Account services should be changed

so I'm gonna keep this short and sweet as I'm on mobile.

One thing i personally feel should be changed or at least looked into is how people operate in the section, as you can see by a no offence to @Azie a fuckery of a dispute due to @Marcellus1404

We should have it so similar to how osbot and Powerbot works they must list their workers, this would at least ensure some safety on who is being hired. I have always contended with this policy and I don't believe that it should be any different for other people at all. Although this doesn't protect everyone 100% it can still help with such things like confirmation if they add their Skype to the worker list along with their profile link and other things, I don't like seeing scams and I feel that these people who use third parties are actually damaging the reputation of the rest of us.

I understand that for example when I sell gold I say "no newcomers" so sort of like calling me a hipocrite really but the gold section is a complete different standpoint to the service section where everything can be and is very often botted.

 

just making sure, you want service providers to provide a list of skype ID's + sythe profile links on the service page?

Or are you referring to the fact that we shouldn't be allowed to outsource <- which I allow given that no concent is given by the Owner of the account in question

 

Realistically both.

Outsourcing causes problems from what I keep seeing.

 

I can support the latter not the first,

Most of my workers except 4 don't have sythe/(skype?) as they are ex-clanmates, and I have no intention of forcing them to make on either. I don't really see a need for this either, could you explain to me why you think this would be necessary w/o me having to read a 5 page long report ?

 

pn phone still so excuse my bad spelling, if they are clan mates that's understandable but in the stance where the forum is, a lot of them are new comers/ ban evaders looking for quick gold/scams, a lot of people think that it's acceptable and it's pathetic really, be on in 30'mins so I'll speak then.

 

It shouldn't matter if it's outsourced, if they outsource and they scam then it will fall onto the person who they work for. If they didn't trust their workers then they wouldn't use them - particularly relevant in C0ngs case.

 

in such cases why do we see someone like @Marcellus1404 this way then?

 

Apologies for my crappy replies so far @Dinosaur Pk, and especially you @c0ngs as it seems we have a very good understanding towards each other.

Now let me explain fully whilst i'm on a PC (well my laptop) so starters - I don't believe anyone should be allowed to outsource work unless it's actually an official worker, if it be your brother your grandmother or your pet dog makes no difference.

With that being said, I would also advise/suggest ALL service providers should be made to update their service threads unless it's such cases like you said @c0ngs where the users are your "clan mates" although, I would possibly suggest they would still have to make an account on Sythe at minimum - I wouldn't want to pay you for a service and find out a worker/third party did it if I specifically paid you/requested you.

Now moving on to my real points I am trying to make here, with such cases as I have mentioned @Marcellus1404 as he made a complete asshat of himself in the dispute section as found here - Really Complicated Scam- Need Advice/Help the problem that we face here is that people can commonly lie and you wouldn't know. SO MANY people do not request screenshots after a service is complete, it's a simple "oh thanks, where can I feedback?" or with Sythe it's vouches of course.

And with that being said, this also commonly helps people abuse the feedback/vouch systems on other platforms and not just Sythe, myself I believe I am one of the best / if not best paid service provider on 2-3 different forums as of right now, Powerbot being one where I had the same situation as found here - VitalityNetwork/TrinityServices feedback farming / rule breaking - Whilst Sythe may not punish people for things such as shown in both disputes above, I would as I say suggest looking into it as it would make life a lot easier for staff and a slight less push towards the dispute section each time they log on due to 50 people doing the same thing and not learning.

With this also, there is nothing to say that newcomers cannot do services, of course they can - But something you typically see these days (at least on Sythe and Marcs part here) they offer to do a service for 1M but you offer 2M, the person goes with you because you seem more trusted, you then contact the new comer for 1M prices because it profits you more for nothing, that's being lazy as hell and you also receive feedback/vouches which is then feedback/vouch farming also.

By all means, you're welcome to call me out about this, as I might be going off in the wrong direction.

 

I'll just chip in a little bit. I think many of the scams, probably the majority, when it comes to services, is due to negligence on both parts. I would say that 60-70% of scams would be avoided if people just sat down for a second and read 1) Sythe rules and 2) their sections rules/warning/suggestions. They're there to avoid this kind of thing.

However, I do agree that it's wrong to mislead someone into thinking you will provide the service when, in reality, the work is being outsourced. My recommendation is that service threats should specify that the work will be done by someone else, as well as acknowledge that they're fully responsible for the actions of his/her worker.

Thirdly, and to Congs' point, regardless if they have Skype/Sythe or not, I think it's fair to require service people to at least provide some type of contact information of the worker. Say, Skype, sythe username, email, etc. They're being paid, so I think it's a little bit absurd to say "I have no intention on forcing them to make one either".

 

@Dbuffed before stating that I made an asshat of myself did you read the entire report? not only the accusations made against me? because clearly there I did 90% of the work ( so he needed me to do the package to answer your question) and also I explicitly asked for permission to hire a skiller for a "few skills" which looking at the facts and the nature of the situation, I was given such permission at the said time.........

 

Yes, I have read the whole thing, in fact i've been following it for quite some time.

With what I am saying, 1) you wouldn't be able to use third parties like you have 2) you wouldn't be able to get into the mess you seem to keep finding yourself.

 

Spoiler: quote

The worker part I see where you're coming from, the issue is that there's no real way to verify any of it with that being said, workers could get contacted by users and workers could directly scam sythe users, because let's face is the average sythe user is stupid.

With this in mind if a worker does scam someone, (being directly contacted by the user) where does liability fall, and if it does fall with the worker itself, where do service providers stand, are they still allowed to use that specific worker? And what about deposits in such a scenario?

The outsourcing part, I feel like it would be best to implement a rule where if outsourcing isn't discussed with the user and you do outsource you're 100% liable for the account itself, even if there is no proof of botting or w/e the issue is. Emphasis lies on the fact that it's not discussed with the user. If the user does agree to outsourcing then there are in my opinion no extra rulings needed just the standard ones.

 

I don't know if it's just me being naive because I don't personally outsource any of my services but I think you made a good point by saying that people aren't taking enough precautions with their account by asking for screenshots of the service as a whole. There are countless cases such as Naerval or whatever his name was recently where he was botting the account and I know there are cases where people have been taking items off the account during the services, whether it be smaller amounts to conceal it or just outright taking their bank. A solution to this, or at least it will help reduce these types of thing happening, and is something I generally offer:

- Screenshots of each level/quest/any upon request
- Screenshots before & after of the bank/inventory
- Ensuring the player knows it isn't botted, that I'll be using OSBuddy and that it will be completed by me

Obviously it just comes down to player and whether they wanted to be protected as much as possible; it would help if people offering services actively promoted and offered these types of things as it shows how they are as a person and trades person on Sythe!

In terms of actually outsourcing, if the player is happy paying more for the services then it's not an issue? The person doing the services will be liable because they've claimed they're doing the work and if they're outsourcing to someone off-site then they should still be liable. At the end of the day, a lot of trading comes down to trust so people will pay more for someone with a better reputation so if they want to risk it to make some easy money that's their choice.

 

full support, there is literally 0 negatives of people having to list their workers except for the fact someone could potentially lose a customer due to those users having a conflict of interest. Other than that, I don't see an issue with making this an enforced rule as it doesn't really effect their business, if anything, it'll promote it due to complete transparency.

 

Apologies to both of you, I completely forgot about this thread until I just got notifications from @c0ngs and @Dropperz so appreciated to both of you.

I get where you're coming from, for me personally I have always taken deposit fees (as shown here - Hiring people 07 work ) I like to try keep things fair for all people if it be my workers or my clients that I deal with on a daily basis, and I try to stay out of the way as much as possible.

What I have told my workers when I do hire them though, for such cases of value on say an ironman I will always make sure they have GP to deposit (returned upon customers changing their passwords) for safety reasons, we as service providers should always offer the highest upright security we can.

I get that some people don't do this, and I would do the same if it was a real life friend or a general person on the forums. I am in a facebook group that deals with Runescape trading, the other day one of the admins (I am also an admin there) scammed his real life friend of 80M or so 07 which is pretty sad.. He posted "leaving the group bye" randomly, we asked why and found out why in the end from other sources. This is the problem, unless people are fully secured then there is no way of showing things, I pride myself in saying that I have never paid a deposit to work for websites though which people such as Noble when he owned scapestock could verify along with Ace (acegoldshop) and Rscrown (who now owns scapestock). I believe giving people a chance is all great in all it's honesty but maturity and dedication will always over ride anything else that gets shown to people.

I mean i'm a complete asshat sometimes to people, does it mean I shouldn't be trusted? Of course not I'm sitting here on 2B+ in orders myself (wealth) along with this weekend just passed did $800+ In sales for rsgoldfund.com - It's all down to the person and how much you believe in them I guess.

I believe screenshots should ALWAYS be there upon request, if the customer asks at the end for screenshots and you cannot provide from OSbuddy (a client that should be a must in the service section) then excuse my language but you're fucking yourself hard. I will always say that outsourcing shouldn't be allowed regardless of if the person is happy for them to or not, it causes too many complications and then enables people to break the rules as well. If people want to earn reputation, they can either join a service the real way or they can try start up on their own (I like to see people when I hire them with some experience, although I am quite settled for less)

 

I also support the idea of disclosing who may have acces to your account.

 

Support. Just like how the seller must disclose is the service is being botted or hand trained. They should also disclose who will have access to the account.

 

Fully agreed, and thank you for the support from you and @Rivenstarz

I have recently (well like ~20 mins ago) left the private facebook group I believe I spoke about (I might not have) and similar stuff happens there, although the guy has recently updated his information on one of his posts (meant to be the main one) with what bots he does use and that he does in fact bot peoples orders.

This however doesn't stop people from commenting things elsewhere/offering stuff via more posts/threads and so on not having the same information that they should required to be letting people in for.

 

I know a service providing website that has their own client which records all kind of data to ensure the safety of their customers. Maybe something for Technical Core to look at and maybe make for Sythe?