Resolved

[aPurity]

Dispute profile link: Bakkar
Amount Disputed: 35KC Solo Cox
Discord ID + Unique Discord ID: .bakkar + 738239548672311457
Proof that it's their Discord: https://i.imgur.com/AJITIRj.jpg
Explanation of the trade:

The order so far is 320 Solo COX KC which is almost complete, when initiating contact it was agreed and is stated in the server that If worker dies once it will count as a half raid. This was also confirmed within the ticket.
I agreed with this and placed the order in the ticket, the worker would then screenshot each completed KC in the ticket. It was up until a few days ago where I was checking a few of the screenshots to see the progress of the order and to see if the agreement in place was being followed. I messaged Bakkar to say that I didn't feel that all the KC's were being tallied correctly, in that a KC that was completed with say a single death was being counted as a full kc and that raids completed with more deaths than this were either being still counted as a full KC or counting as a half KC. Bakkar asked me to go through all of the KC and to mark the screenshots with an emoji to indicate where I felt the KC was correct and where it was not correct. I had found this:

1. First 110 KC - 100.5KC completed (9.5 KC difference)
2. Second 110 KC - 98KC completed (12 KC difference)
3. Third 100 KC - 76KC claimed to be completed currently - 61.5KC done (13.5 KC difference)

The worker then went through some of the KC's I had flagged and disputed the vast majority of this.

The agreement we made, I felt, was on the basis of a death during the raid, there was no agreement in place to use the points obtained in the raid as a guideline. The only time points were referenced was after I had raised the concern. Bakkar advised me that they would consider a single death as a raid with 16K points or more, but this doesn't fall in line with the original agreement, and neither is the point guideline being used in the counted kc, since multiple instances where the points are lower than this 16k the KC has still counted. It's also not as straight forward as relying on points to show where a death occurred since this can vary depending on where the death occurs and the type of raid layout, so I had requested that they share evidence of the deaths that occurred during the raid - there is a plugin in runelite that will automatically take a screenshot when you die, however the worker confirmed that they do not use this, which I found unusual since our agreement was regarding deaths - so there was no way for them to show where deaths had taken place and where they hadn't. There have also been instances where the worker has posted the same screenshot of the same KC but has counted it as two separate kills.

I was hoping this could be resolved together, without the need for report on sythe, however after a long discussion we've been unable to make any headway together.

How they scammed (dispute): have not counted the KC done correctly, and when disputed have not been able to come to some kind of agreement, meet in the middle etc.
Other relevant trade screenshots:
https://i.imgur.com/Dq9v9Sr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ueJH73T.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/d0UadlG.jpg

(adding additional images shortly)

 

@Bakkar you will need to honor what has been stated in your ticket and what your own bot indicates (if worker dies once it will count as half a raid). The segments about a worker dying counting as a half a KC doesn't indicate anything in relation to the amount of points. Unless there were to be some additional agreement/segment not shown here that solely talks about the dying scenario/amount of points (before the job started), you will need to do as indicated above as that's what has been stated within the ticket.

Please work directly with @aPurity on resolving this as it appears more KC is owed. I'd also recommend that if you are going to utilize market practices such as having a death count in anyway that the workers have documentation of this via the runelite plugin.

 

@Bakkar you will need to honor what has been stated in your ticket and what your own bot indicates (if worker dies once it will count as half a raid). The segments about a worker dying counting as a half a KC doesn't indicate anything in relation to the amount of points. Unless there were to be some additional agreement/segment not shown here that solely talks about the dying scenario/amount of points (before the job started), you will need to do as indicated above as that's what has been stated within the ticket.

Please work directly with @aPurity on resolving this as it appears more KC is owed. I'd also recommend that if you are going to utilize market practices such as having a death count in anyway that the workers have documentation of this via the runelite plugin.

Working on a full reply

 

I would like to mention that this Term --> '' If worker dies once it will count as a half raid.'' is not the main argument/issue here

The issue is that @aPurity marks certain Kc's at Zero kc, while it clearly should be count as half raid
Suck as the following kills

Spoiler: Kc's that [USER=1329668]@aPurity[/USER] counted as Zero

There alot more kc's (There's alot more of kc's @aPurity did count as a Zero while it should be count as Half)

Also it was 3 orders not one 320 kc order
First order which is 110 kc started at 10/20/2023
Second order which is 110 kc order started at 11/01/2023
(Right after first and Second order you already confirmed that all good, then you left the server as you found better deal with some1 else)

Then you back for price match ended up placing 3rd order
Third order which is 800 kc (Still not completed)

Would like to mention again my main issue is that @aPurity marks alot of kc's as a zero most of it 18-23K pts
Meanwhile a death at olm (holding 30k+ pts results in 12K pts loss which lead us 18K pts remaining)

@aPurity, Also i would like to know based on what you been marking raids
as

1. deathless
2. 1 death
3. multiple deaths

and why do you mark multiple deaths as Zero Kc? We never put that as a term

 

Suck --> Such*

 

[aPurity]

To address your points, I would say the main issue/argument is definitely 'if worker dies once it will count as a half raid'.

In the screen shots you have shared, as I have mentioned in our direct contact, you have not shown me that a single death or multiple deaths have occurred when I have raised it with you as your worker does not track this which I don't feel is a good enough response if you are using deaths as a term for being a half KC or not. Additionally when I did raise this your worker stated that is only 200 points, or 500 points off of a full KC when he confirmed he did die and that it wasn't fair to count it as half kc since it was so close. The agreement was clear, I feel, you either die or you don't.

Yes, I don't dispute that it's placed within 3 orders currently, or at least 3 payments, since I did initially state that I would most likely be looking for more than the 110KC that was first purchased, however I don't believe I confirmed that the KC was all fine, it was more that I was trusting that you were doing it correctly and counting the deaths in line with what we agreed.

At no time did we make an agreement that points would be used as a guideline for if a death occurred or did not occur, the first time you mentioned this was when I raised the issue with you a couple of days ago.

In short, if you can show me where we agreed to points being used as a guideline when the order was created, I will delete this thread immediately, however we both know that conversation never happened, and the only mention of kc's being reduced was if you die once you count it as a half KC. I don't believe anything you have replied with is of any relevance to the issue.

 

@@aPurity, Discuss at ticket to put an end to it

 

@Kanye @aPurity, Worker should be starting again once he get info sent

 

@Kanye @aPurity, Worker should be starting again once he get info sent

What was the agreement reached?

 

Worker been told and agreed to work on the following
1- 9.5 KC the difference been requested from first order
2- 12 KC the difference been requested from second order
3- At 3rd order, Worker claims that 88 done out of 100
So will be 12 Kc left + the difference that @aPurity determines based on his measures that he been used to mark kc whether it's

1. Deathless raid
   
2. Single death raid
   
3. Multi death raid

The measures i been asking him to reveal (He never answered that question even though i did ask for it multiple times)

Apparently without revealing the measures being used, I'll have to blindly accept all his kc difference claims.

 

[aPurity]

Hi @Kanye - no agreement yet just an offer from @Bakkar

@Bakkar I find the screenshots you've posted rather disingenuous, as it has no context. This was a point you were still disputing the deaths or no deaths, so at that time saying X amount of points is 1 death and y Amount of points is a full KC was irrelevant, as points doesn't come in to it, as it was not in our agreement.

You've said you still don't want to use points as the metric, but clearly in the instance of a dispute using deaths as the metric is completely flawed, even if you use the plugin in runelite to auto screenshot when you die, it would still be difficult for me to determine if the raid was deathless or not just because a death in a cox raid the point deduction varies so drastically depending where you died, the layout of the raid etc. Deaths is too ambiguous.

Based on this, should you wish to proceed and honor our agreement, and continue with the remaining KC, and also to give the KC that was missed, that we DO determine the amount of points as the new metric, and no longer use deaths. It would be much easier for your worker to track, and also me and any of you future customers also.

 

Hi @Kanye - no agreement yet just an offer from @Bakkar

@Bakkar I find the screenshots you've posted rather disingenuous, as it has no context. This was a point you were still disputing the deaths or no deaths, so at that time saying X amount of points is 1 death and y Amount of points is a full KC was irrelevant, as points doesn't come in to it, as it was not in our agreement.

You've said you still don't want to use points as the metric, but clearly in the instance of a dispute using deaths as the metric is completely flawed, even if you use the plugin in runelite to auto screenshot when you die, it would still be difficult for me to determine if the raid was deathless or not just because a death in a cox raid the point deduction varies so drastically depending where you died, the layout of the raid etc. Deaths is too ambiguous.

Based on this, should you wish to proceed and honor our agreement, and continue with the remaining KC, and also to give the KC that was missed, that we DO determine the amount of points as the new metric, and no longer use deaths. It would be much easier for your worker to track, and also me and any of you future customers also.

I'm already offering to get the remaining kc done and the missed kc's for the three orders
There's not doubt cox terms will be changed to pts wise for any further orders, since it's more crystal clear for tracking progress (In general not just your orders)

 

[aPurity]

@Kanye - Bakkar has since offered to honor the KC that I had flagged as being a death, and we have now established a points metric moving forward as this is much easier to track for me and for the worker, and leaves no ambiguity on what was achieved or not.

With the new agreement in place, I'd consider the matter resolved - thank you for your assistance.

 

Thanks for resolving.