agree people change (like 5% of the time..) I think that you should implement a system so that the black marks will follow the users.

When someone commits a crime IRL, all of their crimes go into a database and anyone can look at their previous offences. Since we have a pardon system, and many users on this site have pardoned previous offences, why don't we already have a system like this?? It's important for users to know who they're dealing with.

If you disagree with having this system in place, then you obviously don't have, and have never had good intentions for this site.

Be the change you want to see.

 

[King Joey]

Ah, now were getting somewhere.

Maybe under 'Locations' or somewhere along the line could be listed as whatever name (Blackmarks, previous blackmarks, etc).
Like this:

'Blackmarks: 8' and you'll be able to click on the numbers that indicates the previous reports, etc.
It would only be visible if some actually scammed someone. I wouldn't necessary have it visible if someone was flaming or did something against the rules but didn't get them banned maybe?

I'm gonna go forward and support this.

 

[Pendulum]

When someone commits a crime IRL, all of their crimes go into a database and anyone can look at their previous offences. Since we have a pardon system, and many users on this site have pardoned previous offences, why don't we already have a system like this?? It's important for users to know who they're dealing with.

I don't know if you're unaware, but we currently have this exact system. If you wish to investigate a user you can search up their name in Report a Scammer Archive and Dispute Forum Archive, you will find any previous offences. This is specifically why we do not delete or remove unique identifying information from threads, they can be used to assess someone in the future.

As for your suggestion, the pardon system is a clean slate. We want to promote users to amend their past mistakes so that the victims have a chance of getting their money back. Having a mark on their profile will discourage users from making things right and will encourage continuous ban evasion.

 

[Time Crunch]

Ah, now were getting somewhere.

Maybe under 'Locations' or somewhere along the line could be listed as whatever name (Blackmarks, previous blackmarks, etc).
Like this:

'Blackmarks: 8' and you'll be able to click on the numbers that indicates the previous reports, etc.
It would only be visible if some actually scammed someone. I wouldn't necessary have it visible if someone was flaming or did something against the rules but didn't get them banned maybe?

I'm gonna go forward and support this.

My original vision for this idea was just to make it easier for the general community to see who they are trading with. As of now, there is no way for us to see who has previous offenses. That’s a scary thought for me.

If someone was banned, and had to pardon, this information should be readily available for the community to see. Aka on the users profile.

The offence(s) committed should be shown, and the amount scammed should be shown.

 

[Time Crunch]

I don't know if you're unaware, but we currently have this exact system. If you wish to investigate a user you can search up their name in Report a Scammer Archive and Dispute Forum Archive, you will find any previous offences. This is specifically why we do not delete or remove unique identifying information from threads, they can be used to assess someone in the future.

As for your suggestion, the pardon system is a clean slate. We want to promote users to amend their past mistakes so that the victims have a chance of getting their money back. Having a mark on their profile will discourage users from making things right and will encourage continuous ban evasion.

Exactly my point. I was aware of this, but new users will not know of this system. & unfortunately I disagree with you. How many times are we going to slap someone on the hand and allow them to come back? This site has an issue with letting diseased users back onto the site to continue their agenda of scamming.

Having their list of offenses on their profile will help keep the general users safe. As of now, it’s like a hidden feature that would be difficult for those unaware.

 

[Lexus]

Agreed, I think it would be useful to be able to search any user from within your user center and see all reports made against them and any that were valid.

 

[Pain]

Exactly my point. I was aware of this, but new users will not know of this system. & unfortunately I disagree with you. How many times are we going to slap someone on the hand and allow them to come back? This site has an issue with letting diseased users back onto the site to continue their agenda of scamming.

Having their list of offenses on their profile will help keep the general users safe. As of now, it’s like a hidden feature that would be difficult for those unaware.

Letting users come back after a host of offences is the only thing that has kept this site out of the ground.

Nearly every big trader - Staff or anyone of importance has a bad history or a very questionable past - I think anyone who reads this would agree that while not everyone does - the vast majority do.

This majority is the only thing keeping this forum funded - members in its teams and traffic coming to this site.

There's a reason systems and shaming(such as a offences log) have moved to being more and more generous versus more and more strict and Nazi like.

This is nothing to do with the actual principle of a punishment log; it is what it would be used for that's the issue.

Users would use others punishment logs to name them, shame them, harass them, cause them grief, etc. This would be the overwhelming use of something like a public punishment log.

It makes it nearly impossible for a pardoned user to move on or a constant rule breaker to move forward - Why would they care about bettering themselves or helping the forum or donating to it if all the work they did to turn themselves around is useless because everyone griefs them over their past? As someone who has personal exposure to this(I.E - My own SF thread) over years it just makes the forum an unpleasant place to be.

I don't join the discord anymore, I don't post nearly as much as I used to, I'm vastly less active, I don't fund events anymore, I don't want to buy ads on a forum that despises me - and that's JUST me.

Now imagine if you added public naming and shaming punishment logs to every single user- imagine if instead of "many reasons not to trade with divine" there is a public log listing exactly whats on that thread for every single user.

This forum would be dead in no time - I'm a tough bastard to crack but that sort of negative shaming sentiment just makes the forum and everything its connected to very unattractive - Take it from a guy who has personal experience with this sort of stuff while having upteen thousands++ of vouches and money - I'd pity anyone else beyond words If others had to go through the same short of daily stuff I put up with.

Punishment logs that are tools to shame community members is not something I would hope to ever see on this forum. I am aware they may have trading implications but we all know what they would be really used for - It would create a never ending cycle of hatred that you could never escape your past no matter whether you changed or not.

No from me.

 

[Time Crunch]

I can see where you're coming from with the community "shaming" others for their wrong doing. & I'm sorry you've had the bad experience you've had on the website with others shaming you. - I have shamed you, and I'm sorry for that.

But as Pendulum said,

I don't know if you're unaware, but we currently have this exact system.

We already have this "system" although I doubt anyone checks this prior to making a trade with someone. - Who actually uses this?? That's the problem.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily call it a punishment log. The point of the log is to help keep the community aware of who they're trading with. It's not meant to be as a form of shame for the person with the offenses listed. Although I'm a firm believer of second chances, I also believe that if someone were to commit an offense against another person, it should stick with them.

We obviously don't have a good system of punishment as of now. Look at the cycle of repeat offenders. The only reason they are able to scam such large amounts is because they are "trusted" and their buyers have no recollection of their previous offences as other users may.

I'm sorry, but what comes around goes around. You can't expect to screw someone without getting screwed yourself. If someone makes the decision to scam, they should have to live with their choice. Regardless if they have "changed" or not.

 

[Sun]

You can look up previously pardoned users on the pardon results thread (I will link it when I'm on my computer) where there is also a link to their pardon. Information can be found that way directly related to pardoned users. This has not been back-date yet, that is something I've been meaning to get around to but I've been busy. RaSC archives are another way to look, with a little more effort, for instances where a user may have been accused of something though ultimately not banned.

 

[Time Crunch]

You can look up previously pardoned users on the pardon results thread (I will link it when I'm on my computer) where there is also a link to their pardon. Information can be found that way directly related to pardoned users. This has not been back-date yet, that is something I've been meaning to get around to but I've been busy. RaSC archives are another way to look, with a little more effort, for instances where a user may have been accused of something though ultimately not banned.

Yes, I am aware. Although I'm sure people who are new to this site don't have the knowledge to look up the information that way. The whole reason for this suggestion is to make it easier to access for those who are not aware of how the forum works.

Example:
Consider I'm a new user. It's my first day on the website and I'm about to do a trade with a user.. They've previously pardoned for recovering accounts. (I have no clue who I'm dealing with.. all I see is there vouches & feedback on their thread). I'm not going to know how to look up pardoned users in these sections..

There should be an easier and more direct way for users to look up other users offences.

Spoiler: Further example.

It would be beneficial for the community if we were to add a new banner to profiles. Not to shame anyone for their past, but to make it easier for users to actually see who they're dealing with.

The banner should state something like "previous offenses" and should work somewhat like the "warnings" tab, but should be public.

- If someone was banned for recovering accounts, and successfully pardoned, would you be comfortable in buying an account from them? I don't think so. If someone makes the choice to scam, it's public knowledge.

The only "logical" statement I've seen so far against this suggestion is that the community will use this system to start trash talking others... etc. Although this already occurs. This information is PUBLIC. It should follow the perpetrator regardless.

 

[Time Crunch]

bump

 

[Pikachu]

No from me, 90% of this site is pardoned user's and we need to deter them from using them sites, won gold has pardoned, Arcus had to pardon at one stage and many other users. Besides the high use of staff resource's to link each user to the previous pardon there will be many slips through the cracks and will just lead to more ban evasion.

haven't read what @Divine said but I assume he explained my point in more details.

 

[Time Crunch]

Besides the high use of staff resource's to link each user to the previous pardon there will be many slips through the cracks and will just lead to more ban evasion.

Can you elaborate on this more? Doesn't make sense.

- The main point @Divine stated is that people will use the log and turn it into a punishment log, and will start to shame other users for what they've done in the past.

Although I'm still unsure about what you're talking about. How will having a log of previous offenses lead to slips and cracks?? Doesn't make sense. If anything, the information would be more organized, & it would allow admins to access the information quicker, and easier.

 

[Pikachu]

Can you elaborate on this more? Doesn't make sense.

Yes it does,
from your suggestion, you said blackmark system which I would assume would link back to the pardon/report, which require staff to go back to each individual user pardon/dispute and link it to the user profile with black to the pardon/dispute, as for "slip through cracks", I was referring to user who would not receive black marks etc but have pardoned, by slip through the cracks I meant they wouldn't be caught.

 

[Apples1]

This would be a great idea If it starts at like the start of 2019 and for users who have to pardon after the start date gets a black mark, It could protect future scams as scamming is a major problem, Only been on the site for a month and so many different scam reports.

 

[Time Crunch]

Yes, I obviously wouldn't expect mods to go back through years of RAS reports. It should be a system though. Every time a report is moved from the RAS - to the archives, those reports that result in the ban of a user should be listed on their profile. - Basically like donations. All donations are tracked. All banned users should be tracked as well. Everyone can pardon, but their past should follow them, just like it does IRL.

 

[Josik1]

I dont agree with this black mark system , I wrote about this in thread What are we doing wrong? what I think should be done is that Pardoned users get their vouches removed and have to start building their trust back up from 0 and prove their trust again.

A perfect example is this dumbass called @Lexus these are his vouches Lexus vouches

These are his scams Lexus scammed 493M
PLZ HELP ME LEXUS SCAMMED ME

He ended up repaying the money but I dont really care about that , this guy made those guys go through a shit situation because "he felt desperate".
He tried to scam me too and everytime I see him post I want to bash my keyboard in his head but at the end of the day everyone can make a mistake and should be given another opportunity withouth having to go around with a black mark in his profile if he manages to prove he has changed through building trust again from 0.

If his intentions are not good after pardoning and just want to scam more he will have a tough time with 0 vouches.

 

[Time Crunch]

but at the end of the day everyone can make a mistake.

Scamming is not a "mistake". & removing vouches will never happen.

 

[Lexus]

I dont agree with this black mark system , I wrote about this in thread What are we doing wrong? what I think should be done is that Pardoned users get their vouches removed and have to start building their trust back up from 0 and prove their trust again.

A perfect example is this dumbass called @Lexus these are his vouches Lexus vouches

These are his scams Lexus scammed 493M
PLZ HELP ME LEXUS SCAMMED ME

He ended up repaying the money but I dont really care about that , this guy made those guys go through a shit situation because "he felt desperate".
He tried to scam me too and everytime I see him post I want to bash my keyboard in his head but at the end of the day everyone can make a mistake and should be given another opportunity withouth having to go around with a black mark in his profile if he manages to prove he has changed through building trust again from 0.

If his intentions are not good after pardoning and just want to scam more he will have a tough time with 0 vouches.

You being too headstrong as usual aside, I would be fine with vouches being removed AND the original suggestion in this post being introduced.

 

[Josik1]

Scamming is not a "mistake". & removing vouches will never happen.

Scamming is a mistake , there are multiple reason that can make someone scam other person , some people scammed when they were 13 others can scam because they dont have money to eat the next day , dont get me wrong Im not justifying scamming but scamming is a mistake.

Also why vouches cant be removed ? , I can say the exact same thing and tell you this will never be implemented because is too much job , some pardoned users have various offenses to link + this suggestion will discourage pardoning and as a lot of people already said some of the most trusted users you find today are pardoned.
Not to mention that some days ago people where debating that having a DNT on people that havent post from home IP will make sythe feel like an unsafe enviroment , can you image how having a lot of people going around with black marks will make new users feel ?