[Resolved]

[siabada]

Scammer's profile link: Ahmadht1122
Vouches if they were exchanged: Screenshot - 40fc8a49d1b3ed8165285f739fb46dbf - Gyazo
Original selling thread: none, hje was selling through discord
Proof of payment: Screenshot - 9c15d865ad67d041b21fa389aa455868 - Gyazo
Proof of contacting seller:
Screenshot - 6fa2cb2bd900bb2337db4c1c2639774e - Gyazo
Screenshot - 6e2307c45e80e56958ee301ab8c6b8fa - Gyazo
Discord ID + Unique Discord ID: 668000673836695562 , Orgasms#6448
Login username of the account: Vampire11122
Terms of Service that was agreed to: -
Other relevant trade screenshots: -

Hello, so i ve bought DS2 account from Orgasms. I have paid 130$ via eth and eveyrything went smooth. Problems started like 1 week ago, when somebody logged into account and took it wealth ( they didnt change password nor anything, they logged using google linked account- didnt know you could do that.)
I run my own investigation , but due to lack proof i decided to forget about it. Until now. Today morning i got notification that someone was trying to change my account password 2 times, if you any mod wanna see emails im free to send them PM

at about 9:00 when i got to work i tried to login, and was unable to. Weird thing i am making appeals/ change password requests and i dont get emails from jagex anymore.

Things got more interesting when it turned out that Orgasm said President was the original owner of the account, which he is not - as it turned out later. The original owner is a person called Kanash - on discord, I got a contact from the president to him.
Screenshot - 3103c1f7251c728d2e582ae957b99bc4 - Gyazo - here is Orgasm saying he bought it from President.
Which he didnt! President was only MM of this trade:

Screenshot - e34820ed77c8913a050aaa2e7b90cbc0 - Gyazo


So to sum it up:
1) Some1 logged into account and took like 100M, i gave up on it, cuz no proof
2) Today i received 2 requests to change password, as it turns out he managed somehow to lock and change PW, so i lost like 100M of gear again + 50M loot ( Vorkath bot ) + 130$ worth of account.

People who were included in this thread:
Ahmadht1122 aka Orgasms - Ahmadht1122
President - the MM of trade / he is just here to proof that he wasnt the one who sold acc to him so he lied to me - President
Kanash ( as far as i know OO of acc) - i don't know who is he on sythe.

Just to be clear, i ve bought multiple accounts from President,K A L A, Morita, and never had any problems, im running vorkath farm and the last thing i want to deal with is someone playing games with account i bought.

EDIT: Me talking to kanash "OO" to recover - unfortunately no reset email is coming to me:
Screenshot - aedcec95b904f719e28fe5be6080537a - Gyazo

Edit2:
Whole convo with Ahmed/Orgasms
Screenshot - a77544b007c7b3d7bdc4572f5c39cd0f - Gyazo
Screenshot - 4a1abaa7c9720310ded920cb8d6d12a6 - Gyazo

DISCORD GIF:
https://i.imgur.com/nNQXORZ.gif

ADDITIONAL INFO, bot log, exact time bot was unable to log into account - reset password requests were from about 4:00
Screenshot - 522df6b564622b15ebe0a0bd1d44e046 - Gyazo


Thank you, im sorry for my bad english
Sorry for taking ur time.
Siabada

 

[President]

Hi,

Since I'm mentioned in this report I'd like to post things from my side so that whoever moderates this report has a better picture of what's going on.

So far, I do not disagree with all the factual points stated by Siabada. I will draw the events from my perspective in chronological order.

-Kanash approached me, telling me he wished to sell his account. He was quitting the game as it didn't bring him any pleasure. I promised to help him out and find a buyer for him.
-I found Ahmadt, I explicitly told Ahmadt that a friend of mine was selling an account and whether or not he was interested in buying it. All parties were very clear on my role in this trade. See the screenshots below. Both parties agreed to the sale. The parties lived in different timezones (Redacted) and took a bit to respond sometimes so we agreed that I would hold on to the account while Ahmadt paid me, I would give the account to Ahmadt and when he'd give me green lights, I'd pay Kanash. This actualized.

https://ibb.co/F78qx3v
https://ibb.co/LZxnjqW

(Stan Mash is Kanash's alt)
https://ibb.co/12YdqVR
https://ibb.co/bBT7QhK

-During the weeks that Ahmadt was in possession of the account, no troubles were reported. After some botting setbacks, Ahmadt asked me if I wanted to buy the account for 130$. I declined. Later Siabada told me that Ahmadt sold him this account. Siabada was under the impression that I was the OO during this sale.
-Few weeks later Siabada reported being hacked through google auth and having his gear removed. Siabada reported finding a google auth linked to the account, which he removed. I paid him a loan to get back on track.
-A few weeks later Siabada mentions that he is hacked again, this time, he does not have access to the account, because the password was (and still is) changed.

 

[MrAshBrown]

Hi,

I am the OO of the account known as Stan Marsh and Kanash from Discord.

Having only interacted with President and Siabada, I'd like to present the situation from my view:

1. I reached out to President to know my options of selling my account as I did not enjoy playing the game around 16 Feb as presented in screenshots supplied earlier, and after discussions, President advised he can MM the deal if the buyer wants to buy the account;
2. After discussions, price was agreed upon. I provided the account log-in details and initiated an account email switch. Subsequently, I was paid in Crypto on 17 Feb;
3. I have not had any interactions with the account or the new owner of the account;
4. Sibada reached out to me on 29th March enquiring of any google account I have linked to the account in question. I informed them such linkage / authentication was never done by me. I was informed there was an account breach with in-game assets/funds stolen. As this was out of my scope, I was not able to provide any solution;
5. Sibada reached out to me today requesting to unlock the account and subsequently informed me there was a recovery request. As I was made aware of the parties involved from (4) that Sibada is the new owner, I have sent a recovery request as expected from Sibada and am pending Jagex response

I'll keep the parties informed of any positive updates as I get them from Jagex. Ahmadht may be able to shed more light.

Cheers

 

[siabada]

Ingame username was changed -

Screenshot - f524d71ad02e4317ae1f9b4d6cce7e71 - Gyazo

 

[Ahmadht1122]

President pmed me saying his friend is selling an account , usually i dont buy from randoms but president is trusted so i bought the account since any problems will happen then he can talk to his friend , then later i didnt want the account anymore and sold to this dude. in that picture i said i bought the account from him it doesnt say his the OO , accounts can go from 1 person to another.


"Things got more interesting when it turned out that Orgasm said President was the original owner of the account, which he is not - as it turned out later. The original owner is a person called Kanash - on discord, I got a contact from the president to him.
Screenshot - 3103c1f7251c728d2e582ae957b99bc4 - Gyazo - here is Orgasm saying he bought it from President.
Which he didnt! President was only MM of this trade:"
its not an MM , it was a sale , vouches were exchanged too as account selling


i can see the OO is here and his the only one who can do things that happened to you

i sell accs since 2017 and sold more than 150b 100% profit , i dont need to steal your 30$ or do linked shit that i dont even know how to do lmao

 

[President]

1. The core of this report is that you misled the buyer by implying that I am the original owner, while you knew that I wasn't.

"3. You must clearly state if you are the original owner or not before trading. Users are free to ask who the original owner is before trading."

2. Furthermore, you did not agree to any ToS, which means that you are responsible for the duration of two years.

These are the two points you need to rebuttle @Ahmadht1122.

"Things got more interesting when it turned out that Orgasm said President was the original owner of the account, which he is not - as it turned out later. The original owner is a person called Kanash - on discord, I got a contact from the president to him.
Screenshot - 3103c1f7251c728d2e582ae957b99bc4 - Gyazo - here is Orgasm saying he bought it from President.
Which he didnt! President was only MM of this trade:"
its not an MM , it was a sale , vouches were exchanged too as account selling

The point of my abstract classification in this transaction of "whether I can be labeled as an MM or not", is not relevant to this report since the claim is not against me, if it was, I would have paid the creditor back. Anyway, since I'm a sleep-deprived legal nerd, I'll respond to it.

I didn't know this until today, but there is actually a definition of MM on Sythe. It's a fairly broad one, so it's simple to fall within its scope.

Sythe definition of a middleman:

"Middlemen are users who agree to hold the goods involved in both the buyer and seller's agreement, and redistribute it after the agreement has been confirmed."

1. This definition doesn't mention anything about vouches.
2. Going by the definition: after the agreement was confirmed (through me from both sides), I held the goods of both parties and redistributed them, after which both of you vouched for me - confirming that the redistribution was a success. Thus, I fall within the scope of the definition of middleman defined on Sythe.
3. Your vouch-point is not relevant, but also partially false. https://www.sythe.org/goto/post?id=58027526#post-58027526
4. https://ibb.co/8jRz6sy --> here you refrain from making contact with the OO when offered: your choice and you have this right. And even if you have no contact with the seller, it still doesn't contradict the definition of what falls under - as it's no middleman requirement (see definition). But even if it was, you always had the means and could always have reached out to the OO from your own energy.
5. Legally speaking, for me to have sold the account to you, I'd have needed ownership of the account. I never bought the account from Kanash. @kanash can confirm this and this is visible in our chat logs. So ownership never transferred to me. Therefore, I could have never transferred ownership to you, because my power of disposal was missing, because I had no ownership. Yet you gained ownership of the account, which means that you legally could have never bought it from me, but only from Kanash. Concluding that my role in this transaction is trivial. If you do claim that this point is false (that I had ownership of the account), the burden of proof is on you.
6. The transaction happened outside of my server, without ToS being agreed upon, which is very uncommon for account-selling done by a provider. This is even more presumptive evidence that there was no contractual agreement between the two of us, outside of my role of being a broker in this trade.

 

[siabada]

Ok so in my mind, ahmed sold me account which we can't recover, so he is responsible for that ( OO said recovery was denied). Can we please have mod for ruling here?

But even if we did recover, this account is Worth nothing, 2 times wealth have been stolen + password and name changed).

I would like to ask for full refund either in osrs or eth/btc

 

@Ahmadht1122 considering there was no ToS agreed upon purchase, you are liable for the account you sold to @siabada , please them a refund.
You may of course in return report @MrAshBrown as they are liable for the account sold to you. If you believe President holds any liability in that trade, you are free to mention that in the report as well.

If you wish to do so, please make a separate report.

 

[siabada]

@Ahmadht1122 considering there was no ToS agreed upon purchase, you are liable for the account you sold to @siabada , please them a refund.
You may of course in return report @MrAshBrown as they are liable for the account sold to you. If you believe President holds any liability in that trade, you are free to mention that in the report as well.

If you wish to do so, please make a separate report.

Thank you, he is responsible for account only or is he responsible for account +wealth

 

Thank you, he is responsible for account only or is he responsible for account +wealth

Unless you can proof that he is the one who took the gold, he is only responsible to refund the original purchase price of the account.

 

[siabada]

Unless you can proof that he is the one who took the gold, he is only responsible to refund the original purchase price of the account.

Ok im unable to do that. Just account then. Thank you

 

[Ahmadht1122]

cba to type more for burger money
ill pm this dude and send him the money

 

[siabada]

Got refund, its resolved from my side, thank you all

 

Thank you for resolving this.
@Ahmadht1122 one last question, did you tell @siabada prior to the trade that you were not the Original Owner? Or did you tell this only after the trade?

 

[siabada]

He did tell me hes not oo before trade

 

Alright, thank you.
@Ahmadht1122 I advise you to be less vague when disclosing who the Original Owner is. One could argue that you implied President is the Original Owner as you mentioned you purchased it from him. I could also see your reasoning as you traded with President directly, but you must clearly state if you are the original owner or not before trading.

Thank you for resolving this.