[Resolved]

[ValidStore]

I hope I'm in the right place to place this. My goal is not to place any kind of punishment/restriction on @Drsalt . I'd just like to get a refund or help recovering my lost account.

I've purchased an "unregistered" Runescape account from @Drsalt , however as the account got locked (probably because of me logging in with another IP Address), I could not recover the account anymore since the e-mail address was already registered at Google/Gmail.

Sythe Name: @Drsalt
My unique Discord ID: 115489734435799043
Drsalt's unique Discord ID: 234076127071698944

Incident:
I was purchasing an "unregistered" Runescape account that could use "Humidify", I thought the requirements were Lunar Diplomacy, however it turned out to be Dream Mentor. However, that's not the incident here, as I agreed to take the account in the end to try another spell which was available on the account.

At first, I paid @Drsalt first and I received the account, nothing seems to be out of the ordinary. I was a bit busy with studying at the time so I left the account be, and activated Membership by purchasing a Bond later on. However the account got locked and there was an option to recover the account. Which I tried to do, I tried registering the e-mail which was supposedly not in use, as he advertised selling unregistered accounts. However, as it turned out the e-mail address was already registered and belonged to someone else (see screenshot)

I contacted @Drsalt to help me recover the Account as that option also exists, and with him having the most information about the account and the IP Address on which it was registered, it should be possible to recover. However, to my surprise @Drsalt did not wish to comply with my request at all. I suggested another account as replacement which truly didn't have an e-mail registered or a full refund for the account so we could both continue our journey.

However, as he suggested. I'd like to request the help of Sythe admins/moderators to see who is in the right in this particular situation.

What do I want to achieve with this?
To be fair, I can imagine it's an annoying situation on @Drsalt 's end too, as he created/botted an account and messed up with the unregistered e-mail part. However as I've purchased an account from him with the assurance of an unregistered e-mail and it still got locked away from me. I feel like my money is wasted now by a false promise.

I'd like to get my account recovered and compensated the lost member days in form of OSRS GP, a Bond or Membership code.
I'd like to receive a replacement account with Lunar Diplomacy unlocked, with an 100% unregistered e-mail which doesn't result in me getting locked out again with no ability to unlock the account. Along with a bond / 14+ day membership code

Or a full refund totaling 60M OSRS GP.

Link to all proof of our conversation & the incident along with the vouch I've left @Drsalt
imgur.com

If I should include the e-mail of the account without censoring it, as proof. I'd like to keep it private to a Moderator/Admin, as everyone can see these threads.

For any other questions, you can always reach me on Discord or of course just reply to this thread.

 

Hello,

Regardless of how the account got locked or how you lost access, sellers must maintain recovery responsibility for at least a month after the sale:

Anyone who wishes to sell an account must maintain "recovery responsibility" (they must refund their buyer if the account is recovered or becomes locked and they are unable to unlock it) for at least a month after the sale. If you are an account seller and you do not specifically mention your recovery responsibility in your Terms of Service, by default you have recovery responsibility for two years.

@Drsalt I get the frustration but you'll have to help get the account unlocked/recovered and if you're unable to do so, issue a refund.

 

[Drsalt]

Hello,

Regardless of how the account got locked or how you lost access, sellers must maintain recovery responsibility for at least a month after the sale:


@Drsalt I get the frustration but you'll have to help get the account unlocked/recovered and if you're unable to do so, issue a refund.

Thank you for responding and understanding the frustration. I also appreciate them addressing this in a civil manner, it was the only solution I could suggest when we clearly disagreed @ValidStore. As I told the buyer, they were welcome to file a dispute through Sythe and I would comply with your decision @Zora . I want to do this on the up and up. However, there are some things I take issue with that I would like to have addressed.

1) I dispute the claim of false advertisement. The account was checked by me prior to selling and the buyer checked the account and vouched to it. As also evidenced with the below statements, the account was sold as advertised and issues that occurred after the sale were seemingly the fault of the buyer. This is important to me as it speaks to my credibility. I am fully aware I can make mistakes and I am all for taking responsibility for what I do or don't do. I have issued refunds and replacements before without hesitation. This is why I double check all accounts AND ask buyers to check them to make sure everything is as described (as seen in the screenshot conversation). If this is simply an issue with not stating my TOS more clearly, and I am still held responsible, then so be it... however I disagree with and dispute the false advertisement claim.

2) The only evidence provided by the buyer is a screen shot of them attempting to create a GOOGLE email. This is distinctly NOT involving the Jagex registered email for the account or anything involving the RuneScape account at all. At the minimum this is a misunderstanding on the buyers' side of what registered/unregistered means. Seeing as the buyer is not new to RuneScape or sythe, I dont think this is the case.

3) The account is not locked as claimed. As such, it doesn't seem to fall under the "recovery responsibility" section of the stated policy (perhaps I am misreading it?). The buyer was able to change the Password for the account. This requires a registered email due to email verification from Jagex of the change. This also disputes the false advertisement claim as they would not have been able to change the Password if it was previously registered. As you can see, the account does not say "we believe it is stolen" which it would if the account was locked, or "account has been disabled" which it would be if it was banned, but "invalid credentials" indicating a change in password. If the account was previously registered, I would still have access with the original login since the buyer would not have been able to change it.

4) As seen in their screenshot, the buyer admitted they messed up the registration themselves. They also claimed the account was previously registered AND that they are not receiving the email from Jagex to the registered email. This is contradictory. As such, what exactly is the buyers responsibility in this case? Why am I being held accountable for what seems to be their mistake? I understand there is risk to buyers if the seller attempts a recovery after the account is sold. I understand the policies are focused at reducing the possibility of scammers/hackers/recoveries etc... however if the buyer is clearly the one that lost the account due to their own negligence, why would the seller be held accountable for that? This is completely backwards.

5) Everything about this claim is either conflicting or plain incorrect and has been pretty fishy to me. This is why I have so far refused a refund or replacement. I also don't do recoveries for accounts, that is the whole point of selling them unregistered, so the buyer is able to register them to handle the recoveries. It is very unlikely I will be able to do a successful recovery. As such, if I issue a refund, I will then be out the payment and the account over something that I did not do. At which point, I am the one being taken advantage of rather than them taking responsibility for what is now their account. More importantly, my reputation takes a hit which is more valuable to me. While I can understand the frustration and I can sympathize as I have lost accounts in the past, I don't take responsibility for things that arnt me.

6) Based on the above, it seems equally (or more) possible to me they are simply wanting a refund while also keeping the account, or at least not taking responsibility for their mistake. I am not implying malice, simply negligence with handling the account. They already made one mistake with purchasing the account when it clearly did not have the quests/skills unlocked they thought it had.

7) For my own clarity, you stated the "recovery responsibility" policy covers a month after the sale of the account for locks and recoveries etc, however sellers across all forums have TOS where they do not take responsibility for these issues. Are they then in clear violation of sythe policy? Or do their own TOS take precedence since the buyer is agreeing to it? I'm not sure how you deal with that... I would at least like a dm for an explanation, so I am clear going forward.


If you still determine I am responsible due to Sythe policies, I will comply with remediating it even if I take the hit. I will consider this a lesson learned and will be more clear with TOS and responsibilities. This is much more about principle for me than the actual account or gp, those are negligible. If I am still responsible, I would also request the below:

-The full login credentials as they are currently.
-A few days to attempt the recovery due to Jagex response time.
-If unsuccessful, I will issue a full refund.
-I would like it determined this was not false advertisement, but rather unclear TOS.

Thank you and I await your response.

 

@Drsalt Alright, I'll reply to your arguments/concerns one by one.

1) I dispute the claim of false advertisement.

I don't believe this dispute is about false advertisement. I think both of you have a different understanding of what 'unregistered' means. You appear to believe it's when no e-mail has been registered to the Runescape account. ValidStore believes it has to be a fake e-mail or that the e-mail account must not be taken either. ValidStore doesn't dispute the fact there was no e-mail attached to the Runescape account, but they dispute the fact that the gmail used as username is not available to create.
This reply applies to point 2 as well.

3) The account is not locked as claimed.

I have verified that the Runescape account is locked. ValidStore did register an e-mail and they did change the password. The account got locked later. They have the current password which they can give you to help unlock it.

4) As seen in their screenshot, the buyer admitted they messed up the registration themselves.

I believe this to be a misunderstanding. It's the g-mail that could not be created.

also don't do recoveries for accounts, that is the whole point of selling them unregistered, so the buyer is able to register them to handle the recoveries.

It's near impossible for a buyer to recover an account just because they set the first e-mail. You need a lot more recovery information such as creation and membership details.

7) For my own clarity, you stated the "recovery responsibility" policy covers a month after the sale of the account for locks and recoveries etc, however sellers across all forums have TOS where they do not take responsibility for these issues.

Sellers are free to alter the recovery liability period in their ToS. However, on Sythe we require sellers to have recovery responsibility for at least a month. When this is not discussed prior to the sale or mentioned in the ToS (which has to be agreed upon by the buyer) it's 2 years by default. ToS can not be used to lower this month responsibility.

-The full login credentials as they are currently.
-A few days to attempt the recovery due to Jagex response time.
-If unsuccessful, I will issue a full refund.
-I would like it determined this was not false advertisement, but rather unclear TOS.

@ValidStore please send Drsalt the current login info to help them unlock the account.
You're free to attempt to unlock it first. I hope you'll be successful.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please let me know.

 

[Drsalt]

@Zora Thank you for the prompt response, this was helpful and cleared things up for me. I will keep this in mind going forward. We will get this resolved quickly, and I hope that puts me back in good standing.

@ValidStore I will reach out on discord and we can resolve this.

 

@Zora Thank you for the prompt response, this was helpful and cleared things up for me. I will keep this in mind going forward. We will get this resolved quickly, and I hope that puts me back in good standing.

@ValidStore I will reach out on discord and we can resolve this.

Hello, has there been any update?

 

[ValidStore]

Hello, has there been any update?

As far as I've heard has the first appeal been denied. He's sent in a second one, otherwise I will get a full refund from Dr Salt

 

[Drsalt]

Hello, has there been any update?

Refund has been issued.

 

Thank you for solving this. I hope the information I've provided in my other posts will help you prevent issues like these in the future.

I have requested for your DNT to be removed.