Change To Vouch System

[Daddy Dropperz]

Before I get to the explanation to a change to how vouches work, I want to explain straight off the bat this isn't asking to implement a feedback system like it says in the 'do not recommend' in the pinned threads for this section, this is something else as I see it.


Alright guys, we all can admit the system we have on Sythe is NOT perfect as we basically 'meme' about being a forum that brings in scammers. I've made a past suggestion to help with scam sites by possibly just blacklisting the sites/whitelisting only the legit ones, which seems to have brought a light onto the subject as it seems they've now handled the impostor sites immensely. What I'm hoping to convey in this post is to also bring attention to a much needed subject matter: the Sythe vouching system.

The way we leave a vouch is simple: you make a trade with someone, no issues occur, so you both vouch each other to show you both had a successful trade with all parties. The issue I've observed is that vouches aren't appropriately used to show you've had successful trades, they're used to show trust. And that is the issue I have at hand: vouches with no trust or merit behind them (we'll call them pseudo-vouches) shouldn't be called vouches as all.

What I'm proposing is this: vouches should only be given to those who've had some sort of trust in the first place. Too many times people attempt to use these gigantic sized vouches from gold sites as proof they're trusted when there was 0% trust held on them in the first place. If you look at vaders who only join to scam quit 6 months - 1 year later, a lot of their profiles are littered with these pseudo-vouches which they push to show they can be trusted for their eventual scam quit.

Example of an acceptable vouch in my proposal: Person 'A' buys 200m 07 from Person 'B'. Person B gives the gp to Person A, then A sends B the 200 dollars. In a situation like this, A would get a vouch from B since there was trust involved on their end to pay the person afterwards, but B wouldn't get one as, lets be honest, they did nothing worth of a vouch; which the definition of the word, according to Google states, 'confirm that someone is who they say they are or that they are of good character.'. Do you think when Bogla or Divica workers write "bought 1b off them, thanks! " they're indicating you can trust them with that amount? No, of course not. But the current state of the market pushes this point of view on people, especially new people which is what we so desperately need on Sythe.

To those who oppose this, let me ask you this: Have you personally attained vouches which had 0 trust on your end? Don't feel ashamed about it because it is not a bad thing, and I am NOT saying you're an eventual scammer like those above, they just happen to use the same system for the WRONG reasons. What I am trying to emphasize is that this needs to be viewed in the eyes of new Sythe members. - not those that'd be slightly inconvenienced by a different vouch system. If you simply weigh the two, it just seems so obvious to help new people not get scammed so they stay on Sythe opposed to inconveniencing those who are frankly going to stay on this site no matter what people decide on this decision.

In conclusion, all this is meant to better our community and create a more inviting environment to new users as it seems our current systems are evidently failing at it, no matter how much they convenience us. I feel as if changing the Sythe vouch system would eventually even benefit those who may be opposing this suggested change now, as vouches will hold a larger merit in an updated system compared to the current one. This is not a proposition to end scamming on Sythe in anyway, but as one of the first steps to finally bring in more members to the Sythe community.

 

This is how a vouch is defined:

I'm not supporting this, people can read others vouches to see whether they were put in a position of trust or not. We are a free market and a vouch is not "a show of trust" rather than two parties saying they had a pleasant experience with whatever was done for either of them.

 

quite a good idea but how would new people ever get the chance to be trusted?

 

I love this idea because when I started I didn't do the whole pseudo-vouch thing people do.

It makes it hard to start off, but it'll definitely add incentive to donate when you first start. I love the concept, support.

 

[Peaceful1RS]

After reading a personalised tl;dr of this post, by Dropperz, I can definitely get behind and support this suggestion.

Having people buy/sell GP and then claim on their threads "i'm trusted" and "$10,000+ Traded!" is the most infuriating thing, especially when I actually worked for majority of my vouches. It makes me think it's pointless. Why do that when i can just buy/sell GP and be trusted.

So yeah, 100% support on this.

 

[Mr.King]

Requires more time/effort for staff to moderate.

People can always read what the vouches are and determine for themselves if that user is 'trustworthly'.

You stated yourself that

The way we leave a vouch is simple: you make a trade with someone, no issues occur, so you both vouch each other to show you both had a successful trade with all parties. The issue I've observed is that vouches aren't appropriately used to show you've had successful trades, they're used to show trust.

Its the individual who are making the connection between a successful trade and that user's trust. Therefore I doubt this suggestion will go anywhere.
Though I do believe the system needs some sort of change.

 

hey as a guy who doesn't give a shit about being scammed i often go first to people because i can't be bothered with comparing e peens - i feel this update moves towards arrogant members demanding the other party trusts them to get vouches or/and because they deem themselves more trustworthy

 

[Daddy Dropperz]

Requires more time/effort for staff to moderate.

People can always read what the vouches are and determine for themselves if that user is 'trustworthly'.

You stated yourself that


Its the individual who are making the connection between a successful trade and that user's trust. Therefore I doubt this suggestion will go anywhere.

The issue is that no one does that. No one takes their time to read someones individual vouch for every person they trade with. Yes, they may skim it but it gets treated the same as ToS - as long as it looks legit from the outside most people will agree to it. In a perfect world for the system we have, yes people will read through peoples vouches to determine their legitimacy, but that ISN'T the case. People are using vouch count and whatnot to try to prove they're trusted, not that they've had that many successful trades.

 

agreed, this needs to be addressed and dropperz explained it in the most reasonable manner, thanks.
T.

 

people might laugh at my vouches but i don't even ask for them anymore lol

 

[Mr.King]

The issue is that no one does that. No one takes their time to read someones individual vouch for every person they trade with. Yes, they may skim it but it gets treated the same as ToS - as long as it looks legit from the outside most people will agree to it. In a perfect world for the system we have, yes people will read through peoples vouches to determine their legitimacy, but that ISN'T the case. People are using vouch count and whatnot to try to prove they're trusted, not that they've had that many successful trades.

In a 'perfect' world we wouldn't need a system. People are allow to use their past trades (vouches) to convince others they're trusted, it's up to the consumer to actually determine if they're trustworthy.

 

[random444444]

This suggestion definitely has more positives than negatives, but it may be hard to enforce both in the near future (unawareness) and long-term (information not being easily stumbled on).

I still do agree that going first when buying gold from a big name website shouldn't be vouchable.

 

Feedback > Vouches

A lot of trades are documented for record purposes and are often misconstrued for an actual vouch. Substituting vouch for feedback is the simplest and most effective way of handling this issue.

 

[Daddy Dropperz]

Feedback > Vouches

A lot of trades are documented for record purposes and are often misconstrued for an actual vouch. Substituting vouch for feedback is the simplest and most effective way of handling this issue.

Thats the point of this entire thread to show that something needs to be done, so I appreciate the criticism on a different way to handle it

 

Don't think I can support this tbh. For the most part, people leave vouches as a form of feedback and if a trade went well then they're entitled to get one in return imo. I totally understand what you're getting at, but I'd prefer to push for making new traders more competent and emphasise actively assessing vouches and making their own judgements. If a scammer is patient then they can abuse the system just as easily with 'legit' vouches.

 

I'm kind of on the fence with this one due to middleman vouches. I like how middleman vouch for trades. While both parties were not trusted with anything while using the middleman, they get a vouch from the middleman which shows prospective traders that they want a safe trade and are willing to use a middleman. While this may not necessarily convey legitimacy, it certainly can show that the user wants to trade safely.

 

Well i myself started with these kind of vouches from bigger users (haven't started on sythe if that's what you think), but i see where you're heading. If an user is bragging about 10000$ in vouches and he has like 3 trades with gold sites(or 100 rsps trades worth 10$ in total) it's obvious hes a scammer because that really doesn't show anything and only baits people. As much as i would like this kind of shit to stop as it annoys me too but i don't think there is a viable solution for this

 

Seems like a lot of work but I wouldn't mind it. There's no reason why anyone can't build a reputation without abusing the system.

 

no support,
it would make it 10 times harder for new member's to join the community,
It already hard enough to join us,
no point in making it harder.

A vouch is a tranaction log of trade it's not really meant to be feedback.

 

I see what you're saying and I somewhat agree. Selling to websites and going first does not mean you are by any means trusted. However by accumulating enough of those vouches, traders can see that you're a long term seller and care about your reputation enough to request a vouch. When you're starting off on Sythe these vouches are important, and without them nobody will ever be able to convince someone to go first to them.

Ultimately it's up to the buyer to determine if the seller is legitimate enough by taking ALL of their vouches and feedback into account before making a decision to go first in a trade.