About closing threads

[OneFatMoFo]

I don't think you should be closing threads if there is still possibility of discussion, no rules are being broken and no rules are likely to be broken.

one of the examples
http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1251161

Why close the thread?
I'm gonna pm firez yes but I have seen this happen a bunch of times in the suggestion section. If you feel that the suggestion is not going to happen and give out your reasons, it shouldn't be a reason to close the thread. Close it if no one responds, if your reasons have been discussed and the thread is going no where.

tl;dr: do not close a thread just because you do not support AKA It's not going to happen. Even if it is not going to happen, why should discussion about the subject be terminated?

 

[FireZ]

Yes lets waste time and energy talking about stuff thats never going to happen/is impossible.

No need for you to discuss it if it isn't gonna happen. And we usually try to give a quick briefing as to why anyways.

 

>.>

Sorry, but this is one of the most stupid threads I've ever seen in my years of moderating. If something's not going to happen, we're not going to waste time discussing it.

 

[OneFatMoFo]

I am sorry, didn't I just post in this thread?
As far as I have seen in the thread, 2 mods did not support.
Since when is that enough for something not to happen.

My only point is that I wanted to answer the thread and perhaps put some insight as to why it COULD happen, but I can't.

 

[-Ryan]

I don't see what was wrong with closing that thread. There were valid statements that explained why the suggestion could not be implemented, no need for more discussion when the responses will just keep repeating.

 

[OneFatMoFo]

I believe that the statements that explain why the suggestion could not be implemented are invalid.
Where does my opinion go? how can you be sure it will go nowhere or that it is wrong if you haven't heard it yet.

 

[SuF]

I don't really see why suggestions can not be discussed, no matter how silly they may seem, as long as they are not breaking any rules.

 

[Scottay]

I see that forum as a place where people can suggest things they would like to have changed. It can be denied or accepted. There would be no point of the Denied Suggestions and Accepted Suggestions forums if we are just going to discuss the suggestion and never actually act on it. The example you provided was just a suggestion that got denied, there is nothing to discuss after that.

The purpose of the section is the SUGGEST things that have a possibility of being implemented. There is NO need for discussion to continue if it is not going to happen or has been denied. It just defeats the whole purpose of that forum.

 

[TheJCDaly]

I agree with Scottay, that is the suggestion forum, where only good suggestions should be posted. I personally think you should get infracted for posting ignorant suggestions (not calling yours ignorant), for wasting mod's time. Then people want to flame mods because they are not active enough, but yet they have to deal with suggestions such as these. If you want to discuss a suggestion, you should discuss it before bringing it up into the suggestion forum.

 

[OneFatMoFo]

I see that forum as a place where people can suggest things they would like to have changed. It can be denied or accepted. There would be no point of the Denied Suggestions and Accepted Suggestions forums if we are just going to discuss the suggestion and never actually act on it. The example you provided was just a suggestion that got denied, there is nothing to discuss after that.

The purpose of the section is the SUGGEST things that have a possibility of being implemented. There is NO need for discussion to continue if it is not going to happen or has been denied. It just defeats the whole purpose of that forum.

I agree completely but my complaint is not that I am not allowed to discuss a denied suggestion but:
Under what grounds was this denied?
Honest questions
Is 1 member enough to decide wether or not the suggestion is going to be implemented?
In what world are 4 posts enough to decide if the idea is going somewhere or not?
I believe that there should be at least a discussion over the subject.
On the case in subject, it wasn't a ridiculous subject to begin with and fireZ has no reasons to believe that other members of the staff will agree that it should be denied.
EDIT:

In response to jcdaily

I agree with Scottay, that is the suggestion forum, where only good suggestions should be posted.

If the suggestion is good it should be accepted.
if the suggestion is bad it should be denied.
You are implying that only suggestions that are going to be accepted should be posted.
How are you supposed to know which are good suggestions, the whole point of the section is to decide which suggestions are good and which are bad, which should get accepted or denied, if one member thinks it is bad, he can change his mind or others could post their opinions too.

If you want to discuss a suggestion, you should discuss it before bringing it up into the suggestion forum.

Now THAT'S counterpurpose

I just don't see how can a suggestion that has been up for 10 minutes and viewed by 3 persons be denied.

 

[TheJCDaly]

No, it's not. It's a suggestion forum, not a discussion forum. Its not to discuss what you think should happen, its to suggest what you think should happen, there is a difference in the two. (And how the hell can you mispell someones user name when you quote in with the next word. /fail)

 

[T V]

Honest questions
Is 1 member enough to decide wether or not the suggestion is going to be implemented?

If a moderator closes a suggestion on the grounds of it being impossible to implement, that's the end of it; there's no reason to further discuss it.

In what world are 4 posts enough to decide if the idea is going somewhere or not?

This is a forum where we have very specific rules. Moderators are assigned for the purpose of enforcing them. They are expected to know the rules forwards and back, and that's what allows them to have the final say on topics like these.

 

Upon reading your suggestion, it is quite obvious why the staff closed the thread. It's not a viable implementation, and there is nothing constructive coming from the discussion.

 

[OneFatMoFo]

No, it's not. It's a suggestion forum, not a discussion forum. Its not to discuss what you think should happen, its to suggest what you think should happen, there is a difference in the two. (And how the hell can you mispell someones user name when you quote in with the next word. /fail)

I strongly disagree, refer to sin's sticky.

If a moderator closes a suggestion on the grounds of it being impossible to implement, that's the end of it; there's no reason to further discuss it.



This is a forum where we have very specific rules. Moderators are assigned for the purpose of enforcing them. They are expected to know the rules forwards and back, and that's what allows them to have the final say on topics like these.

I would appreciate if you would take a look at the thread in question here.
The thread wasn't locked on that grounds.

And the thread was not locked because it broke any rules, it was locked because FireZ thinks it is never going to happen/ denied it.
I understand and acknowledge that you say that the staff has the final word but I remind you again that this was a single mod who locked the thread AND most importantly he didn't care about my opinion.

I would also appreciate if non-staff members limited to give their opinions rather than to speak in behalf of the community, I almost thought what you said was true.

 

[TheJCDaly]

I strongly disagree, refer to sin's sticky.



I would appreciate if you would take a look at the thread in question here.
The thread wasn't locked on that grounds.

And the thread was not locked because it broke any rules, it was locked because FireZ thinks it is never going to happen/ denied it.
I understand and acknowledge that you say that the staff has the final word but I remind you again that this was a single mod who locked the thread AND most importantly he didn't care about my opinion.

I would also appreciate if non-staff members limited to give their opinions rather than to speak in behalf of the community, I almost thought what you said was true.

Ok, Sin's sticky says nothing about that forum being a discussion thread, just that if you agree post why. Clearly if you are going to discuss an issue, their is a discussion forum 1 click up.
http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=898490
How bout you read that. Your post is a perfect example of Idealism.
If you had read and understood that sticky, this thread would not be up.

 

[T V]

You keep going about this in circles...

tl;dr: do not close a thread just because you do not support AKA It's not going to happen.

"No support" and "Not going to happen" are not the same thing... If it's not going to happen, it's because, well, it's not going to happen. I don't see how much clearer I can put it. FireZ didn't close the thread just because he didn't support; the suggestion was just not plausible.


This thread is becoming exactly what you said should be a reason for closing a suggestion topic:

Close it if no one responds, if your reasons have been discussed and the thread is going no where.

You keep asking the same question over and over again, and you keep receiving them same responses because the only example for what you're suggesting in this topic, is of an unrealistic suggestion; there was no way that suggestion would have been implemented, regardless of how much support it did or didn't get.

Your post is a perfect example of Idealism.
If you had read and understood that sticky, this thread would not be up.

Exactly this^

 

[OneFatMoFo]

Ok, Sin's sticky says nothing about that forum being a discussion thread, just that if you agree post why.

As far I understand posting why you support something constitutes an argument, and contradicting arguments create a discussion.

Clearly if you are going to discuss an issue, their is a discussion forum 1 click up.

Do you mean Community General? (Oh yes, a lot of serious discussion about sythe.org management going up there)
Read this : Want to see something changed? Want to see what others are thinking about Sythe.org? Check this forum out!
That is the description for the suggestion thread.

http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=898490
How bout you read that. Your post is a perfect example of Idealism.
If you had read and understood that sticky, this thread would not be up.

Again, the thread was not closed because it was impossible to implement or because it was idealist. The reasons I got as to why the thread was not closed and the suggestion was "denied" was because

I can write anything and quote it, and without that I couldn't.

And

Wouldn't work well for general discussions.

The first reason didn't make much sense ( but I believe he meant to say that if my suggestion gets accepted, he wouldn't be able to do what I am trying to make impossible to do) and the second is not really a reason.
We could just have this discussion about it being easy or uneasy to implement on the thread.

You keep going about this in circles...



"No support" and "Not going to happen" are not the same thing... If it's not going to happen, it's because, well, it's not going to happen. I don't see how much clearer I can put it. FireZ didn't close the thread just because he didn't support; the suggestion was just not plausible.


This thread is becoming exactly what you said should be a reason for closing a suggestion topic:



You keep asking the same question over and over again, and you keep receiving them same responses because the only example for what you're suggesting in this topic, is of an unrealistic suggestion; there was no way that suggestion would have been implemented, regardless of how much support it did or didn't get.




Exactly this^

I totally agree with this, we are going off the topic. This is not for discussion if the suggestion was or was not idealistic or easy to implement.
But since the thread is gravitating towards the discussion of wether it is easy to implement, it further prooves my point that there was still a lot of discussion left to be within the thread.

I am sorry to everyone if I often am unclear with what I say, I have never been good with expressing myself and added to that I am talking in a foreign language so it might be a bit difficult to understand me.
I am going to post a little something in the suggestion thread to clear this up a bit.
But I am going to wait till tomorrow to see if I can get a little more insight from some staff rather than non staff.

 

[FireZ 2]

Talking about something thats never going to be possible/implemented is not only silly but its irrational. Making another thread complaining about it is irrational as well.

When something can't be done, expect the thread to be shutdown, its called efficient moderation. I personally don't like to waste time and am not going to entertain a circus of a suggestions forum with a bunch of dead end ideas going in circles all day.

Also how many users viewed that thread and how long it was up was totally irrelevant to it being closed. If I had got there 30 secs after it was posted I'd have denied it off the get go. Our staff has seen enough ideas enough times to know what is/isn't possible and we will shutdown anything that isn't very quickly.

 

[OneFatMoFo]

Talking about something thats never going to be possible/implemented is not only silly but its irrational. Making another thread complaining about it is irrational as well.

When something can't be done, expect the thread to be shutdown, its called efficient moderation. I personally don't like to waste time and am not going to entertain a circus of a suggestions forum with a bunch of dead end ideas going in circles all day.

Also how many users viewed that thread and how long it was up was totally irrelevant to it being closed. If I had got there 30 secs after it was posted I'd have denied it off the get go. Our staff has seen enough ideas enough times to know what is/isn't possible and we will shutdown anything that isn't very quickly.

I am sorry if I am being a bit to heavy on this.

what did you mean by this?

Not going to happen due to multiple reasons. I can write anything and quote it, and without that I couldn't. Wouldn't work well for general discussions.

The sole reason I am complaining about this is because I don't understand why it could never be implemented, I would like to know how were you so certain that it would never be implemented?
I think I deserve to know why the suggestion was denied.
I believe that a suggestion should not be denied without giving the chance to the original poster to argument about it, if this goes nowhere then I will open a suggestion about not denying suggestions, if you can not accept a suggestion by your own, you shouldn't be able to deny a suggestion by your own. get my point?
You believe it is impossible to implement, I believe it is possible to implement, I tell you how it is possilbe, you tell me why it is impossible.
That is how it should go.
Also remember you aren't the only mod in the section so unless you are sure that all or most other staff members are going to think the same thing as you, you shouldn't be closing the thread either.

 

[Emperor Nero]

If it isn't going to happen and you have been blatantly told that, it shouldn't matter why it won't happen. You just have to accept that it isn't going to happen and move on, not create a thread to whine about how your suggestion got denied. When you have been around here as long as many of us have you know when stuff isn't going to work, and it doesn't matter how much you argue it - it isn't going to happen. Maybe I want Sythe to declare me Emperor of Sythe and I can suggest that, but it isn't going to happen and they could list off 1,000,000 reasons why not but the fact is that it isn't going to happen so there is no point in arguing the pros and cons if it is impossible.