America - Good or Bad?

[Apith]

Where do I start?

I'd like to discuss this with people from all over the world in Sythe. How do you see America? For me, I see them thinking they are the superhero of the world, and anyone that stands against them for their own personal reasons gets punished.

I'll start from the information I've gathered, researched, and heard.

Let's start with Saddam. Why is he dead? Why did you believe everything the media told you? Was he really a bad man? Why is he dead right now? You want to know why?

Because Saddam didn't approve of the US. A lot of countries don't want to use $s, but they don't have much of a choice. I'll go deeper into this later.

In 2000 Saddam announced that Iraqi oil would be traded in Euros, not dollars anymore. Some say sanctions and an invasion followed because the Americans were desperate to prevent OPEC from transferring oil trading in all its member countries to the euro.

What happened to him? He's dead, he looks like he was one of the worst human beings on earth. And it's been like that for a while. He was a little bad I'll admit. But not to the extent everyone else thinks.

Next.

Gadaffi and Mubarak. They had plans to introduce "Gold Dinars". Google it and do research about it.

Some believe it is about protecting civilians, others say it is about oil, but some are convinced intervention in Libya is all about Gaddafi’s plan to introduce the gold dinar, a single African currency made from gold, a true sharing of the wealth.

“It’s one of these things that you have to plan almost in secret, because as soon as you say you’re going to change over from the dollar to something else, you’re going to be targeted,” says Ministry of Peace founder Dr James Thring. “There were two conferences on this, in 1986 and 2000, organized by Gaddafi. Everybody was interested, most countries in Africa were keen."

Gaddafi did not give up. In the months leading up to the military intervention, he called on African and Muslim nations to join together to create this new currency that would rival the dollar and euro. They would sell oil and other resources around the world only for gold dinars.

It is an idea that would shift the economic balance of the world.

A country’s wealth would depend on how much gold it had and not how many dollars it traded. And Libya has 144 tons of gold. The UK, for example, has twice as much, but ten times the population.

“If Gaddafi had an intent to try to re-price his oil or whatever else the country was selling on the global market and accept something else as a currency or maybe launch a gold dinar currency, any move such as that would certainly not be welcomed by the power elite today, who are responsible for controlling the world’s central banks,” says Anthony Wile, founder and chief editor of the Daily Bell.

“So yes, that would certainly be something that would cause his immediate dismissal and the need for other reasons to be brought forward from moving him from power.”

Everybody was interested, except US. Because this would have put the US in a far worse situation than it is currently.

Some say the US and its NATO allies literally could not afford to let that happen.

What do they do? They made them look bad in front of the world, so people would not question their doings. Instead people would praise the US for doing so.

Please tell me why there are over 1000 US bases around the globe? If I remember correctly, everyone of these were supposed to be temporary. Instead, they haven't moved, and they've been putting more bases around. Right now the US is some sort of super power because of this, they've given them the advantage of division. They can attack countries, if ever needed, from every side.

The US approaches everything in a different way. How come we have to use the $s? Why couldn't it be a different currency. How come it's them benefiting from this the most?

I challenge anyone to change my mind about America. I'll be looking forward to the stories made up by the media, that people would post sources to. You cannot say all of these are true, that it was the real reason the US interfered.

Edit:
Here you guys go, I didn't think I would have to spoon feed some of you. But it's been requested:
Libya:

Subsidized food, inexpensive housing, free medical care and education, and profit-sharing were among the benefits that eased the lives of all citizens. The government protected the employed in their jobs and subsidized the underemployed and unemployed. In addition, there were nurseries to care for the children of working mothers, orphanages for homeless children, and homes for the aged. The welfare programs had reached even the oasis towns of the desert, where they reportedly were received with considerable satisfaction.

Today all Libyans own their own homes and cars. In the words of two Fleet Street journalists, David Blundy and Andrew Lycett, who are by no means supporters of the Libyan Arab revolution, "The young people are well dressed, well fed and well educated. Libyans now earn more per capita than the British. The disparity in annual incomes... is smaller than in most countries. Libya's wealth has been fairly spread throughout society. Every Libyan has a job and a decent salary. He gets free, and often excellent, education, medical and health services. New colleges and hospitals are impressive by any international standard. All Libyans have a house or a flat, a car and most have televisions, video recorders and telephones. Compared with most citizens of the Third World countries, and with many in the First World, Libyans have it very good indeed." (Source: QADDAFI AND THE LIBYAN REVOLUTION)

Brother Qadhafi is popular with all Libyans, especially the youth. Frequently, he will drive his own small car (green VW beetle) to factory dedications and similar ceremonies with very little personal security. He mingles freely with the people who eagerly seek to shake his hand. They frequently shout such slogans as, "I will live and die with Mu`ammar Qadhafi".

Unlike Nigeria and Mexico, where none of the oil wealth seeps down to benefit the populace, under Libya's system of direct democracy summed up in the popular slogan "all power, wealth and arms in the hands of the people", all the oil profits are transferred directly to the people. No longer is wealth hoarded by a select few as in the days before the 1969 Revolution. The streets of Tripoli are filled with privately-owned late model cars. Modern apartment complexes are going up everywhere making the city look like one huge construction site.

Housing projects have been developed right across the country so as to ensure every Libyan has the right to own his own home. Every citizen has been given a decent house or apartment to live in rent-free. In Col. Qadhafi's Green Book we read: "The house is a basic need of both the individual and the family, therefore it should not be owned by others." This dictum has now become a reality for the Libyan Arab people.

Today, Libya can boast one of the finest health care systems in the Arab world. All people have access to doctors, hospitals, clinics and medicines, completely free of all charges.

Because of the deliberately dishonest and even vile portrayals of the leader in the controlled media, not much is known regarding Qaddafi's political thoughts and his guiding ideology. He is described in the media as a dictator, yet in "The Green Book", Qaddafi outlines the actual governing foundation that undergirds the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya. That foundation is The Third Universal Theory -- which upon critical analysis -- puts many so-called Western Democracies and Republics to shame.

More of the quotes can be read in the sources stated below.

Sources:
Source
Source
Source
Source

And another edit.

There is no real proof that it really happened. If it did, why was it reported over a decade later and brought forward to the public then? I've also put the key sentences in bold, in the quote below. As I said, he isn't as bad as everyone thinks.

Halabja (pop. 80,000) is a small Kurdish city in northern Iraq. On Wednesday, the Star reminded readers that Saddam Hussein's Iraqi army killed 5,000 Kurds in a 1988 chemical weapons attack on Halabja near the end of a bloody, eight-year war with Iran.

The statement that Saddam was responsible for gassing the Kurds — his own people — was straightforward.

Indeed, U.S. President George W. Bush has used similar language about the disaster at Halabja in making a case for a military strike to oust Saddam.

Yet the Star also reported, in a Jan. 31 Opinion page column, that there's reason to believe the story about Saddam "gassing his own people" at Halabja may not even be true.

Curious about those contradictory reports, and prodded by Star reader Bill Hynes, the ombud decided to examine how this paper covered the Halabja story 15 years ago, when Washington was tilting toward Saddam's side in the Iran-Iraq war.

The Star's early coverage was skimpy. I found no breaking news story about the March 16, 1988 gas attack on the city.

But four days later, a Reuters News Agency dispatch (filed from Cyprus) said Kurds, fighting on the Iranian side, had managed to seize Halabja and nearby villages "where Iran has accused Iraq of using chemical weapons against Kurds."

It explained that Iraq and Iran were accusing each other of using poison gas in violation of the 1925 Geneva Protocol against chemical weapons.

The former CIA official revealed that immediately after the battle the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report that said it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds.

Both sides used gas at Halabja, Pelletiere suggested.

"The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent — that is, a cyanide-based gas — which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time."

The accusation that Iraq has used chemical weapons against its citizens is a familiar part of the debate. The piece of hard evidence most frequently brought up concerns the gassing of Iraqi Kurds at the town of Halabja in March 1988, near the end of the eight-year Iran-Iraq war. President Bush himself has cited Iraq's "gassing its own people," specifically at Halabja, as a reason to topple Saddam Hussein.

Just google "Did Iran gas the kurds".

How did it come down to Saddam's doing, after he stepped up to America? There was on proof that it was his doing. Iran could have simply planned this and frame Iraq, which is what most likely happened.

Do keep in mind that I was not prepared for most of this, but as you guys have challenged me, I've done some digging, and it only leads me further from being convinced.

Source
Source

The president of Syria stated:

"Syria is the hub now in this region. It is the fault line, and if you play with the ground you will cause an earthquake."

"Do you want to see another Afghanistan, or tens of Afghanistans?" Assad said. "Any problem in Syria will burn the whole region. If the plan is to divide Syria, that is to divide the whole region."

He knows what's been going on, and he's come prepared, warning the US of the possible outcome if they do to them what has been done to Libya.

Source

 

[Dimethyl]

Suddam wasn't a bad man? I can't take you seriously after that. Forget about the U.S. He was hated by his own country. He was known for terrorizing his people and committed mass genocide. He was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Saying he wasn't that bad is beyond ignorant. Was Bin Laden a good man too?

 

[runescapeobject]

Saddam was for sure a bad man, and killed alot of his own people. But what america did is killing x1000 more people. Saddam hold iraq safe, what america did is stealing whatever iraq had... Thats how I see it

 

[Emperor Nero]

I detested Bush and I believe the war was for oil, but arguing that Sadam was a good person is ludicrous. He used Mustard gas on his own people, which is illegal in the Geneva Code. You aren't even providing links to sources, which are probably about the same credibility as a YouTube video.

 

[Apith]

I never said Saddam was good, I said he wasn't as bad as said. I know someone that studied in Iraq, when it offered far better education than it does now. Iraq was doing fine, Saddam wasn't known by the public and wasn't that bad, until he announced how oil would be sold.

He was greedy and did harsh things to people. But it came down to someone that wanted to step up, he went overboard with what he did to the people.

Please do keep in mind that I have nothing against anyone from America, but only the doings of the country. Their way of approaching things is different from every other country.

I have also edited my original post. I said to do research on it, yet you just claim that it has the same credibility of Youtube.

Do keep in mind that these things happened before their falls. So it should be valid, and it could be the main reason US has been doing the things they have. If you think about it, why would US let any other country overpower them? Lead them to their fall?

The one thing Ron Paul would be doing is doing what every other country does. He would pull out most of the US bases around the world. He would focus on the economy of America rather than what America has been doing in order to stay on top. And that was to eliminate any possible threats that could lead to a downfall to the economy.

What happened? Have you seen the price of Iraqi Dinars? The guy I know, well he is a friend of my dad. He was telling my dad about when he studied there, and how much allowance he was given per month from his scholarship. He said that he saved almost all of it, and after the whole thing started, instead of US' economy going doing, Iraq's go down. Now their money is next to worthless.

 

[kill dank]

Don't be ignorant. You can't base your opinion of a whole nation of people on the words of a few or the actions of their government. Grow the fuck up. It doesn't matter how many sources you have.

 

[Apith]

Don't be ignorant. You can't base your opinion of a whole nation of people on the words of a few or the actions of their government. Grow the fuck up. It doesn't matter how many sources you have.

But you chose to believe the media. And where are their sources? Just because they say something, how does that make it true?

You tell me why the 3 people whom challenged America, how come everyone else who tried to put a dent into the country, something bad has happened to them?

Please explain to me why would the Libyans were rebel when they had such benefits? Instead of saying I'm ignorant, and I should grow the fuck up. Why not convince me?

I'll be editing my original post about Saddam. Will be edited shortly after this post.

 

[Sillymonkey]

While in power, Saddam kept a large majority of the country opressed due to their religious beliefs. He did a lot of fucked up shit that humanitarians wouldn't like.

That being said, Iraq and many other places that the US decides to fuck with don't have the political or economic influence for them to matter. The US has lately -attempted- to shy away from the role as the aggressor, but it will take awhile to lose that image.

Also, to kill dank, I'm not disagreeing with you but I find it fucking hilarious when reporters from other countries go to the US and ask people questions.

Not long ago Australian reporters went to Texas and asked people to point out Iraq on a map, and because Australia was labelled 'Iraq', people pointed there. People are also asked about their stances against X country and say that the president believes that should be invaded for Y reason, and just because they are told the president thinks it should be invaded they jump on the bandwagon and start agreeing with the reasons (even though they are bogus).

I guess part of the reason I moved out of the USA is because of how ignorant people are. There are ignorant people all over the world, but in all my travelling I have never encountered a mass that feels so much self entitlement and is filled with so much ignorance as I have encountered while living in the USA for 20 years.

 

[Apith]

^

That. People just hops on the bandwagon, they refuse to believe anything otherwise. It seems harder than I thought to convince people otherwise. Which I cannot blame anyone for, because most of you are Americans. And everyone would like their country to be praised.

Dank, you're also getting the wrong idea. I'm not "basing my opinion of a whole nation of people on the words of a few or the actions of their government."

I've either seen videos, or read somewhere, that the some of the Americans does not like nor approve of most of the actions of the government. I said I didn't have anything on the people, but the country itself. It's how the government and president handles situations.

That's also like saying "You can't base your opinion of every arab/muslim, that they are terrorists, based on the actions of other terrorists". Admit it, people sees the middle east as something horrible. There was a discussion about this, Finn based it on the actions of previous doings of terrorists. A lot of people does, oh you see an arab, first thing that comes to your mind "Terrorist". Because of people like Bin laden, it's made people think that the Middle East is a dangerous place. Speaking of him, he was one who also had enough of America. It all started because America chose to sit in Saudi and have a base (or however many) there.

Please read through the whole thread next time, without jumping to a conclusion and having much point to argue. I never based it as you said.

This thread is about whoever has been controlling America, has always approached things differently, hurting others in the process of defending itself. Rather than finding a different solution, without hurting others in the process.

You do know the same fate would have happened to Iran, if it wasn't prepared for such an event that is ongoing right now.

Please read this.

The president of Syria stated:

"Syria is the hub now in this region. It is the fault line, and if you play with the ground you will cause an earthquake."

"Do you want to see another Afghanistan, or tens of Afghanistans?" Assad said. "Any problem in Syria will burn the whole region. If the plan is to divide Syria, that is to divide the whole region."

He knows what's been going on, and he's come prepared, warning the US of the possible outcome if they do to them what has been done to Libya.

 

[HEHEGGG]

It is true that America think they are the "Superman" of the world and I understand why they think that way because I have moved to America for a few years.
The actions of America have their own reason, it depends on which part of America that you are talking about that is bad. To me, the worst part of America is it's populations, though there are few understanding, open view people, most of the populations in America are often ignorant. This is often the main reason why America act the way it is.

 

[Emperor Nero]

It all depends on where you live in the US as to the way they act. If you are in Texas they are going to be mostly hard core conservatives that believe anything Fox News says. If you go elsewhere it is different. It all depends on the region.

 

[Apith]

It is true that America think they are the "Superman" of the world and I understand why they think that way because I have moved to America for a few years.
The actions of America have their own reason, it depends on which part of America that you are talking about that is bad. To me, the worst part of America is it's populations, though there are few understanding, open view people, most of the populations in America are often ignorant. This is often the main reason why America act the way it is.

It's what the country is doing, not the people. They feel like they should be handling every situation, whether they're involved or not. They mainly involve themselves in the situations that could affect them negatively, but the way the handle it is appalling.

 

[x339]

America is the way it is now because its filled with idiots, and people like you. The idiots are pretty self explanatory, but its people like you who are really ruining this country (and I know your from a different country, but people like you are everywhere). You think you know the one true side of the story, and that everyone else is an idiot for what they think. You also assume that because a certain group of people think something based on certain information, that the entire population thinks that way. That is where you are wrong, you can't sum up the entirety of America with your smug, sanctimonious, and superior ideas. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It is obvious that the point of this thread is to put down and disgrace the actions and ideas of the United States. So with that FUCK OFF.

 

[Apith]

America is the way it is now because its filled with idiots, and people like you. The idiots are pretty self explanatory, but its people like you who are really ruining this country (and I know your from a different country, but people like you are everywhere). You think you know the one true side of the story, and that everyone else is an idiot for what they think. You also assume that because a certain group of people think something based on certain information, that the entire population thinks that way. That is where you are wrong, you can't sum up the entirety of America with your smug, sanctimonious, and superior ideas. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It is obvious that the point of this thread is to put down and disgrace the actions and ideas of the United States. So with that FUCK OFF.

Why not convince me other wise? I've heard both sides of the story. I do think Americans are nice people, and I've never called them ignorant. I said it was the country. A very good friend of mine is from there, and I know quite a few people from there.

At least explain how it's people like me ruining the country? I'm just starting to see it from a different perspective, I'm not here to bash the country, but simply to hear out your opinions and views on such matter. You have never decided to even hear the other side of the story, nor have you given it a chance. But what if?

The other powers of the world are quiet and have rarely gotten themselves involved in situations. But the actions America takes is something completely different. I didn't say that I know the true side of the story. I was simply asking people to change my mind if it isn't the true side. I was merely stating what if it was true?

You do know that some Americans disapproves of some of the action of their own country. And they know how other people sees them? They are disappointed because some people thinks they act like the government. They feel like they are being represented by the government, when I know they aren't. You however, seem to think differently.

Just likes Arab for example, I'm sure a lot of them disapproves of what Bin Laden and other terrorists have done. They aren't like that, but it's pictured that a lot of the arabs are.

I did understand the risks of starting this thread, and that it would have created a few people hating me. But this is going too far, and people are acting immature now.

P.S Don't be mad because you got owned in my suggestion thread and stopped replying there. It is obvious you're just looking for some other way to get to me for losing there.

 

[FireZ]

Yeah this argument is going to stop before it gets anywhere else.....