resolved

[Bummo477]

Profile: LordZuku

Problem:
He sell rsgp to me and say he only calculate price of btc after 1 confirmation. I think this is bad and should not be like this for few reason:

1. He say sometime 1 confirm take 1 week or month. His words. Ok so how much do I send for transaction? No one can preduct price movement on bitcoin so only logical way is price AT TIME OF SEND. Even if double spend is issue only need wait to see if is double spent. Exchange rate should not be continued to be calculated.

2. Double spend not only after 1 confirm. This why coinbase need 6 and coinpayment need 3. All have different strategies to combat this.

If we deal his way, then in real life you pay groceries for 10$ and cashier say "ok now price of bread went up before I put money in my pocket so you need give more". Then when you complain he can say "oh no you did not say when we calculate rate of bread sorry is ur fault"???

He also say in all other places where btc invovled is calculated on AFTER 1 CONFIRM. How is this true when after pay coinbase transaction or online buying they always calculate when sent, not when confirm? I know no online shop where they ask you send payment and they only calculate price of btc after confirmations.

So in end, I have pay extra for less because waiting 1 confirm price btc drop.

picture relevant:
imgur.com
imgur.com

 

So just for a bit of clarification, we had agreed upon a price of .44/m for 3b working out to $1320

Screenshot - aff63067f61caf8263886af97d83ab7c - Gyazo
neither me or @Bummo477 agreed upon using any kind of value for the btc, so i had assumed we would use the standard of value when confirmed. rather then the value when sent.

I informed @Bummo477 that it will be short due to btc dropping before a confirmation, and unprompted he sent another 0.001 BTC


I didnt have access to the funds until the total btc was confirmed(1) & was worth $1282 (0.0441) I offered him a refund of his original BTC or to continue the transaction at $1282. After a bit of discussion @Bummo477 let me make the decision, so I decided to go through with the gold sale @ 1282 for 3b.


so thats pretty much all that happened.

My logic for why trades should default to value when confirmed instead of over value when sent is because of the following:

a scammer could effectively get a nearly free short on bitcoin by sending a 1sat/b purchase of gp

there are 3 main possibility's that can happen

1:btc goes up (or gold goes down)
The scammer could double spend the btc, allowing him to profit on any btc price increases
2:btc stays the same and gold stays the same
the scammer would take a loss on the gold flippers margins
3:btc goes down (or gold goes up)
the scammer could demand to use the value when sent rates effectively allowing free insurance if btc goes down

 

[Bummo477]

Go on Alch.com

Go on any vendor taking btc.

NO ONE CALCULATE PRICE OF BTC AFTER CONFIRMATIONS.

How this is normal when it is a lie?

 

my understanding is there is a distinct difference, we never agreed upon a btc value before you sent it. The agreement was the value of $1320 in btc for 3b gp, whereas if i were to say 0.0431 btc for 3b that would be entirely different

 

also the original amount you sent (0.0431) was wrong due to google's rounding, nothing to do with btc dropping

 

[Bummo477]

If go by "your logic" then how much would buyer need to send? No one can predict how much btc send for any transaction if go by this logic. This not make sense man.

 

that's exactly how exchanges work? lets say you need $1k using your same argument you cant predict how much you have to transfer into your exchange wallet.
If btc's fluctuations are an for you there are multiple other ways to have a much more stable priced crypto trading, namely usdt


Edit: we are just going around in circles now, im going to leave it at that to make the mods jobs easier. My first post had the events that occurred and the rest is mostly arguing about using value when confirmed vs value when sent when neither person agreed to it.

for future reference I have added the following to my btc message to avoid confusion in the future
Screenshot - d82f68219d490feb01ee81d8ecaad27c - Gyazo​

 

[Bummo477]

You have write price in USD, not in BTC. You not have say "selling 07 for 0.000015btc/m". I have send you your USD rate at time.

How exchanges work is irrelevant to conversation here.

This laughable how you say is normal that buyer and seller both cannot predict price so send random amount of btc and wait for God do his work.

I am now wait for mod/admin reply.

 

[Bummo477]

Now you have lie too? You never say only take value when 1 confirm

Here is real conversation
imgur.com

 

Hello @Bummo477 and @LordZuku,

Was the notion of valuing the BTC after one confirm mentioned before or after the transaction was sent?

 

[Bummo477]

Value of btc after one confirm not mentioned.

Only after i send btc he say this. Am know is I assume btc value calculate when send but all website and all shops do this. I deal many many people always calculate when send, i have not think this was problem.

If this seller is correct in calculate value on confirm then every single time make transaction need confirm btc value is after 1 confirm or 2 confirm or 3 confirm?

I have not see this type of disclaimer on any vendor thread.

 

Value of btc after one confirm not mentioned.

Only after i send btc he say this. Am know is I assume btc value calculate when send but all website and all shops do this. I deal many many people always calculate when send, i have not think this was problem.

If this seller is correct in calculate value on confirm then every single time make transaction need confirm btc value is after 1 confirm or 2 confirm or 3 confirm?

I have not see this type of disclaimer on any vendor thread.

Could you send me screenshots of the chat to corroborate this please.

 

[Bummo477]

imgur.com
imgur.com
imgur.com
imgur.com
imgur.com
imgur.com

and he also post fake screenshot say value after 1 confirm but is not true, I can show admin all chat discord he never say this

he fake screenshot in this thread

 

@LordZuku if you wish to value a BTC transaction at the price it is at when a confirmation is reached, you must state this to your customer before the BTC is sent to you, not after.

In light of this, please deliver @Bummo477 the remaining gold you owe him based on the value of the BTC at the time it was sent.

 

Could you send me screenshots of the chat to corroborate this please.

im fine with the resolution, I already offered to pay @Bummo477 the difference before he made the report.

Screenshot - 478c5c54cac54ffd3adf46410b4bb5e5 - Gyazo

this was our entire conversation before he sent the btc. All I did was give him my address and say I wanted $1320 in btc.

I came back a minute late to him telling me how much btc it will be and him sending without any kind of confirmation from me
Screenshot - 76ac4806cc9222af724ab80ee45467c7 - Gyazo

by the time I had checked the unconfirmed balance it was already short quite a bit due to him using googles converter that tends to round alot.

Also just so we are clear, that new message I posted was for future messages, I did not tell bumo in advance that I would value it at confirms because I thought it was standard practice in the rs trading community just like it is in other forums to avoid the free shorting issue. Generally the only places that dont use that standard use bitpay which charges them a processing fee above the market rate to account for this (and profit)

 

refunded

 

[Bummo477]

Lordzuku have refund me difference in07 gold thx

 

Thanks for resolving this.

@LordZuku please ensure you specify your terms before a trade starts in the future.