3 Suggestions which MAY decrease scammers..

[Daxel]

1.

I know this is ironic because I myself started out gaining vouches by doing free skilling but now it's come to the point where people will abuse this, and get 15-20 vouches and scam people, If this has been suggested before I'm sorry, but in my eyes it's an amazing idea, free skilling/any service for that matter, ( possibly with the exception of MMing ) should not be allowed as people can EASILY rack up 5 vouches a day, lets say they did this for 5 days, got 20 vouches, donated some RSGP to make them seem " trustworthy " and then scam, just like that this would in turn decrease the amount of vouches people would gain making them not something that is mandatory every single trade.

If I go down the FIRST page of the skilling service thread I can easily spot 6-8 threads offering FREE skilling. Not only does this decrease the market for legitimate service providers it also puts the buyer in risk of getting his things dropped etc.

You may say, but if they charge him (X) amount of GP he would just run away with it, now this is where point (3) comes into place.

2. Do not allow vouches for upgrades.

I find this extremely stupid, anyone can go out, buy 50 gamecards sell them with some profit, so then they have 100m+ profit, they purchase a $25 donor rank or above, and scam an excessive amount of RSGP proven here by Rice Farmer; http://www.sythe.org/report-scammer-archive/1514517-scammer-rice-farmer.html

In this situation he's donated $100 got himself 20~ vouches for selling gamecards in the process of 29 days, and now he's scammed once again, if vouches for upgrades were not allowed this would not have happened, as I'm sure with alot of other Sythe members. If vouches for GFX aren't allowed then why should upgrades be allowed?

3. " Vouch Mods "

This would maybe be abit harder to get my point across.

A Vouch Mod, his/hers job is to go through peoples vouches and delete, yes delete any vouches they feel are not up to mark.

For example I'm currently watching a user with a $100 rank and I'm pretty sure he'll scam shortly once given the chance, he has 2 maybe 3 vouches that I would consider half decent.

The job would be no easy matter I understand that, but it would better the skilling service community and many others.

Thanks for your time.

~Daxel.

 

[Raptor lx]

Vouches for upgrades are a legitimate trading business, and removing the ability to vouch for these would mean that new people looking to sell upgrades would struggle, because they would be unable to show evidence of completed trades. Free skilling can be used in the wrong way, yes, but so can anything. A person could sell small amounts of gold at a cheap price several times to rack up vouches, should we outlaw this? A vouch mod is pointless as there are already rules in place for fake vouching, and if you feel any vouch is not genuine, report it or PM a moderator. No support on any of these.

 

[nodnarbusn]

These are outrageous suggestions. Ill go through them by your numbers.

1. People dont want to do business with someone with absolutely no vouches, often times free skilling or questing helps people build trust as they could have done something malicious with the accounts and did not (thus justifying a vouch). That and they are providing a service, if this wasnt allowed people who are just starting out would be shit out of luck and wouldnt ever get their foot in the door only deterring legitimate newcomers from joining the site.

2. You suggesting people cant vouch for upgrades is outright ludicrous. Of course they can go buy some game cards and sell for a small profit, its called flipping and its what the majority of active market sythe users do whether it be with upgrades, gp or other things. Buy low and sell for a bit more is how shit works, if you are saying it shouldnt be vouched for because of the ease of how its done then that could be said for the rest of transactions that occur on sythe.

3. Without going through EVERY SINGLE VOUCH a moderator wouldnt know whether a vouch was "up to mark". A moderator deleting peoples vouches on intuition/suspicion alone without proof would just cause a shit storm. Report suspicious vouches, if someone is trading with people and they have a bunch of small time vouches the burden of taking that into consideration is on the person trading them. Fake vouching is already (usually) caught pretty quick by those active in the market, if it isnt caught pretty quickly by others it has certainly been looked at and didnt arouse suspicion, a mod could and would do nothing about it because there was no way of knowing whether it were legit.

All that needs to be done is people reading the stickies and practicing safer trading, thats all that can be done. Theres nothing thats going to decrease the amount of scammers because people with ill will are always going to be around. All we can do is assist people in recognizing them before they fall victim.

SMH

 

[Deathsnova]

Silly ideas. You do a trade, it's successful, you exchange vouches. Are you also saying we should eliminate all trades for vouches under $25 because thats not a lot of money and it doesn't show any trustworthiness?

 

[mage3158]

I'm inclined to agree with the upgrades suggestion considering how risk free that market is already, and really would be risk prevention.

Upgrades are hardly vouch worthy, but I doubt it'll change.

 

[blazee]

I understand where you are coming from with the upgrade vouches and free/cheap skilling vouches. The problem is, most members jump to conclusions and automatically assume 50 vouches is better than a few vouches. Don't look at the quantity of vouches, look at the quality. If users stopped jumping to conclusions, scams would occur less often.

 

[Daxel]

Vouches for upgrades are a legitimate trading business, and removing the ability to vouch for these would mean that new people looking to sell upgrades would struggle, because they would be unable to show evidence of completed trades. Free skilling can be used in the wrong way, yes, but so can anything. A person could sell small amounts of gold at a cheap price several times to rack up vouches, should we outlaw this? A vouch mod is pointless as there are already rules in place for fake vouching, and if you feel any vouch is not genuine, report it or PM a moderator. No support on any of these.

Okay, yes your right, you give someone a ugrade you recieve a vouch, people would struggle yes, but the fact is, it'd show determination and it'd prove if people would illegitimately like to stay on Sythe with some grinding to it, well I didn't know that people could report vouches, I was un-aware of that, thank you for letting me know

These are outrageous suggestions. Ill go through them by your numbers.

1. People dont want to do business with someone with absolutely no vouches, often times free skilling or questing helps people build trust as they could have done something malicious with the accounts and did not (thus justifying a vouch). That and they are providing a service, if this wasnt allowed people who are just starting out would be shit out of luck and wouldnt ever get their foot in the door only deterring legitimate newcomers from joining the site.

2. You suggesting people cant vouch for upgrades is outright ludicrous. Of course they can go buy some game cards and sell for a small profit, its called flipping and its what the majority of active market sythe users do whether it be with upgrades, gp or other things. Buy low and sell for a bit more is how shit works, if you are saying it shouldnt be vouched for because of the ease of how its done then that could be said for the rest of transactions that occur on sythe.

3. Without going through EVERY SINGLE VOUCH a moderator wouldnt know whether a vouch was "up to mark". A moderator deleting peoples vouches on intuition/suspicion alone without proof would just cause a shit storm. Report suspicious vouches, if someone is trading with people and they have a bunch of small time vouches the burden of taking that into consideration is on the person trading them. Fake vouching is already (usually) caught pretty quick by those active in the market, if it isnt caught pretty quickly by others it has certainly been looked at and didnt arouse suspicion, a mod could and would do nothing about it because there was no way of knowing whether it were legit.

All that needs to be done is people reading the stickies and practicing safer trading, thats all that can be done. Theres nothing thats going to decrease the amount of scammers because people with ill will are always going to be around. All we can do is assist people in recognizing them before they fall victim.

SMH

1)
You're right, absolutely people don't want to do trades with people without vouches but would this not make it harder for ban evaders as the likes of Rice Farmer, just as an example he claims to have made 25B, 25B.. That's over $10K if sold extremely cheap, the point is people are doing this and scamming people out of their money and steps need to be put in place to stop this happening, and of course they'd get their foot in the door, because to me if someone is legitimately trying their hardest to build up vouches that to me shows someone who would indeed be a asset to the site, not someone who would run off with 100M. Given the chance.

2)
Yeah it's flipping I understand that but I don't think you see the point I'm trying to put across it's too easy to gain vouches and be seen as someone who is trusted when their only intention is to scam, yes scammers will find a way still to bypass anything but steps need to be put in place to minimize the chance of vaders/scammers entering Sythe because at the end of the day it gives the site a bad reputation.

3)
I know it's an extremely far fetched idea I do, but I thought it'd be a good idea obviously my thoughts haven't been as good as I originally thought.

Silly ideas. You do a trade, it's successful, you exchange vouches. Are you also saying we should eliminate all trades for vouches under $25 because thats not a lot of money and it doesn't show any trustworthiness?

I do a trade with xDeply ( most recent used GFX artist ) but those vouches aren't allowed? It's a trade, it went successfully, but the vouch isn't allowed? That ruled should be implemented into the upgrade market.

Also where in the OP did I say $25 trades shouldn't show trustworthiness?

I'm inclined to agree with the upgrades suggestion considering how risk free that market is already, and really would be risk prevention.

Upgrades are hardly vouch worthy, but I doubt it'll change.

I'll talk that as a support?

I find it near stupidity I could go out spend £200, get £250 back, donate $25, scam $100, it literally is that easy to do.

I understand where you are coming from with the upgrade vouches and free/cheap skilling vouches. The problem is, most members jump to conclusions and automatically assume 50 vouches is better than a few vouches. Don't look at the quantity of vouches, look at the quality. If users stopped jumping to conclusions, scams would occur less often.

I understand where your coming from man
But to the average sythe user they see someone with 50 vouches, a nice shiny $100 rank and they automatically think, hey I could trust this guy with some money, agreed however, people need to stop jumping to conclusions that members are trustworthy.

 

[static]

I agree with 2, but not with the other, seeing as if you start out as a brand new member on sythe, no money etc. it's impossible to start with paid services, it's hard enough starting up doing free services, but I agree with the others

 

[nodnarbusn]

None of this is going to happen.

I'm inclined to agree with the upgrades suggestion considering how risk free that market is already, and really would be risk prevention.

Upgrades are hardly vouch worthy, but I doubt it'll change.

A trades a trade, if the service and upgrade are good i see no issue with a vouch.

I understand where you are coming from with the upgrade vouches and free/cheap skilling vouches. The problem is, most members jump to conclusions and automatically assume 50 vouches is better than a few vouches. Don't look at the quantity of vouches, look at the quality. If users stopped jumping to conclusions, scams would occur less often.

Agreed, quality of vouches is a big thing. BUT if people practiced safer trading they would know that for them selves, i dont think that because some trades are less significant that other trades that they should be robbed of their validity vouch wise, once again its up the person they are trading to weigh their vouches validity for the type of trade they are doing (ex a person with 10-20 upgrade sales and vouches all of sudden buying 1b should be dealt with cautiously because he is making a different sort of trade, a safe trader would use a MM in such a situation). (most of this was directed at OP not you blazze)

I don't think you see the point I'm trying to put across it's too easy to gain vouches and be seen as someone who is trusted when their only intention is to scam

No, i dont think you understand. All you are pointing out is how easy it is to be legitimate for a while then scamming. There have been quite a few cases where people trusted with bills end up scamming a hundred something mill, there have been cases where people donate one week and scam less than they donated the next! The fact is nothing you have suggested is going to stop anything but new traders going to be able to break into the market at all. Vouches are vouches whether they are big trades or small trades, denying the validity of small trades being vouch worthy is preposterous.

Once again, this could all be sorted out by reading the stickies in place and practicing safe trading. As said above, with vouches its not quantity its quality (and even then they dont really mean all that much as people scam regardless). The burden of judging vouches is on you (the trader).

tl;dr its not sythes (or staffs) fault that people often see a lot off petty vouches as a sign of trust.

 

[its_shizam]

So now that you've admitted to using free skilling to gain vouches and your comfortable with your vouches at the moment you think it should be banned, kind Of hypocritical if you ask me, why have something sopped that you have done yourself? Not everyone can afford to buy and sell mile or buy and sell accounts and its not like its easy doing business on sythe, there's about a million people doing quests and skilling. People do whatever they can to gain a reputation.


And as far as rice farmer, that's irrelevant. It doesn't matter what your post count is, how much you donate, who your friends are what color your underwear is. ANYONE is capable of scamming. You can't say that just because its easy to gain vouches via free skilling that every Tom dick and rice farmer will scam. This is an utterly pointless suggestion, I don't understand your line of sight considering you said this was how you gained vouches.

A sale is a sale, if I sell you a bag of crap on sythe I would expect a vouch for it. Upgrades are no different.

Delete all of your vouches that were gained via skilling or selling gamecards/upgrades and then repost this thread. So delete everyone of your vouches, most of them are bullshit.

 

[tMoon]

This covers basically your first two points:
It's up to the individual to look at the quality and not the quantity of vouches.

Sythe has more of a laissez-faire approach in the market, and restricting people of offering services won't happen. It's pointless, if someone doesn't want to pay someone who's trusted to do whatever job they need done, then it's their own problem. They're cheap, not my fault.
Not counting, you can't simply have this blanket of free services over skilling. This would have to expand to questing, and every other aspect of service.

No one is making anyone go first in trades, or not use a trust MM. Not getting scammed is VERY easy, if people took into account that they shouldn't simply trust someone and actually do research on who they're buying/selling from/to.

As for the moderator aspect of it, no.
A vouch is a vouch. It's up to whoever doing business with the individual to decide whether they should trust that individual.

PS. You donated $25, and got vouches from skilling for free; this means you're about to scam, correct? Well, staff better go ahead and place a precautionary ban!

 

[KnowP]

Censoring stuff like this is what pisses everybody off. I'm not fond of the idea, however I think having a "vouches" mod would better the community. Self-control would have to be the main characteristic of said user because he'd be dealing with a lot of hate/spam towards deleted vouches, and he'd have to remain professional at all times. So say two new users vouched each other for a $1000 trade, is this an example of what you think a vouches mod would be dealing with?

 

[Ziggily]

I agree with those that have posted above. Its the quality of the vouches that matter. Not the quantity.

As far as upgrades go, why shouldn't they count towards vouches. Yeah they may be small, but it is still a trade. I tend to look for the larger card purchases/sales to gauge trust. [$10, $25 and Premier Club]

 

[Daxel]

PS. You donated $25, and got vouches from skilling for free; this means you're about to scam, correct? Well, staff better go ahead and place a precautionary ban!

Knew someone would say it

Hey, I'm 100% happy by deleting all the vouches I got for free services, and leave the ones that are paid, I'd still have a confortable 10+ vouches. Doesn't bother me.

Point I'm trying to put across is theres to many easy ways to gain vouches easily.

Delete all of your vouches that were gained via skilling or selling gamecards/upgrades and then repost this thread. So delete everyone of your vouches, most of them are bullshit.

Don't suppose your a little mad?

I've never sold a game card, 5~ of my vouches are from free services only.

I'll delete them if this goes into action. Happily.

 

[tMoon]

Knew someone would say it

Hey, I'm 100% happy by deleting all the vouches I got for free services, and leave the ones that are paid, I'd still have a confortable 10+ vouches. Doesn't bother me.

Point I'm trying to put across is theres to many easy ways to gain vouches easily.

Thanks for answering everything else I wrote, and not just the sarcastic piece.

Sweet, there are easy way to gain vouches; people can use them if they want to. It's up to the individual conducting the trade to decide whether they are "worthwhile" vouches, or not; not yours (nor anyone else.)

 

[its_shizam]

im not mad haha, you posted a suggestion that you yourself havent followed so why should anyone else have to?

 

yeh I think Upgrades vouches should be prohibitet, vouching for free skilling is fine as long as you're sythe member for X months. About donations there were suggestions about allowing people to donate via PP, I've even suggested to PP donationas be available for donors $50 or $100 or higher

 

[Daxel]

yeh I think Upgrades vouches should be prohibitet, vouching for free skilling is fine as long as you're sythe member for X months. About donations there were suggestions about allowing people to donate via PP, I've even suggested to PP donationas be available for donors $50 or $100 or higher

Thank you, someone who see's sense, it's exatly the same with gfx, theres a trade, it goes well but with gfx the vouches aren't allowed?

im not mad haha, you posted a suggestion that you yourself havent followed so why should anyone else have to?

I've already said i'd HAPPILY follow through if others did the same.

 

[Dave]

Tmoe's post sums it up rather nicely. For the first two, it's the quality of the vouches, not the quantity.

As for that last one, mods go through vouch threads and check for fake vouches. No one is going be assigned the "Vouch Mod" position to go and look for vouches that are "up to par."

Sorry, no harsh feelings but this won't happen.