Combining Gold Market

[Grave]

(edit) nvm

 

Obviously people will disagree with this, but I feel as if it would generally improve the market experience.

Eliminate Buying Section
It will be much more uniform if there's just one big section everyone looks at. Usually, sellers are the ones who decide the price and payment methods they want, so the buying section has just turned into either scammers buying at outrageously high prices, bulk buyers attempting to supply their shop by controlling the entire buying market, or selling invading the section to pick out buyers. This also has a negative affect of gold inflation, as many sellers feel forced to sell to these competing forces, who continue adjusting their buying prices lower than their selling prices, which is often reduced to compete. By encouraging bulk sellers to create their own sales thread, they can have a higher amount of say on how much they want to sell their gold at. Since the product is essentially the same (just gold), there shouldn't be many "requests" on what people want. I can understand the buying section of, for example, the non-virtual goods section being useful and people can specify what they want, but the same does not apply for the gold market.


I'm interested to hear everyone's opinion. Maybe I'm wrong.
inb4alreadysuggested

I believe they separated the sections just so sellers and buyers could easily find what they wanted.

 

[Grave]

I believe they separated the sections just so sellers and buyers could easily find what they wanted.

Yes, but what they want is gold, and if there's no one selling the gold at the price and payment method they want, what is the point of creating a thread saying you need it?

I guess the same would work the other way around, but there's essentially more buyers than sellers, so it would reduce the amount of threads created if everything's concentrated on the Selling section.

 

You do have a correct point of view, but disregarding the side effects, some legit buying threads are there and not all go wrong.

I do however feel that the section is massively spammed.

I won't go to any side. So I do and not support it.

 

[video]

I'll start by taking a look at each of your arguments and then presenting some of my own. Your arguments are:

1. Uniformity. Sure, things will be "simpler" if there's only one section. But is that even necessary. Is having 2 sections, each of which is the other's opposite too complicated? Uniformity, imo, seems like a poor reason to just drop an entire section.

2. Scammers. Let's imagine a scammer coming to sythe looking to scam gold. If they see that there's no buying section, will they think "Oh no, I can't make a thread saying I'm buying gold, I guess I'll just leave, they got me this time"? No. They'll just go to the selling sections and look for inexperienced sellers and scam them the same way. The only thing I see happening is that the scammers will have to work a little harder to pick out sellers to scam instead of having victims coming to them. I doubt that will be enough to dissuade any scammers.

3. Negative effect on gold inflation. I didn't entirely understand your point here, from what I could make of it, you were referring to price fixing more than inflation. You are concerned with sellers being forced to sell gold to a handful of trusted buyers at an (arguably) undervalued price. There's this concept in economics called the invisible hand and for those unfamiliar with it, here is a definition:

"The theory of the Invisible Hand states that if each consumer is allowed to choose freely what to buy and each producer is allowed to choose freely what to sell and how to produce it, the market will settle on a product distribution and prices that are beneficial to all the individual members of a community, and hence to the community as a whole."

If sellers feel that buyers are offering too low for their gold, they will create threads of their own. No one is ever "forced" to sell gold at a rate they don't find acceptable. Sure, very reputable gold buyers will almost always pay less for gold than other users, but that is because they CAN. They present scam-free and easy ways to convert pixels into cash.

4. "Encouraging" sellers to create their own threads will give them greater power. "Encouraging" is not the right word here, rather "forcing". And how often does forcing someone to do something give them greater power? Sellers always have the options of making their own threads to sell gold, removing the buying section just removes an entire sub-section of traders looking to buy gold, and at this point I will transition into my arguments in support of the buying section.

I only have two short arguments in support of the buying section, but they are very valid. The first being that it gives buyers an outlet to buy gold. Grave, you have a buying thread yourself, I almost had to check the date to ensure that it wasn't April Fool's Day when I saw you suggested removing the buying section, surely you can't say that you'd be better off without your own buying thread.

The second being that it presents an easy way for potential sellers to find buyers. Instead of making new threads and waiting for customers, sellers can pick and choose their own customers from a tidy and convenient little list.

In summary, removing the buying section would limit traders' freedom and would present inconveniences for sellers and buyers alike

 

[Grave]

(edit) fuck this shit I completely fucked up the quotes so try to determine what I said and what you said

1. Uniformity. Sure, things will be "simpler" if there's only one section. But is that even necessary. Is having 2 sections, each of which is the other's opposite too complicated? Uniformity, imo, seems like a poor reason to just drop an entire section.

Well if you believe so, why not having a section for every different payment method too? Maybe add a few more for those who want to use an OMM. As I stated later in my view, it's one product that is being sold, therefore there shouldn't be any "want to buy" threads necessary.

2. Scammers. Let's imagine a scammer coming to sythe looking to scam gold. If they see that there's no buying section, will they think "Oh no, I can't make a thread saying I'm buying gold, I guess I'll just leave, they got me this time"? No. They'll just go to the selling sections and look for inexperienced sellers and scam them the same way. The only thing I see happening is that the scammers will have to work a little harder to pick out sellers to scam instead of having victims coming to them. I doubt that will be enough to dissuade any scammers.

Sellers usually take more responsibility than buyers, however, when there's a person buying at, oh, let's say $0.90/M, a seller is more tempted to let his guards down because he is desperate to make a larger profit. On the other way around, when a seller has his own thread with his own pricing, no scammer is going to offer more than what the seller is selling it at, and when they do, it is more obvious they are scamming. They will be forced to offer the amount the seller is selling it at, and if they don't agree to go first or act suspicious, at the seller's regular price, the seller is less likely to let it happen.

3. Negative effect on gold inflation. I didn't entirely understand your point here, from what I could make of it, you were referring to price fixing more than inflation. You are concerned with sellers being forced to sell gold to a handful of trusted buyers at an (arguably) undervalued price. There's this concept in economics called the invisible hand and for those unfamiliar with it, here is a definition:

"The theory of the Invisible Hand states that if each consumer is allowed to choose freely what to buy and each producer is allowed to choose freely what to sell and how to produce it, the market will settle on a product distribution and prices that are beneficial to all the individual members of a community, and hence to the community as a whole."

If sellers feel that buyers are offering too low for their gold, they will create threads of their own. No one is ever "forced" to sell gold at a rate they don't find acceptable. Sure, very reputable gold buyers will almost always pay less for gold than other users, but that is because they CAN. They present scam-free and easy ways to convert pixels into cash.

Adding to my earlier point, let's set a situation. Person A wants to sell his 10B of gold. He of course, goes to the buying section to see who's looking for his gold. He's discouraged to make his own thread on the selling forums, and he keeps looking at the buying section. He sees two main types of threads: untrusted people offering bogus amounts for gold, trusted people offering very low prices. He's in a hurry to sell, so he just sells it to the trusted person. The trusted person then takes the same gold and resells it in the selling section, making a profit. Of course, I do the same thing, but it doesn't mean I'm not against it.

Now, I'll try to elaborate my point on inflation.

There's a set supply and demand of gold. For the sake of this example, let's say there's a 10B gold supply and a 10B gold demand. Now, 10 people hold this 10B of gold originally. The customers who have 10B of demand are willing to pay anywhere up to $1 (again, for the sake for the example). The 10 people who have 10B of gold don't really care what they sell it as as long as they make, let's say, $5000. When they see people buying it at this price, they go ahead and sell it. Now the person who bought it, turns around, sells it for $7000.

Let's apply this same concept with just a selling section. The 10 people create sales threads. They get a higher amount of customers wanting to buy gold from them, including bulk buyers. Since there's regular customers mixed in, the 10 sellers will most likely create a price range. The more you buy, the more you save, because they want to sell it fast. The bulk buyers can still buy the gold as they would in the buying section, but now the seller has the upper-hand. The bulk buyers have to compete with the regular customers, and they'll end up buying it for $0.60/M. To off-set their profits, they will have to sell it a little higher, but the original sellers still get more customers since they can keep their prices a bit lower. This creates two kind of sellers, which are currently existing, but both now have the same level of power. Customers enjoy a let inflated price directly from these suppliers, and the suppliers get most of the money since they actually worked to generate the gold in-game.

Yes, I can't fully predict the effect of just having a selling section instead of both a buying and selling section, but imagine the same thing in supermarkets. What if there was a building next to a supermarket where buyers gathered and "requested" the stuff they needed? This sounds silly, but the buyers already know they can get it at a certain price at the supermarket, so they try to use this separated building as an advantage to buy at a lower price or buy at higher prices with fake money. The supermarket also has a representative there that says "Hey, I work for the supermarket next door. Here's some guaranteed money, but I'll buy it for super cheap." The supermarket is therefore allowed to off-set their high level in demand by buying more goods at a lower price, and providing a lower price of their goods, forcing other supermarkets to lower their prices too. This is great for customers because they enjoy lower prices, but if the middleman is cut out more, there's a stronger relationship between buyers and sellers.

I'm probably rambling at this point, so let's try to refocus, assuming everything I said above works the way it does.

With two sections:
Seller A buys at 10B at $5000
Seller A sells 10B at $7000
Seller A has more competition of other people doing this, and since he makes a $2000 profit, he says, hmm, maybe I'll lower my profit. However, Seller A will most likely become greedy as more customers continue using him, so he instead lowers his BUYING price. The direct sellers comply with this lowered price, and go on. Soon, the price of gold continues dropping.

With one section:
Seller A buys 10B at $6000.
Direct sellers sell 10B at $6000-$7000
Seller A is forced to sell at $7000
Seller A can't control the buying price, because direct sellers just sell to others, so he can't lower his buying price as much, since he can't make a buying thread
Seller A is forced to live with his $1000 profit instead of $2000

4. "Encouraging" sellers to create their own threads will give them greater power. "Encouraging" is not the right word here, rather "forcing". And how often does forcing someone to do something give them greater power? Sellers always have the options of making their own threads to sell gold, removing the buying section just removes an entire sub-section of traders looking to buy gold, and at this point I will transition into my arguments in support of the buying section.

Markets must sometimes be controlled. Once again, you're acting as if buyers can never buy gold if there's no buying section. On eBay, there's a "want to buy" section that is basically answered by sellers linking them to their listings. The same has happened on Sythe.

I only have two short arguments in support of the buying section, but they are very valid. The first being that it gives buyers an outlet to buy gold. Grave, you have a buying thread yourself, I almost had to check the date to ensure that it wasn't April Fool's Day when I saw you suggested removing the buying section, surely you can't say that you'd be better off without your own buying thread.

I wouldn't be better off, but this isn't about me making a profit. I just think the community would benefit from it. I'm sick of it turning into a supermarket rather than being a marketplace where individuals trade with each other.

The second being that it presents an easy way for potential sellers to find buyers. Instead of making new threads and waiting for customers, sellers can pick and choose their own customers from a tidy and convenient little list.

Usually, Customers browse. Sellers don't browse customers. This is especially true for gold. When a seller approaches a customer, that's basically something similar to telemarketting. "Yo, come buy our shit" If the buying section was actually a place where sellers found buyers and didn't simply shove in their cock, being their thread, into the buying mouth, being their thread, it would be different.

Once again, it's just ONE product. It's not like buyers have to SEARCH for this specific item they want. If I want a brand new iPod Nano 1st generation 2GB, I make a thread saying I'm buying one. If it's a section dedicating to buying and selling iPod Nanos 1st generation 2GB, that's fucking retarded.

Once again, this is just my opinion, but I'm going to defend it.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

There are bulk buyers and having the buying section leads to safer sales of bulk GP. I see what you're getting at but no support.

 

[kill dank]

I feel like combining the buying and selling sections would turn the newly created section into a gold store favoring the big gold merchants. Now, I have nothing against you guys, but give the little folks a chance to make money too.

 

[Grave]

I feel like combining the buying and selling sections would turn the newly created section into a gold store favoring the big gold merchants. Now, I have nothing against you guys, but give the little folks a chance to make money too.

/facepalm

This is aimed against the big gold merchants. Nevermind, someone just close the thread. This will get nowhere, lol.

 

[Pockets]

There are bulk buyers and having the buying section leads to safer sales of bulk GP. I see what you're getting at but no support.

No support for this reason.

 

Closed per request.