Animal testing

Discussion in 'Something For All' started by Outkast_Bro, Apr 24, 2008.

Animal testing
  1. Unread #1 - Apr 24, 2008 at 12:53 AM
  2. Outkast_Bro
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    Animal testing

    < Not too sure if there is a thread on this, but I don't see one, so I made this new one. >

    Animal testing. A lot of people feel strongly about animals not being tested on, but a lot feel that it's ok, and we should test on the animals.

    Well Sythe; I'd like to know your opinions on Animal Testing. Are you for or against? Why or why not?
     
  3. Unread #2 - Apr 24, 2008 at 4:46 AM
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    Animal testing

    If it is for the greater good, there is nothing wrong with it.
     
  5. Unread #3 - Apr 24, 2008 at 4:50 AM
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    Animal testing

    better to test on animals than on humans.
     
  7. Unread #4 - Apr 24, 2008 at 10:09 AM
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    Animal testing

    I feel that only rational beings deserve rights. Animals are not rational, so they should have no rights. This makes animal testing fine.
     
  9. Unread #5 - Apr 24, 2008 at 10:10 AM
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    Animal testing

    if it's used for make-up or something I would say: test it on your own barby face. If it's used for medical reasons souch as savings lives I would say: Yey another human saved!

    So it depends what it's used for.
     
  11. Unread #6 - Apr 24, 2008 at 10:40 AM
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    Animal testing

    Does the nature of the testing affect your view? Like if its a cure for an illness or a poison gas for which to be used to commit genocide?
     
  13. Unread #7 - Apr 24, 2008 at 10:51 AM
  14. Shredderbeam
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    Animal testing

    Well, they can try out whatever gases they want on it, they just can't use them on people.
     
  15. Unread #8 - Apr 24, 2008 at 11:14 AM
  16. kher0
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    Animal testing

    I really don't know the answer of this
    My mind sayin that we can test on them ( agreeing with shredder )
    My heart refuses that

    So I dunno
     
  17. Unread #9 - Apr 24, 2008 at 11:45 AM
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    Animal testing

    Shredder and all those who say animals do not think rationally. They DO, but to a certain extent. They know not to walk into a fire, they know if they cant swim or not, but they can not do what we do because of the development of the brain. So, they are rational, but to an extent that does not nearly match ours. Should they be punished for having an under-developed brain?
     
  19. Unread #10 - Apr 24, 2008 at 11:56 AM
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    Animal testing

    I agree with this and this wat I'm saying about the heart thing . They have feelings and they feel just like us . But I can't find any answer .
    Should we stop doing researches or do it on human . Do u think there is any solution Light ?
     
  21. Unread #11 - Apr 24, 2008 at 12:00 PM
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    Animal testing

    The solution is on a bacterial level. At a microscopic level, the harm done to the environment or pain is minimal. The reactions are the same, and this is equally effective. If you take bacterial, healthy human, or animal cells, they will react in the same way. So, when testing, go down to a microscopic level because these cells are not significant and are more humane.
     
  23. Unread #12 - Apr 24, 2008 at 12:00 PM
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    Animal testing

    Domesticated animals are private property and as such may be treated, used, misused, or mistreated, by the owner in anyway he/she pleases. No one has moral authority to separate him from his lawfully obtained property.


    As for the real question: Do animals have natural rights?
    The answer is: mostly, no.

    It is often said that rights and responsibilities are two sides of the same coin. You cannot have a right without a responsibility, nor should you have a responsibility without a right. Thus for animals to have rights, they must also have responsibilities.

    A man set loose in a city will not murder, steal, or enslave people. If he does then he forfeits his natural rights (because he has neglected to uphold his responsibility not to violate the rights of others), and those who bring him to justice are morally justified in allowing him only a subset of his original rights for a period of time (such as imprisonment or return of stolen property).

    On the other hand, a lion set loose in a city will very likely murder people, as that is his nature. Because he (the lion) is unable to comprehend the concept of responsibility, and shows no sign of already having responsibility, he necessarily has no rights. No responsibility = no rights.

    The same argument is true of children in human society. While children are growing they have a limited scope of responsibility, and thus, during this time, they have a limited set of rights. By the time the child is fully responsible for his actions, however, he gains a full set of natural rights, along with a full set of responsibilities.

    One might argue that certain types of animals exhibit behaviour tending toward more responsibility than others. Such as the comparison between a dog and a wolf. There may or may not be a case for such an argument. Personally I don't believe any animal on this planet is intelligent enough to qualify for natural rights.
     
  25. Unread #13 - Apr 24, 2008 at 12:06 PM
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    Animal testing

    But they feel like us Sythe . I don't know how there will be developing without them but I feel like we are just punishing them to develop ourselves . This make me feel bad . :D
     
  27. Unread #14 - Apr 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM
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    Animal testing

    So, Sythe, it boils down to intelligence huh? Well what about the mentally ill in the human society? They might not be as intelligent as a dog (not being offensive, just in some cases.). So does this make them any less human... any less able to have rights? No, because they know the basic emotions: Fear, Happiness, Sadness, and Anger.

    In addition, every animal contributes to the world in some way, to the eco-environment or to us. If you killed all the domestic dogs, or abused them, That would affect human behaviour. If a human abuses a dog, cat, whatever. Then they become more physically aggressive towards anyone else. This is promoting the violence towards another being.

    And Finn, humans are incapable of respecting other humans rights too. In the American Consitution it gives us the right to bear arms. But the state outlaws concealed weaponry or weaponry in some public areas. So everyday you disrespect someone's rights. Whether you are not letting them talk or not letting them express their opinion
     
  29. Unread #15 - Apr 24, 2008 at 12:22 PM
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    Animal testing

    I like that but if we stopped doing experiments on them then wat . All developing things will be stopped

    Actually I'm now with finni.
     
  31. Unread #16 - Apr 24, 2008 at 12:32 PM
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    Animal testing

    And what developing things are you talking about. ALL experiments on animals are non-medical. These developing "things" would not benefit US as the human race in the long run. What could we get from running test on dogs? Better dog food? Run tests on microscopic levels as i said. Equally as effective, results are identical and it is more humane.
     
  33. Unread #17 - Apr 24, 2008 at 12:36 PM
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    Animal testing

    If we can do experiments on microscope lvl like u said and all exp on them aren't useful so ofcourse I agree with u . I hate treating anything badly if its feel human, animal or even insect . And u know wat , If doing exp on them is right I think I will neva be able to do that .
     
  35. Unread #18 - Apr 25, 2008 at 1:28 AM
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    Animal testing

    Of course it makes you feel bad. The vast majority of humans have empathy. Empathy is a necessary limitation on the rational mind so we do not disregard others who may be necessary to our continued existence by mistake. The advantage with respect to animals is that we generally treat them well enough to keep them relatively happy and alive; An economic benefit.

    Empathy and natural rights are separate things. You may feel sorry for a murderer in prison, because he is having a hard time of it. This does not mean he should have the right to walk down your street at night.

    Here we must make a distinction between sets of responsibilities. If it is likely that the entity in question (be it human, animal, alien, whatever) will later develop a full or partial set of responsibilities, then we ourselves have the responsibility not to mistreat it or put it to death, unless that is the only way to save ourselves from immediate peril.

    So, like the murderer in prison, you may feel sorry for a retarded adult, but you are still not going to afford him, say the right to operate an automobile, because he is likely to kill someone, having not understood his responsibilities nor the nature of his actions.

    However, unlike an animal, if there is a chance that one day the retard will recover (say by an advance in stem cell research) or by his own healing processes then you have the responsibility not to directly harm him (unless there is no other way to save yourself from immediate peril) during his period of retardedness. This however does not make him your responsibility to take care of. That responsibility can only be taken on voluntarily, and is usually taken on by the parents or a private charity.

    If, in the extreme case, a dangerous retard (say a retard with a gun or vehicle) were not taken care of by anyone, then he could be thought of as immediately similar to a dangerous animal prowling the streets. He may wind up in prison because of this, or dead. This is nobody's fault. It is just a clean fact of metaphysical justice. If the retard were left to fend for himself in the wilderness he would wind up dead there too.

    Arguably the retard, the child, and the criminal are not wholly dissimilar, in that they all have limited responsibility (or have shown a lack of responsibility), and thus all have limited rights for a period of time. The animal on the other hand has no possibility of accepting responsibility for its actions and thus never had rights to begin with.


    Contribution? This is a fallacy of terms. A dog cannot contribute. To 'contribute' is to do so willfully as a result of the intention. By the same logic gravity contributes, and water contributes, and the sun contributes. No, these are just constants of nature which do not contribute in any human sense, they follow their nature and we take advantage of that nature through our rational understanding.

    I think you are missing the point. Dogs, cats, animals, having no rights, are deemed private property. There would be no way 'to abuse all', because the private property is not all owned by one person. Further, if you were to mistreat your pet and turn him into an aggressive untrusting beast, then you've damaged the value of your asset. Very few people would buy a dog which is going to bite their neck during the night -- unless of course it is a special breed.

    Well the right to free speech is not actually a fundamental natural right. It extends from the right to own and exchange private property. What good is free speech if you cannot own or hire a meeting hall in which to speak to an audience? What good is free speech if you cannot own a newsletter and give it away or exchange it for coin?

    The right to bear arms is also an extension of the fundamental natural right to own private property. Even the right to own an atomic bomb (if you can obtain one) is granted to every fully responsible human. Obviously the right to own something does not imply the right to use it in every situation. The use of an atomic bomb, for example, would almost never be justified because it almost always kills innocent people and damages the private property of others. Further, the people who lived around you might contest your right to keep it anywhere near their town and property. This too would be valid because you cannot ensure complete responsibility for the detonation of such a device (it might go off by accident). This does not eliminate your right to keep it, just your right to keep it near other people.


    Are you kidding? Rats are probably the most widely used experimental means for testing new medication and medical hypothesis.
     
  37. Unread #19 - Apr 25, 2008 at 4:43 AM
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    Animal testing

    What makes them irrational or not rational?

    I do believe in animal testing with certain things because animals are supposed to be treated very well while being tested. They do conduct these tests on both animals and humans, if you knew what you were talking about. Animals don't happen to be scape goats and they are rarely, if at all harmed in the process, if it's a genuine lab doing the work.

    True animal testing is for the well being of us, humans. It is also not meant to harm humans or animals. Animals are just easy to handle and can be taken care of easily. Humans volunteer to help conduct these trials and what-not.

    I am also an animal lover, not a fighter, if you must know.
     
  39. Unread #20 - Apr 25, 2008 at 4:52 AM
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    Animal testing

    Again, you've got to be joking. With almost all medical experiments the specimen is put to death and cut up, before being turned into microscope slides for examination.

    I think you have a grossly simplistic view of the wide range of processes and experiments performed on captive animals. From the testing of new military weapons, to the testing of new drugs, to the breaking of spines to test stem-cell spine repair research, animals are treated poorly most everywhere they are experimented on. I don't have a problem with this, clearly you do.

    Review my natural rights argument and tell me which responsibilities you believe animals exhibit that would afford them rights on a level equivalent to humans.
     
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