I've been thinking about this for about 30minutes... And I think you're right, you win.
Free will
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I've been thinking about this for about 30minutes... And I think you're right, you win.
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Lol, didn't I get you started on this?
And as far as I'm concerned, technically, free-will doesn't exist, our decisions/actions are based on our brain[genes] and our surroundings.:huh:
I
Ivie
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But unthinking particles can be interpreted differently, then acted upon, which is where free choice comes in. I can continue typing this message if I wanted to, but I'm opting out of it for no particular reason. Free choice can't be limited by indifferent particles when the indifferent particles are flowing through the complex and unique mind of a human.
xxthebeastxx said:
You may have - I don't remember.
Ivie said:
You have the illusion of choice. Ultimately, the choice to either continue typing, or stop, is controlled by your mind, the sum of your brain. The brain is composed of particles, each with a defined velocity and position.
crapkiller
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If free will doesn't exist, what guides us? Surely, you dont believe some sort of god does?
Besides, i AM my brain?
Besides, i AM my brain?
Determinism. Your actions are naturally predetermined.
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i do not believe in a modern society that this is true. People say they can choose what they want to do, but ultimately most people will not commit criminal acts as the rules and social stigmas that judge and regulate consequences for comitting these acts deter people form comitting them.
Forgive me if I trail off/don't make complete sense/can't stop my fingers from going faster than my brain/ or cant stop my brain from going faster than my fingers....
"Free" in this context means to be given, made, or done of one's own accord; voluntary or spontaneous.
and "Will" is the mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action.
Therefore by definition we can gather "Freewill" to be governed by the "self." Self explanatory, yes. But one must familiarize oneself with the views of both the Determinists and those that believe Free Will. Determinists (correct me if I'm wrong) believe everyones future is determined by past events, experiences, natural laws, shaped views etc. That progress across a timeline. Similiar to Fatalism. Fatalistic and Deterministic views dispute Free Will.
I disagree with Determinisms and absolutely agree we can exercise free will at any given time,at this moment, one could either continue reading this post if one wanted, or cease. Under this assertion, being that one could do either, the fact of how the history of the world will continue to unfold is not currently Determined one way or the other. We simply Exercised our Free Will in Choosing.
Relying on imagination of moral, values and beliefs to construct our Freedom of Action and the understanding of our impressions of the world, our inner selves(self awareness) as well as sensory perceptions to guide our Freedom of Thoughts. I believe Free Will is properly possible when using our Freedom of Thought and Freedom of Action in unison.
"Free" in this context means to be given, made, or done of one's own accord; voluntary or spontaneous.
and "Will" is the mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action.
Therefore by definition we can gather "Freewill" to be governed by the "self." Self explanatory, yes. But one must familiarize oneself with the views of both the Determinists and those that believe Free Will. Determinists (correct me if I'm wrong) believe everyones future is determined by past events, experiences, natural laws, shaped views etc. That progress across a timeline. Similiar to Fatalism. Fatalistic and Deterministic views dispute Free Will.
I disagree with Determinisms and absolutely agree we can exercise free will at any given time,at this moment, one could either continue reading this post if one wanted, or cease. Under this assertion, being that one could do either, the fact of how the history of the world will continue to unfold is not currently Determined one way or the other. We simply Exercised our Free Will in Choosing.
Relying on imagination of moral, values and beliefs to construct our Freedom of Action and the understanding of our impressions of the world, our inner selves(self awareness) as well as sensory perceptions to guide our Freedom of Thoughts. I believe Free Will is properly possible when using our Freedom of Thought and Freedom of Action in unison.
Persia_Ugly said:
What part of the human brain that is not composed of particles is capable of making choices?
As much as I want to answer the question it is in conflict with itself and does not make alot of sense to me.
The human brains "Particles?" I will refer to them as neurons and axons. There is other matter there as well. To answer the question...None. If it doesn't have matter it necessarily doesn't exist. (A soul can not be measured or even proven.) The brain is a mass of matter and regulates all human activity conscious or unconscious. That includes "Choices." If this doesn't answer your question please elaborate more.
If you are asking in a physiological term: The brain is divided into three parts, one part is the Forebrain: The Prosencephalon. This includes the Cerebral Cortex, which plays a key role in memory, attention, perceptual awareness, thought, language, and consciousness. I would say those weight heavily on our choices. The Brain is complicated, but it works together to form our motor movement and conscious/unconscious thought. It has "Particles" of course, but what in this world does not?
To simplify: A Brain is made of "Particles", the Brain controls human activity thus it controls our "choices."
That does answer my question. You agree that the brain is made of particles (as all matter is). All particles have a determined position and velocity, and their future outcome is set. The future patterns of the human brain are set. The future actions of a human being are set.
This is like saying dreams aren't real. Just because there's no PROOF that they are, yet almost everyone experiences them. We have free will to do what we want. I could be a race car driver one day then a bum the next if I wanted. It's all about what YOU want.
Shall SKill said:
And what provides the basis for such a choice in humans?
Our free will. (Love your debates, you should be a lawyer)
Shall SKill said:
Biologically, what provides the basis for choice in humans? Free will is not it, as it cannot be seen or measured.
And cheers.
Biologically it's our brains. And as you stated earlier how they are already assigned to carry out a role etc. We can change it.
Make a thread on dreams. ^^
Make a thread on dreams. ^^
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Hard to form an opinion, not very solid evidence to base opinions off of
Interesting concept, like everything has a destiny but instead of it being the "supernatural" excuse, it's simply because every particle we are made up of has a set goal and therefore creates set decisions, so destiny is the result of physical simplicity. Reminds me of the theory that there is no such thing as a "random number", because any number you choose has some sort of bias or reason, whether sub-conscious or not, in your head. Definitely makes you think
edit: Even computer programs cannot technically conjure a random number
edit2: Ahh, this concept is plaguing my mind! It's like the number 23, lol. Just imagine if in the future scientists could map the course of quadrillions of particles and predict the future or future actions of a person! Or maybe that's all god is... or maybe we are all inside an amoeba from some superworld and so on an so on ahhhhhhhhhhh
*system overload*
Interesting concept, like everything has a destiny but instead of it being the "supernatural" excuse, it's simply because every particle we are made up of has a set goal and therefore creates set decisions, so destiny is the result of physical simplicity. Reminds me of the theory that there is no such thing as a "random number", because any number you choose has some sort of bias or reason, whether sub-conscious or not, in your head. Definitely makes you think
edit: Even computer programs cannot technically conjure a random number
edit2: Ahh, this concept is plaguing my mind! It's like the number 23, lol. Just imagine if in the future scientists could map the course of quadrillions of particles and predict the future or future actions of a person! Or maybe that's all god is... or maybe we are all inside an amoeba from some superworld and so on an so on ahhhhhhhhhhh
*system overload*
We can change our lives cause that's what it says in the Bible. 
EDIT: I agree on the fact that there are no random numbers.
EDIT: I agree on the fact that there are no random numbers.
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We can change our lives cause that's what it says in the Bible.
EDIT: I agree on the fact that there are no random numbers.
If you agree that there is no such thing as a random number, doesn't that prove that there is no free will? If every single sub-atomic reaction was broken down into simple numbers, couldn't information of future actions be derived? To be honest i don't know, this subject is very interesting to me though.
Shall SKill said:
We are our brains. Brains can change themselves, but this decision is predetermined as the brain is made only of particles.
Shall SKill said:
The Bible is a book, not an axiom.
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