Resolved

[cooker22]

Scammer's profile link: ATW

Amount scammed: $420

Discord ID + Unique Discord ID: iatw (1070555366439518208)

Proof that it's their Discord: Screen capture - 7e6371eb3d9c17ddca1c11933897a55d - Gyazo

Explanation of the trade:
I was his proxy merchant who handled Venmo, CashApp and Zelle for him. Our process was very simple, I'd accept these payment methods for him and I would send him the amount minus a small fee in crypto.

How they scammed:
About a week ago, I received a charge back on Venmo for $420 from a customer of ATW. This person was a scammer and got his money back (through a charge back) and Venmo has put a $420 debt on my Venmo account (as a proxy merchant). I had already paid ATW the money in crypto and the scammer had already received his gold.

That money was not my money, it was ATW's but he is refusing to pay me the money that was scammed. My Venmo account has been locked and its unusable until I pay Venmo the debt. I have filed a counter dispute against this charge from Venmo but they told me it can take up to 70 days to resolve and I can't wait that long to use my Venmo account as it is a personal account that I use for many other things. The likelihood of getting my debt erased by Venmo is slim to none as ATW accidentally deleted all the evidence of the transaction between him and the scammer. Even if we did by some miracle win and my debt was removed, I would still send ATW back the money.

ATW's excuse for not paying me was that if he paid me back, he couldn't run his gold business anymore because he has little to no capital. He also said that I should just make a new Venmo account and ignore the other account with the debt. Obviously I cannot do that as the account with the debt is my personal Venmo account and has my bank info, card info, phone # and other sensitive information. Venmo will collect that debt eventually so I simply cannot ignore it. I have told him this and he still refuses.

It is not my responsibility to pay back this debt as the money was never mine to begin with and I was just a proxy for ATW. I will note too that ATW did agree to pay me back the money when I first told and showed him what happened (in the chat logs) but now he just flat out refuses and won't return my messages now after asking that he pay me back or that I would report him.

ATW is acting very unprofessional with all this and won't take responsibility for the money lost in the scam. All I do is take payments for him on these platforms, I should not be paying Venmo $420 and ATW doesn't lose a thing. I'm the one being punished here.

I would also like to note that ATW is not the only server I manage these payment methods for and I have never dealt with an issue like this before with the other people I work with. They also agreed that ATW is acting way out of line and should not be acting like this.

Other relevant trade screenshots:
Here is the chat logs on discord between me and ATW regarding this whole situation:
ATW is scamming me $420 - Album on Imgur

 

Was there any TOS/agreements made surrounding what would occur in cases of chargebacks? @cooker22 @ATW

@ATW Please also chime in here

 

[cooker22]

Was there any TOS/agreements made surrounding what would occur in cases of chargebacks? @cooker22 @ATW

@ATW Please also chime in here

No, and I also don't see how that would default to me being responsible for the loss. It was ATW's money and I already sent him the full amount in crypto.

 

i'm sorry for the delay in responding, my grandmother passed away 3 days ago, so i didn't see all of that and i wasn't able to respond to many messages i left all my work in the past days to one of my friends to respond to clients, etc

 

i'm sorry for the delay in responding, my grandmother passed away 3 days ago, so i didn't see all of that and i wasn't able to respond to many messages i left all my work in the past days to one of my friends to respond to clients, etc

Sorry to hear - please chime in here regarding the concerns OP mentioned.

Please also provide proof to support the payout in GP associated with this transaction that was disputed. Please remember to block out RSNs & sensitive information. You can utilize the report post feature to submit it there.

 

Scammer's profile link: ATW

Amount scammed: $420

Discord ID + Unique Discord ID: iatw (1070555366439518208)

Proof that it's their Discord: Screen capture - 7e6371eb3d9c17ddca1c11933897a55d - Gyazo

Explanation of the trade:
I was his proxy merchant who handled Venmo, CashApp and Zelle for him. Our process was very simple, I'd accept these payment methods for him and I would send him the amount minus a small fee in crypto.

How they scammed:
About a week ago, I received a charge back on Venmo for $420 from a customer of ATW. This person was a scammer and got his money back (through a charge back) and Venmo has put a $420 debt on my Venmo account (as a proxy merchant). I had already paid ATW the money in crypto and the scammer had already received his gold.

That money was not my money, it was ATW's but he is refusing to pay me the money that was scammed. My Venmo account has been locked and its unusable until I pay Venmo the debt. I have filed a counter dispute against this charge from Venmo but they told me it can take up to 70 days to resolve and I can't wait that long to use my Venmo account as it is a personal account that I use for many other things. The likelihood of getting my debt erased by Venmo is slim to none as ATW accidentally deleted all the evidence of the transaction between him and the scammer. Even if we did by some miracle win and my debt was removed, I would still send ATW back the money.

ATW's excuse for not paying me was that if he paid me back, he couldn't run his gold business anymore because he has little to no capital. He also said that I should just make a new Venmo account and ignore the other account with the debt. Obviously I cannot do that as the account with the debt is my personal Venmo account and has my bank info, card info, phone # and other sensitive information. Venmo will collect that debt eventually so I simply cannot ignore it. I have told him this and he still refuses.

It is not my responsibility to pay back this debt as the money was never mine to begin with and I was just a proxy for ATW. I will note too that ATW did agree to pay me back the money when I first told and showed him what happened (in the chat logs) but now he just flat out refuses and won't return my messages now after asking that he pay me back or that I would report him.

ATW is acting very unprofessional with all this and won't take responsibility for the money lost in the scam. All I do is take payments for him on these platforms, I should not be paying Venmo $420 and ATW doesn't lose a thing. I'm the one being punished here.

I would also like to note that ATW is not the only server I manage these payment methods for and I have never dealt with an issue like this before with the other people I work with. They also agreed that ATW is acting way out of line and should not be acting like this.

Other relevant trade screenshots:
Here is the chat logs on discord between me and ATW regarding this whole situation:
ATW is scamming me $420 - Album on Imgur

i want to mention a small thing at the beginning, which is that you knew when you started that there was a risk to your accounts in this business, as i did, i took the risk and made you receive the money because your friend who brought you to me previously disclaimed his responsibility for what would happen in the future, i no longer trust you. because of the way you spoke in the chat, and also because you said that what happened wasn't your responsibility at all, but by blocking the scammer you made it much easier for him to get the money back, by telling them that, he sent the money to the wrong person and he blocked me... so this is your fault too and now you hold me responsible for everything and say i scammed you!!!
Proof that he blocked him: https://i.imgur.com/4EwcwDX.png

you also lied here
you told me that you sent a message to Venmo support and they told you that it would take about 2 weeks, and now you say 70 days!!
Proof that he is lying: https://i.imgur.com/da5oGG6.png

i cannot send you any money, simply because as i mentioned above your friend who brought you to me cannot take responsibility for anything that will happen and i no longer trust you, so there is no guarantee for me that your account is closed yet and Venmo has not reopened it for you or that you will even pay me again if i paid you.

proof that his friend doesn't take responsibility for anything that happens
Screen capture - 35fe892e0b8f4eb1c8fbfa2a48c34d5d - Gyazo

 

Was there any TOS/agreements made surrounding what would occur in cases of chargebacks? @cooker22 @ATW

@ATW Please also chime in here

Nah, there is no TOS, and he hasn't mentioned anything to me previously about the possibility of something like this happening on Venmo, although he did mention that he already works on other servers...

 

Sorry to hear - please chime in here regarding the concerns OP mentioned.

Please also provide proof to support the payout in GP associated with this transaction that was disputed. Please remember to block out RSNs & sensitive information. You can utilize the report post feature to submit it there.

unfortunately, i banned the scammer at that time before i saved the ticket
there is only proof that i banned him https://i.imgur.com/3NaxpXI.png

 

[cooker22]

i want to mention a small thing at the beginning, which is that you knew when you started that there was a risk to your accounts in this business, as i did, i took the risk and made you receive the money because your friend who brought you to me previously disclaimed his responsibility for what would happen in the future, i no longer trust you. because of the way you spoke in the chat, and also because you said that what happened wasn't your responsibility at all, but by blocking the scammer you made it much easier for him to get the money back, by telling them that, he sent the money to the wrong person and he blocked me... so this is your fault too and now you hold me responsible for everything and say i scammed you!!!
Proof that he blocked him: https://i.imgur.com/4EwcwDX.png

you also lied here
you told me that you sent a message to Venmo support and they told you that it would take about 2 weeks, and now you say 70 days!!
Proof that he is lying: https://i.imgur.com/da5oGG6.png

i cannot send you any money, simply because as i mentioned above your friend who brought you to me cannot take responsibility for anything that will happen and i no longer trust you, so there is no guarantee for me that your account is closed yet and Venmo has not reopened it for you or that you will even pay me again if i paid you.

proof that his friend doesn't take responsibility for anything that happens
Screen capture - 35fe892e0b8f4eb1c8fbfa2a48c34d5d - Gyazo

The reason I blocked the scammer was because he kept requesting I send him money and spamming me. There was nothing wrong with blocking the account and that had nothing to do with him doing the charge back. He would of done the charge back anyways. You deleting all the evidence of the transaction made it way worse and basically guaranteed that we lose the case. Venmo has also requested that I send evidence to their dispute support email, which I don't have.

As for the ~70 days vs 2 weeks, I got a new email from Venmo a few days ago saying that it could take up to that long for the dispute to be closed.
imgur.com

The whole responsibility word salad you said about Beng makes no sense whatsoever. Venmo has already put an active debt on my account and it needs to be paid. You have the money that was scammed and I need it back, that's all there is to it.

 

I think what i mentioned above is clear
There is no guarantee that ill get my money back if your account is opened without paying any debt to venmo
And ill say it again, there is responsibility on you for what happened.

 

[cooker22]

I think what i mentioned above is clear
There is no guarantee that ill get my money back if your account is opened without paying any debt to venmo
And ill say it again, there is responsibility on you for what happened.

How am I responsible for what happened? The money I got from the scammer is in your pockets and now Venmo put a debt on my account that needs to be paid. Imagine someone sent me $100 for gold and I don't give you the money, that makes me a scammer. Now reverse it and your customer is charging back money that's not (and never was mine), since it's yours. You refuse to compensate the money that your customer is charging back. Your the one that sounds like a scammer. It does not matter if the dispute is ongoing. Venmo already gave me a debt and I am not responsible for paying it. It is my personal Venmo account and I need to use it for other things. Why should I pay the Venmo debt when it's not my money and you have the scammed money? The only responsibility I have is to make sure that you receive your money back if we win the dispute case (that way I can also keep operating because I work for others too). For now, you have to front the debt on my Venmo account. You saying you don't trust me anymore doesn't make any sense as I have done nothing to warrant losing trust as I handled your money for you (and I don't owe you anything) and I continue to handle money for others. You just do not want to pay the debt. You are putting all the responsibility on me and not taking any responsibility yourself. It's childish and unprofessional. If anything, you yourself have ruined your own credibility by not paying me back the money. No one is ever going to want to work with you if you act this way.

 

unfortunately, i banned the scammer at that time before i saved the ticket
there is only proof that i banned him https://i.imgur.com/3NaxpXI.png

Without documentation to support a legitimate trade this would make you liable as I'd not be able to tell if this chargeback is a legitimate one or not in order to determine who's responsible for what.

Typically in cases such as utilizing a third party for payment purposes there's also typically TOS that discusses scenarios of chargebacks/refunds. There's a reason people do not take certain payment methods @cooker22 & you're making money off each transaction, please note that if there were documentation to support a trade it likely would not have been 100% in your favor.

@ATW you will need to pay @cooker22 the amount owed given there's nothing to support a legitimate trade/transaction took place as you have no documentation of this. I'd also recommend that you record/screenshot GP sales in the future.

 

Without documentation to support a legitimate trade this would make you liable as I'd not be able to tell if this chargeback is a legitimate one or not in order to determine who's responsible for what.

Typically in cases such as utilizing a third party for payment purposes there's also typically TOS that discusses scenarios of chargebacks/refunds. There's a reason people do not take certain payment methods @cooker22 & you're making money off each transaction, please note that if there were documentation to support a trade it likely would not have been 100% in your favor.

@ATW you will need to pay @cooker22 the amount owed given there's nothing to support a legitimate trade/transaction took place as you have no documentation of this. I'd also recommend that you record/screenshot GP sales in the future.

I got that, the rest of the chat shows the discord name, uid and the full amount of gp, when i gave him the gp, then when he sent gift cards, also shows when i banned him
imgur.com


Proof that he sent me money that day https://i.imgur.com/zvaOISV.png
this also proves that there was a trade of the same amount mentioned in the scammer's chat

 

[cooker22]

Without documentation to support a legitimate trade this would make you liable as I'd not be able to tell if this chargeback is a legitimate one or not in order to determine who's responsible for what.

Typically in cases such as utilizing a third party for payment purposes there's also typically TOS that discusses scenarios of chargebacks/refunds. There's a reason people do not take certain payment methods @cooker22 & you're making money off each transaction, please note that if there were documentation to support a trade it likely would not have been 100% in your favor.

@ATW you will need to pay @cooker22 the amount owed given there's nothing to support a legitimate trade/transaction took place as you have no documentation of this. I'd also recommend that you record/screenshot GP sales in the future.

I took a 5% cut (+2.5% for tax to buy the BTC on CashApp so 7.5% total). So he would still need to send me $390 to make up his share of the transaction.

 

I got that, the rest of the chat shows the discord name, uid and the full amount of gp, when i gave him the gp, then when he sent gift cards, also shows when i banned him
imgur.com


Proof that he sent me money that day https://i.imgur.com/zvaOISV.png
this also proves that there was a trade of the same amount mentioned in the scammer's chat

Do you have any bot that would log any deleted messages? Unfortunately it's still difficult to fully grasp what occurred in the ticket as the messages are deleted when you banned him and as you stated earlier you have no proof of delivery.

 

[cooker22]

@Kanye ATW is purposefully ignoring the forum post and won't reply. He's been active on discord and Runestake and has turned off his "last seen" status. Not to mention he's auto bumping his post and he's not a $300 donor which is also against the rules. Can you please give the final verdict so we can be done with this?

 

@ATW has advised via discord that there's no additional documentation/proof he may have - you will need to reimburse @cooker22 as initially indicated. I've given you a precautionary DNT at this time as it does appear you've been actively bumping threads/online in which times I've asked for additional things.

 

@ATW has advised via discord that there's no additional documentation/proof he may have - you will need to reimburse @cooker22 as initially indicated. I've given you a precautionary DNT at this time as it does appear you've been actively bumping threads/online in which times I've asked for additional things.

I didn't ignore anything, as i explained to you on discord, i was waiting for a screenshot from someone for proof because he delivered gp to that scammer, but unfortunately i didn't get it

Well, i can pay $$ rn but want you to clarify this point for me, now he sent a request to venmo to reopen the account and still no response yet
what will happen if he wins the case, he won't need to pay the debt to venmo, he will get $$ from me and ill be the loser anyway?

I also want him to send a screen record with the date and time of the day he logs into his account to prove that the account is still unusable

 

[cooker22]

I didn't ignore anything, as i explained to you on discord, i was waiting for a screenshot from someone for proof because he delivered gp to that scammer, but unfortunately i didn't get it

Well, i can pay $$ rn but want you to clarify this point for me, now he sent a request to venmo to reopen the account and still no response yet
what will happen if he wins the case, he won't need to pay the debt to venmo, he will get $$ from me and ill be the loser anyway?

I also want him to send a screen record with the date and time of the day he logs into his account to prove that the account is still unusable

I already paid Venmo the debt from the case with my own money.
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

So my account is usable again. Just waiting on you to send the money.

 

I took a 5% cut (+2.5% for tax to buy the BTC on CashApp so 7.5% total). So he would still need to send me $390 to make up his share of the transaction.

@Kanye sent
LTC Transaction 6b23f747d132254043718d6a4fdad7270d49ae2a08f198aa94f2835276813746 | BlockCypher