Botted Powerleveling Service Refund

[UnregisteredBartonsVodka]

Profile: http://www.sythe.org/members/380541-bartonsvodka.html

Skilling Thread: http://www.sythe.org/oldschool-rune...e-240-vouches-custom-accounts-99-99-99-a.html

Story: The user best mid aus (I believe is his username on here, Skype: legendarydanny) ordered a service from me. 1-80 in attack, strength, defence, and range. We decided on a price of 35M 07 for the service and that he would supply all needed materials for me to complete the service. This is a standard procedure for me as I set up a service.

It had been about 1 day, little more, and I had gotten around 40 attack, 39 strength, and around 30 defense the last time I glanced at the Runescape client. After I stopped the bot for the day and went to bed, I woke up the next day with a message stating he was banned. In my head I thought to myself this had to have been a 2 day ban since. NOPE. It was a perm ban and there was nothing I could do for his account at this point. Just a little quick info from someone who's been botting 8+ years, you normally don't get a perm ban botting low level combat. It's normally 2 days and you're fine after that.

That's when I offered the 50% refund (which is clearly stated in my tos) or I redo the account at no extra cost except he just needs to supply it. He didn't like that so he posted a thread about it: http://www.sythe.org/sythe-org-support/1909850-runescape-powerlevel-service.html

He then got support from 1 Sythe user and a mod about it and it was closed as it was solved. Me and Ghast have been speaking on Skype about it to the point that he belives a 35M 07 + 10M 07 for supplies (which has yet to be proven since I had to use my money to supply the account and get it going).

I've had this botting thread going for about 6 months or so (since summer) and have had great business. I've made over 90+ accounts for personal use as well as for customers. I use a private script that as last I checked, I'm the only one using it. Therefore, I haven't experienced a ban using my combat powerleveling spots with a customer or myself.

I do run another service (pest control) and I've received one 2 day ban recently. I've never had a ban doing the powerleveling that I was doing for said user above.

Dispute:
I'm disputing today because I told Ghast I'm not going to be paying 45M 07 as a full refund and that I was going to get other opinions. I believe that amount directed at me to refund is higher than what it should be.

I clearly state in my thread its botted. I clearly state I offer 50% refunds on a ban (if it happens). I clearly state to not login to the accounts while I'm on there (in tos), which he logged in to put 10M 07 on. I can get more into how drastic IP changes while botting can cause bans (as per this report).

I totally agree my customer deserves a redo account or some sort of percentage (above 50) refund of just the 35M 07. He has yet to show proof of the 10M 07 he says he put on the account (I could've said I put 10M 07 on there when it needed supplied and he was unable to provide but that's not how things should work)

At this point I will just reply to any questions/concerns that other mods might have.

 

There is no proof that you got the account those levels. He claims that the account was at a significantly lower level when he logged in. There is also no proof of this.

Just a little quick info from someone who's been botting 8+ years, you normally don't get a perm ban botting low level combat. It's normally 2 days and you're fine after that.

Botting is currently high risk. Simply saying that him logging in was the cause of the account getting banned isn't proof, just speculation.

http://www.sythe.org/runescape-2007-cheating/1907270-so-apparently-jagex-can-detect-clients-now.html

That's when I offered the 50% refund (which is clearly stated in my tos) or I redo the account at no extra cost except he just needs to supply it. He didn't like that so he posted a thread about it

You're offering a 50% refund for work that wasn't even 20% complete (by the levels you said you've done before getting banned). It does not matter if this is written in your T.O.S as this is downright scamming.

Me and Ghast have been speaking on Skype about it to the point that he belives a 35M 07 + 10M 07 for supplies (which has yet to be proven since I had to use my money to supply the account and get it going).

I have proof of him putting an additional 10m on the account. He claims that when he logged back on the account, the 10m was gone, and that there were only 1m worth of melee items (no proof of this).

I do run another service (pest control) and I've received one 2 day ban recently. I've never had a ban doing the powerleveling that I was doing for said user above.

He asked you if getting to level 80 won't get him banned, and you said you haven't had one yet (a ban). If you had told him you did get banned, but not for this particular service, there is a chance he wouldn't have gone through with the service.

I'm disputing today because I told Ghast I'm not going to be paying 45M 07 as a full refund and that I was going to get other opinions. I believe that amount directed at me to refund is higher than what it should be.

I clearly state in my thread its botted. I clearly state I offer 50% refunds on a ban (if it happens). I clearly state to not login to the accounts while I'm on there (in tos), which he logged in to put 10M 07 on. I can get more into how drastic IP changes while botting can cause bans (as per this report).

I totally agree my customer deserves a redo account or some sort of percentage (above 50) refund of just the 35M 07. He has yet to show proof of the 10M 07 he says he put on the account (I could've said I put 10M 07 on there when it needed supplied and he was unable to provide but that's not how things should work)

At this point I will just reply to any questions/concerns that other mods might have.

He wants a refund, he doesn't want to continue on with your service. He shouldn't be forced to do so, and there is no proof on your side, all of it is simply hearsay and speculation. Because he got permanently banned by using your service, he should earn a full refund.

 

[UnregisteredBartonsVodka]

http://www.sythe.org/dispute-ban-twc/1910386-botted-powerleveling-service-refund.html


I would like other mods attention to this as well, just to get another opinion as I have heard Ghast's reasons.

There is no proof that you got the account those levels. He claims that the account was at a significantly lower level when he logged in. There is also no proof of this.

I guess I'm quite confused as to how this will work because I started on Saturday (12/5) and his RS account was banned Monday (12/7). In Skype chats, he claims to have put the 10M on the account Saturday as well. Of course when he logs in same day I started, the levels aren't going to be that high. I botted an additional day once he was off to the levels I've already told you (30~ attack, 39 strength, 30~ defense). Yes that is nothing at all but it is more than you are claiming.

In addition, do other companies that have a ban during a service have to refund everything on the account? I guess I've never seen how this is supposed to work but would love an answer on this.

Botting is currently high risk. Simply saying that him logging in was the cause of the account getting banned isn't proof, just speculation.

http://www.sythe.org/runescape-2007-cheating/1907270-so-apparently-jagex-can-detect-clients-now.html

http://www.sythe.org/15324400-post9.html I believe he might be a developer for TopBot claiming that's false, but that doesn't really belong in this context.

Botting has always been a high risk and it's even higher now. I'm not denying the ban but when I am working on several other accounts that aren't banned, makes me wonder if that was the reason.

You're offering a 50% refund for work that wasn't even 20% complete (by the levels you said you've done before getting banned). It does not matter if this is written in your T.O.S as this is downright scamming.

And I've stated to him and you (on Skype) that I'm willing to work with a higher % than 50% based off the 35M 07, not the additional 10M for his supplies, which he still owes me 1.1M 07 for if we want to get into it this far. Or a redo account (which he has declined).

I have proof of him putting an additional 10m on the account. He claims that when he logged back on the account, the 10m was gone, and that there were only 1m worth of melee items (no proof of this).

I would like to see the proof please so I can understand, as I don't see how this is any sort of security breach on his part or anything. Now that is where is he is lying and should throw up flags immediately. At this point your going off my word and his word.

He asked you if getting to level 80 won't get him banned, and you said you haven't had one yet (a ban). If you had told him you did get banned, but not for this particular service, there is a chance he wouldn't have gone through with the service.

Correct. I don't use Pest Control on my combat leveling thread and that is what he paid for. Why would I tell him I've received bans on other services, which as you said, would possibly turn him away? If he would've asked if I've ever gotten any ban whatsoever, I wouldn't hesitate to answer that.

Do all other business need to give spoilers to their services? To me that just seems redundant because you'd lose a pretty high percent of customer base.

In my thread it states I bot and as a customer, you should've done your research on it and figured you're fine with going ahead with anything that botting may bring to the table. That's when Mid Aus came to me to ask if he'd get banned while getting to level 80s, not getting full void/fire cape/etc., (http://puu.sh/lPRv0/4fff9fddf0.png) and I simply answered the question: "Haven't had one yet". Which is the complete truth.

He wants a refund, he doesn't want to continue on with your service.

I'm going to give him a refund, no matter if I'm unbanned here or not but I will not be giving 45M 07 for a full refund plus the 10M 07 that he put on there.

He shouldn't be forced to do so, and there is no proof on your side, all of it is simply hearsay and speculation. Because he got permanently banned by using your service, he should earn a full refund.

Totally agreed, wouldn't force him to do it if he didn't want to. Why have TOS if you trump them? Make universal Sythe T.O.S. if this is the case, if not, I believe I have the right to stick to the 50% (which I'm not, I'm willing to negotiate this) stated clearly in my botted service t.o.s. section.

 

I'll get someone else to give a second opinion on this.

I guess I'm quite confused as to how this will work because I started on Saturday (12/5) and his RS account was banned Monday (12/7). In Skype chats, he claims to have put the 10M on the account Saturday as well. Of course when he logs in same day I started, the levels aren't going to be that high. I botted an additional day once he was off to the levels I've already told you (30~ attack, 39 strength, 30~ defense). Yes that is nothing at all but it is more than you are claiming.

The point is there is no proof going both ways, and this itself does not matter because the account is permanently banned. Trying to assess refunds based on stats you trained on a permanently banned account is pointless.

In addition, do other companies that have a ban during a service have to refund everything on the account? I guess I've never seen how this is supposed to work but would love an answer on this.

To my knowledge if the account is permanently banned, they would. This is common sense though.

http://www.sythe.org/15324400-post9.html I believe he might be a developer for TopBot claiming that's false, but that doesn't really belong in this context.

Botting has always been a high risk and it's even higher now. I'm not denying the ban but when I am working on several other accounts that aren't banned, makes me wonder if that was the reason.

Speculation

I would like to see the proof please so I can understand, as I don't see how this is any sort of security breach on his part or anything. Now that is where is he is lying and should throw up flags immediately. At this point your going off my word and his word.

He gave me proof of supplying the account with the 10m as agreed with both you and him before starting the service. Complaining that he put broke your T.O.S for putting supply money on the account is comical, as that's what you both agreed to.

Contact me on skype for the proof.

And I've stated to him and you (on Skype) that I'm willing to work with a higher % than 50% based off the 35M 07, not the additional 10M for his supplies, which he still owes me 1.1M 07 for if we want to get into it this far. Or a redo account (which he has declined).

The account is permanently banned. What exactly is he paying you for if that is the outcome? I was simply breaking down how ridiculous your T.O.S is.

Correct. I don't use Pest Control on my combat leveling thread and that is what he paid for. Why would I tell him I've received bans on other services, which as you said, would possibly turn him away? If he would've asked if I've ever gotten any ban whatsoever, I wouldn't hesitate to answer that.

Do all other business need to give spoilers to their services? To me that just seems redundant because you'd lose a pretty high percent of customer base.

In my thread it states I bot and as a customer, you should've done your research on it and figured you're fine with going ahead with anything that botting may bring to the table. That's when Mid Aus came to me to ask if he'd get banned while getting to level 80s, not getting full void/fire cape/etc., (http://puu.sh/lPRv0/4fff9fddf0.png) and I simply answered the question: "Haven't had one yet". Which is the complete truth.

That's exactly the point. If he'd had known that you were banned for botting services, this whole thing could've been avoided. You have a track record of not disclosing specific and important information that puts your customers at risk. This led to your TWC, not the result of having to refund in full.

I'm going to give him a refund, no matter if I'm unbanned here or not but I will not be giving 45M 07 for a full refund plus the 10M 07 that he put on there.

The agreement was 35m for the service, and 10m in supplies to complete the service. The service was put at a quick halt due to you getting the account permanently banned. This results in a full refund.

Totally agreed, wouldn't force him to do it if he didn't want to. Why have TOS if you trump them? Make universal Sythe T.O.S. if this is the case, if not, I believe I have the right to stick to the 50% (which I'm not, I'm willing to negotiate this) stated clearly in my botted service t.o.s. section.

We won't tolerate terms of service's that results in users getting scammed. You're asking us to tolerate those ridiculous terms, and it won't happen.

 

[UnregisteredBartonsVodka]

http://www.sythe.org/dispute-ban-twc/1910386-botted-powerleveling-service-refund.html

I'll get someone else to give a second opinion on this.

Thanks!

The point is there is no proof going both ways, and this itself does not matter because the account is permanently banned. Trying to assess refunds based on stats you trained on a permanently banned account is pointless.

I agree with that statement. I'm speaking the refund per my tos, which I'll mention below.

To my knowledge if the account is permanently banned, they would. This is common sense though.

He gave me proof of supplying the account with the 10m as agreed with both you and him before starting the service. Complaining that he put broke your T.O.S for putting supply money on the account is comical, as that's what you both agreed to.

I'm not complaining that he broke my tos for that, I'm just stating that him getting on causes bans but that isn't really necessary for this report.

The account is permanently banned. What exactly is he paying you for if that is the outcome? I was simply breaking down how ridiculous your T.O.S is.

Why am I having to pay him an extra 10M 07 out of my pocket...? I start a service for him and yet I'm having to pay him extra? That doesn't quite add up even if he did get banned.

No matter how ridiculous my tos may be to you, they're still my tos that I follow and my customers are expected to follow. They decide to follow them and order from me. They know the possibility.

If you sign up for something online (say a subscription to Wall Street Journal) and you absolutely hate it and it's nothing that you wanted, can you ring up WSJ and ask for a refund because its not what you wanted? WSJ would then respond stating that they can't offer a refund because the customer agreed to their terms and went ahead with the possibility of not liking it.

That's exactly the point. If he'd had known that you were banned for botting services, this whole thing could've been avoided. You have a track record of not disclosing specific and important information that puts your customers at risk. This led to your TWC, not the result of having to refund in full.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this man but Pest Control (minigame) and combat leveling are 2 entirely different things with entirely different service threads. If he'd had specified if I'd been banned ever for anything, I would've told him no hesitation. But he asked if he'd be banned for me getting him 80s (while skilling, not doing a minigame) and I responded with I've yet to get a ban while going to 80s.

A track record... The customer I had that got a ban on Pest Control was refunded immediately and no issues after that. If

The agreement was 35m for the service, and 10m in supplies to complete the service. The service was put at a quick halt due to you getting the account permanently banned. This results in a full refund.

Customer agrees to my tos, therefore, 50% should be what it is. However, I've agreed to not go about it like this and offer a different refund. I will not be giving the full 100% and then an extra fee (10M 07) because his stuff got banned.

We won't tolerate terms of service's that results in users getting scammed. You're asking us to tolerate those ridiculous terms, and it won't happen.

No user is getting scammed? He's probably the 20th person I've done this service for and none of them refused my tos and all understood. Why is this customer that much different?

If you're going to state that business can't make their own tos, then will you have to go through previous disputes/ban reports and assess if they owe more or less based on their tos?

It's my tos and the customer can agree to not go with me. If they're so ridiculous why have I completed 10+ orders? You'd think that if it's so easily ridiculous and obsurd, no one would order from me.

I believe me and Ghast have gone back and forth enough and will await other responses.

 

Before I reply again, let me break down the magnitude of what you completed.

Let's go with what you said you completed.

40, 40, 40 is 111k experience.

The goal here is to get level 80 in 4 different stats. That is 7.8m experience needed.

That's 1.4% in completion.

Why am I having to pay him an extra 10M 07 out of my pocket...? I start a service for him and yet I'm having to pay him extra? That doesn't quite add up even if he did get banned.

No matter how ridiculous my tos may be to you, they're still my tos that I follow and my customers are expected to follow. They decide to follow them and order from me. They know the possibility.

If you sign up for something online (say a subscription to Wall Street Journal) and you absolutely hate it and it's nothing that you wanted, can you ring up WSJ and ask for a refund because its not what you wanted? WSJ would then respond stating that they can't offer a refund because the customer agreed to their terms and went ahead with the possibility of not liking it.

You're not paying "extra" as the 10m in supply funds was part of the order.

A track record... The customer I had that got a ban on Pest Control was refunded immediately and no issues after that.

Let's say for example I scam someone and pay them back immediately, is my history of scamming nonexistent? No. The issue about that specific incident was you not stating that you would be botting the service, both on your thread, and discussion with the person who ordered.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this man but Pest Control (minigame) and combat leveling are 2 entirely different things with entirely different service threads. If he'd had specified if I'd been banned ever for anything, I would've told him no hesitation. But he asked if he'd be banned for me getting him 80s (while skilling, not doing a minigame) and I responded with I've yet to get a ban while going to 80s.

I asked the victim if you had told him that you were banned for botting a different service, he wouldn't have gone through with ordering from you as he was pondering choosing a handmade service, and he wanted to be certain that he would be ban free. You're right in that saying you haven't been banned for that particular service, but given the ambiguity of his question, he was leaning more towards the answer I gave above. I can supply proof of him saying this. I've already discussed this portion with you on skype.

Customer agrees to my tos, therefore, 50% should be what it is. However, I've agreed to not go about it like this and offer a different refund. I will not be giving the full 100% and then an extra fee (10M 07) because his stuff got banned.

There have been incidents where customers agree to terms that were later overruled due to it being nonsensical and intolerant.

What extra fee? You both agreed that the order would cost 35m, and that 10m would be given in supply funds. The 10m is part of the order, as it's being used to complete that order.

No user is getting scammed? He's probably the 20th person I've done this service for and none of them refused my tos and all understood. Why is this customer that much different?

If you're going to state that business can't make their own tos, then will you have to go through previous disputes/ban reports and assess if they owe more or less based on their tos?

It's my tos and the customer can agree to not go with me. If they're so ridiculous why have I completed 10+ orders? You'd think that if it's so easily ridiculous and obsurd, no one would order from me.

I believe me and Ghast have gone back and forth enough and will await other responses.

Because they haven't brought it forward to this degree in which they're seeking a refund.

If I agree to a terms of service that said:

"There will be no refunds issued. If your account gets banned, perm or not, that is on you."

Then I reported that person because I'm seeking a refund for my account that got permanently banned, and 5% of that order was not complete, his T.O.S would be overruled for being nonsensical and intolerant.

 

[UnregisteredBarton]

http://www.sythe.org/dispute-ban-twc/1910386-botted-powerleveling-service-refund.html

I am in full agreement to pay the 35M 07 service charge.

But to pay his 10M supplies charge as well? That's up to him to put what he wants on the account, not mine. I just can't see how I come out of a deal LOSING money when this type of transaction warrants nothing like that happening, whatsoever.

Anyone else or is Ghast's opinion the same for others?

 

[UnregisteredBartonsVodka]

http://www.sythe.org/dispute-ban-twc/1910386-botted-powerleveling-service-refund.html



What did they do with these 2 reports below? Looks like 1 said a bond and the other didn't have to repay more than service.

http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer...anned-botting-after-paying-quest-service.html

http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1908144-permenantly-banned-botting-quest-service.html
Had to pay a bond

 

1st report is about money he claims to have been on a different game version of the account. 400m, to which there is no proof of, and since this was on DDM, he wouldn't be liable to pay.

2nd report is really straightforward. It was bond to start the service, and 22m after completion. He got the account banned so he only needs to refund a bond.

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

 

[video]

Oftentimes a user's ToS is in conflict with sythe rules and this looks like one of those times. You say 50% refund if their account is banned regardless of how much work you have put in, but this actually makes it beneficial for you if the account is banned. If you do 5% of the order for 50% of the price and your buyer's only result is a banned account, that does not seem very fair.

To prevent this kind of dispute from happening in the future, I'm going to say that all skillers will need to either A. provide supplies themselves or B. charge the order as one price without a separate "supply fee" So in this case we would say this was a 45m order since the customer did supply the 10m at least at one point for this training so customer is owed 100% refund, 45m. Please let us know when this is repaid Barton

 

[UnregisteredBartonsVodka]

http://www.sythe.org/dispute-ban-twc/1910386-botted-powerleveling-service-refund.html

I have paid back best mid aus 45M 07.

http://puu.sh/lXQ3p/9a39c4cdc7.jpg

 

Refund is confirmed.

Sent a request to get you unbanned.