Bitcoins / Investing

[The Ract]

Hey, so I've been doing a lot of reading on Bitcoins and even though they've dropped a substantial amount due to what happened in China, I'm still considering investing. If I were to do so, I'd probably only have 500-1000$ to invest (1-1.5 BTC) however I believe they will only go up in price.

What are your guys' opinion on this? Do you think it's worth investing? Also, how long do you think before a substantial rise in price? I've read articles people predicting they'll reach 10,000$ each, however I think that's far-fetched.

All opinions welcome

 

[Darbss]

two people who mass invested when they were relatively new still own all the BitCoins that they purchased and they are expecting them to reach 30k each. i think its ridiculous but you never know, its a bit of a gamble i guess.

 

[funbox]

no they won't.

There was a huge fucking pump that raised the coins to 1k$, now they stabilized again at what, 600$?

Bitcoins is a gamble on a non tangable object. If i ever had to invest in something it would be gold/silver/property, because those are always increasing in value and are tangable objects.

 

[l0llyp0pst3r]

What I feel is BTC like fun has said is not tangible and does carry a lot of risk. Not to mention the fact that it is backed by really nothing and can disappear anytime.

 

[funbox]

Also, i forgot to mention. It is estimated that bitcoins will all be mined by 2140.
In order for bitcoins to reach 30,000$ there has to be a huge fucking demand and barely any supply.

Also don't forget, even if they hit 10,000$ somehow EVERYBODY will dump them/try to sell them, thus causing the price to drop again till it stabilizes( like it happened when it reached 1k$ after the huge pump by gtgox).

 

[Apith]

Sorry funbox, but you havent been keeping up to date with the progress bitcoin has been making. You're wrong.

Silkroad. Hundreds of millions of dollars where moving around so fast. Silkroad got shut down, bitcoins dropped and got back up pretty quick.

Senate hearing. Government affair committee and the homeland security were exploring the risks and benefits of bitcoins. Congress saw and understood the potential benefits. This caused bitcoins to rise to 4 digits.

Bitcoin ATMs are being made, and a few have been released. More and more stores are accepting bitcoins. A buyer bought a Tesla Mode S with bitcoins.

The Winklevoss twins knew that bitcoins was an emerging market, they obviously did their research when they invested millions of dollars into bitcoins, which caused bitcoins to soar up to over 200 bucks a pop. Not long later it hits the 4 digits. They said they haven't sold a single bitcoin yet and they see bitcoins hitting 5 digits.

Gold is just as volatile. If a bunch of gold was discovered somewhere near a city, somewhere that isn't a remote area. Gold is just a bubble waiting to pop. Gold has no use. Now if we were to talk about silver, that would be a whole different story. There's a reason why warren buffett purchased 130m ounces of silver, which the government then blocked or something. I wont go into that, research that yourselves. Silver is used almost everywhere these days.

Prices of money drops. Money is a simple paper made by the bank that basically says "iou". Currencies in the last decades have soared, others dropped and others have soared and dropped. Bitcoins have a cap, banks can keep printing money. Wait till Amazon accepts bitcoins, everyone will panic then.

 

[TJOC]

Sorry funbox, but you havent been keeping up to date with the progress bitcoin has been making. You're wrong.

Silkroad. Hundreds of millions of dollars where moving around so fast. Silkroad got shut down, bitcoins dropped and got back up pretty quick.

Senate hearing. Government affair committee and the homeland security were exploring the risks and benefits of bitcoins. Congress saw and understood the potential benefits. This caused bitcoins to rise to 4 digits.

Bitcoin ATMs are being made, and a few have been released. More and more stores are accepting bitcoins. A buyer bought a Tesla Mode S with bitcoins.

The Winklevoss twins knew that bitcoins was an emerging market, they obviously did their research when they invested millions of dollars into bitcoins, which caused bitcoins to soar up to over 200 bucks a pop. Not long later it hits the 4 digits. They said they haven't sold a single bitcoin yet and they see bitcoins hitting 5 digits.

Gold is just as volatile. If a bunch of gold was discovered somewhere near a city, somewhere that isn't a remote area. Gold is just a bubble waiting to pop. Gold has no use. Now if we were to talk about silver, that would be a whole different story. There's a reason why warren buffett purchased 130m ounces of silver, which the government then blocked or something. I wont go into that, research that yourselves. Silver is used almost everywhere these days.

Completely agree with this.

My biggest point being the shutdown of Silkroad. I had absolutely no knowledge of BTC until hearing about SR. BTC has value and always will, because of it's unique properties and the hard to get factor. The fact that it is not a tangible object has no meaning. Look at Sythe- thousands upon thousands are traded here daily on "non-tangible" items.

 

[funbox]

cut quote to fit mine

Silkroad was a drug-selling site that was busted in the beginning of october. If you actually know anything about the hidden wiki you'd know silkroad is merely one of thousands of websites that sells drugs online. Bitcoins exceeded 1k $'s due to the pump and dumps which where made by BTC-e, not mtgox<-(Made a mistake i admit it, but i knew it was one of the big exchange sites.) After the pump action was done, came the dump which plummeted the price of bitcoins and is stabilizing at 650$ish.

Also, Senates have discussed it and gave it publicity but it isn't the main reason why they raised in price. Yes the publicity was a factor, but the main cause was BTC-E's pump and dumps. Feel free to browse other forums to find the same reasoning.

Sentence on the ATM's, what can i say, congratulations? This doesn't create an argument. It's nothing except a simple fact that they're planning to create one.

The twins, they invested to it and they think it's a factor due to the price increase. It isn't relevant to the argument if one should invest in bitcoins just because others did. Go buy shares in the las vegas sands casino like sheldon adelson did, and loose 1 Billion Dollars.

Also i'll give credit where it's due, when i stated gold it was merely to enfasis that if i'd have to invest in anything, i'd prefer to invest in Gold/Silver/Platinum because they're rare metals and tangible. I admit that you have a point that it's better to invest in silver due to it being a great conductor, thus being used alot.

I know what printed money is, i know what an IOU is, i know that it's primary idea was that anyone at any given time could exchange paper money for gold/silver equivalence.

You have some good points, especially where it comes to silver over gold but i don't agree with your other statements.

 

[funbox]

Completely agree with this.

My biggest point being the shutdown of Silkroad. I had absolutely no knowledge of BTC until hearing about SR. BTC has value and always will, because of it's unique properties and the hard to get factor. The fact that it is not a tangible object has no meaning. Look at Sythe- thousands upon thousands are traded here daily on "non-tangible" items.

You don't know jack shit except for spamming. The fact that you stated you never knew about it before silkroad proves that you're indeed stupid. We're not referring to sythe, imbecile we're referring to investments. When one person invests in stocks he gets a certificate which is TANGIBLE to prove that you infact own them. When you pay something you usually pay with either TANGIBLE money or taken from your bank account ( Which is filled with deposited TANGIBLE money). When one buys Property, gold,silver or platinum they are paying real TANGIBLE money for another TANGIBLE object.

edit-> i'll be back tomorrow to read replys.

 

[Logic]

You don't know jack shit except for spamming. The fact that you stated you never knew about it before silkroad proves that you're indeed stupid. We're not referring to sythe, imbecile we're referring to investments. When one person invests in stocks he gets a certificate which is TANGIBLE to prove that you infact own them. When you pay something you usually pay with either TANGIBLE money or taken from your bank account ( Which is filled with deposited TANGIBLE money). When one buys Property, gold,silver or platinum they are paying real TANGIBLE money for another TANGIBLE object.

edit-> i'll be back tomorrow to read replys.

Calling other people imbecils and idiots doesn't mean you're right! It should be rather clear after reading your post "no it won't" that you just think you know a lot more than others while in fact you're metaforically put "walking in a dark room and acting like you know exactly where you're going". Saying Bitcoin won't go over 5 digits is being ignorant, cause it's just a matter of time when it goes 5 digits (aka inflation/printing endless amounts of money). More and more people are realizing that the money we use these days is worth nothing more than air(the "IOU" means nothing as money isn't backed with gold or anything of that sort) and calling it tangible is somewhat arguable for me as I see money == info (a code of 1's and 0's). I'm fairly surten Bitcoin will go over the "magical" 5 digits but I'm not sure when will it happen or what will that 5 digits buy oneself from a shop (maybe not even a loaf of bread).

I think the only reason why big business hasn't killed Bitcoin is the fear that our current system will burst as we can't go on with just printing money and hoping everything will go well. Or maybe they just don't care, who knows...

Currencies like Bitcoin are the future if WE want them to be. Also if I wasn't this poor I'd invest in Bitcoin/Litecoin myself

 

[TJOC]

I do "real" investments as well, what I've wrote is just an opinion of mine in the state of CryptoCurrency. Believe it or not, I like to make money rather than throw it away.

Edit: Realized most people aren't too aware of what these are. They are presidential golden dollars, if you get bored- look into them and do some research and you'll see why I've started to buy them everytime I get a little spare money.

 

[The Ract]

Soo, pretty much what I'm getting from this is people are conflicted. Bitcoins are a risk, but could be a big payoff, but Silver / Gold / other tangible items are a much safer investment, but with less payoff.

I think i'm going to invest in at least 1 BTC and see how it goes, hold onto it for a year or so and then decide what to do later on.

 

[TJOC]

Soo, pretty much what I'm getting from this is people are conflicted. Bitcoins are a risk, but could be a big payoff, but Silver / Gold / other tangible items are a much safer investment, but with less payoff.

I think i'm going to invest in at least 1 BTC and see how it goes, hold onto it for a year or so and then decide what to do later on.

Yeah, pretty much.

Everyone will have their own views on everything. No matter what remember this; The possibility of a higher payout will be a higher risk investment, a low risk investment will typically have a smaller possibility of a large payoff.

Bet of luck man.

 

[Pockets]

OP: Don't risk any money you aren't completely comfortable losing in BTC. At this price I still think it is probably a good risk to take, but certainly not for a significant portion of your wealth/savings because I think in most scenarios it will go to 0.

TJOC why are you hording those coins? I don't get it.

 

[TJOC]

I have quite a lot of coins that I have been collecting over the years. It started as a hobby with older money. I went to an auction with my grandfather that passed away a year ago and bought some silver dollars one day, slightly more than the silver value in the coins which was about $15 at the time. It turned out I had a 1892 S Morgan Silver dollar in the bunch, which is highly sought after and I was able to sell it for $900 the next week.

I still carry a 1879 Silver dollar from that collection in my wallet because I think it's good luck.

[My collection stories go on forever, let me get back to what I was going to say.]

It's a really long term investment I'm working on. I have quite a lot of other "hoards" of coins from over the years. No matter what happens, the value of the coins will never drop. These coins are $1 each, no matter what. The gold value may surpass the actual value someday which will cause the remainder of coins that are deposited into banks returned to the mint and melted for metal content. This has happened quite a lot over time, for an example- to those silver dollars I had. The monetary value is $1 at a store, or $15 at the time in silver content.

__

It's basically a no-way-lose money investment, as it will always be worth what I paid for. I also thoroughly enjoy collecting money. It's a hobby.

 

[Pockets]

I have quite a lot of coins that I have been collecting over the years. It started as a hobby with older money. I went to an auction with my grandfather that passed away a year ago and bought some silver dollars one day, slightly more than the silver value in the coins which was about $15 at the time. It turned out I had a 1892 S Morgan Silver dollar in the bunch, which is highly sought after and I was able to sell it for $900 the next week.

I still carry a 1879 Silver dollar from that collection in my wallet because I think it's good luck.

[My collection stories go on forever, let me get back to what I was going to say.]

It's a really long term investment I'm working on. I have quite a lot of other "hoards" of coins from over the years. No matter what happens, the value of the coins will never drop. These coins are $1 each, no matter what. The gold value may surpass the actual value someday which will cause the remainder of coins that are deposited into banks returned to the mint and melted for metal content. This has happened quite a lot over time, for an example- to those silver dollars I had. The monetary value is $1 at a store, or $15 at the time in silver content.

__

It's basically a no-way-lose money investment, as it will always be worth what I paid for. I also thoroughly enjoy collecting money. It's a hobby.

re: holding silver
Holding silver (or other precious metals) for a small part of your savings makes sense. However, it is a commodity, and not some return-generating asset. Other investments will return much better on average. Diversifying with precious metals can make sense, but they certainly shouldn't be the majority of your savings. Also the $1 face value of a coin you paid $15 for is hardly insurance against the drop. It's also basically impossible for silver to go that low.

re: presidential gold coins
There is no way that the develop any numismatic value anytime soon. You'll be losing a lot of money to inflation and the opportunity cost of other investments.

 

[TJOC]

I agree with you, don't get me wrong.

It's diffidently more of a hobby than anything else, I'll be the first to admit that. Although with that being said, if I wasn't spending the $100 a month in coins like I do, it wouldn't be invested. I know that better than anyone. It would be used for a trip somewhere, going out to eat, etc.

I'm not disciplined enough to invest it into CD's, bonds, what have you.

Personally, I'd much rather put it into something I enjoy having and maybe whenever I retire it can be something to pass down to my grandchildren or make a nice downpayment on something nice. I already have a retirement plan that I pay money to, this is just extra cash that I don't "see", because I don't see coins as something I'd go out and spend.

 

[Pockets]

I agree with you, don't get me wrong.

It's diffidently more of a hobby than anything else, I'll be the first to admit that. Although with that being said, if I wasn't spending the $100 a month in coins like I do, it wouldn't be invested. I know that better than anyone. It would be used for a trip somewhere, going out to eat, etc.

I'm not disciplined enough to invest it into CD's, bonds, what have you.

Personally, I'd much rather put it into something I enjoy having and maybe whenever I retire it can be something to pass down to my grandchildren or make a nice downpayment on something nice. I already have a retirement plan that I pay money to, this is just extra cash that I don't "see", because I don't see coins as something I'd go out and spend.

Awesome, glad to hear that. Nice work on the retirement plan and best of luck with everything.

 

[Apith]

Silkroad was a drug-selling site that was busted in the beginning of october. If you actually know anything about the hidden wiki you'd know silkroad is merely one of thousands of websites that sells drugs online. Bitcoins exceeded 1k $'s due to the pump and dumps which where made by BTC-e, not mtgox<-(Made a mistake i admit it, but i knew it was one of the big exchange sites.) After the pump action was done, came the dump which plummeted the price of bitcoins and is stabilizing at 650$ish.

It's not stabilizing at 650. Get with the news. China's largest bitcoin exchanged has "temporarily" stopped accepting deposits in Chinese yuan. Dont blame everything on pump and dump, which there isn't much proof of apart from people's words. Bitcoins dropped from 200+ to around 50 when the silk road owner was caught, that was panic selling. As soon as China did what they did, bitcoins went from 1200 to 500 overnight, not because of pump and dump. Google it.

Also, Senates have discussed it and gave it publicity but it isn't the main reason why they raised in price. Yes the publicity was a factor, but the main cause was BTC-E's pump and dumps. Feel free to browse other forums to find the same reasoning.

Pump and dump again, no proof. Senate gave it publicity, they gave it a good review but they are still going to approach bitcoins with caution. There's a reason why everyone, that matters, that has thoroughly looked into bitcoins gave it a good review.

Sentence on the ATM's, what can i say, congratulations? This doesn't create an argument. It's nothing except a simple fact that they're planning to create one.

They've already released a few. This is all within the year bitcoins went from $5 to $1200. Keep in mind bitcoin ATMs were shown in May and has been set up to be used in europe. This was all when Bitcoins were around $200 each.

The twins, they invested to it and they think it's a factor due to the price increase. It isn't relevant to the argument if one should invest in bitcoins just because others did. Go buy shares in the las vegas sands casino like sheldon adelson did, and loose 1 Billion Dollars.

It's hard to say they are wrong when they probably were able to take advantage of bitcoins more than anyone else. I obviously never said to invest in bitcoins because they did. There's a whole list of points I gave you. But wouldn't you be more inclined to invest now you know that the 2 people that saw the market about to emerge actually emerge? They wouldn't blindly invest millions of dollars into something without doing research.

I only hear pump and dump when there is little proof of its existence, or at least it's not making that big of an impact. I see the prices moving according to news about bitcoins. When there's positive news about it, it goes up, when there's negative news about it, it goes down (China). I have never seen bitcoins go up from 500-1000 in a day after negative news, and I have never seen bitcoins go down without negative news. You can keep saying pump and dump, but how do you know this isn't them scaring you? "Bitcoins are about to be dumped! Panic sell everyone!" And thats when they can start buying bitcoins for cheaper. Scares like that happens everywhere, including runescape, when people wants to buy a bulk of something that has a limited supply unless dumped.

 

[The Ract]

It's not stabilizing at 650. Get with the news. China's largest bitcoin exchanged has "temporarily" stopped accepting deposits in Chinese yuan. Dont blame everything on pump and dump, which there isn't much proof of apart from people's words. Bitcoins dropped from 200+ to around 50 when the silk road owner was caught, that was panic selling. As soon as China did what they did, bitcoins went from 1200 to 500 overnight, not because of pump and dump. Google it.



Pump and dump again, no proof. Senate gave it publicity, they gave it a good review but they are still going to approach bitcoins with caution. There's a reason why everyone, that matters, that has thoroughly looked into bitcoins gave it a good review.



They've already released a few. This is all within the year bitcoins went from $5 to $1200. Keep in mind bitcoin ATMs were shown in May and has been set up to be used in europe. This was all when Bitcoins were around $200 each.



It's hard to say they are wrong when they probably were able to take advantage of bitcoins more than anyone else. I obviously never said to invest in bitcoins because they did. There's a whole list of points I gave you. But wouldn't you be more inclined to invest now you know that the 2 people that saw the market about to emerge actually emerge? They wouldn't blindly invest millions of dollars into something without doing research.

I only hear pump and dump when there is little proof of its existence, or at least it's not making that big of an impact. I see the prices moving according to news about bitcoins. When there's positive news about it, it goes up, when there's negative news about it, it goes down (China). I have never seen bitcoins go up from 500-1000 in a day after negative news, and I have never seen bitcoins go down without negative news. You can keep saying pump and dump, but how do you know this isn't them scaring you? "Bitcoins are about to be dumped! Panic sell everyone!" And thats when they can start buying bitcoins for cheaper. Scares like that happens everywhere, including runescape, when people wants to buy a bulk of something that has a limited supply unless dumped.

You made many valid points there which are all leading me to believe I should invest in some BTC. Thanks for the input I'll do a little more research on them, set up a wallet and probably purchase within the next week or so.