Moral values that are put into you that you should not destory something so pretty, the essence of life forming and even if it is formed by an act suchg as rape the baby that will come out is innocent
Abortion
- Thread starter Shredderbeam
- Start date
Moral values that are put into you that you should not destory something so pretty, the essence of life forming and even if it is formed by an act suchg as rape the baby that will come out is innocent
If left alone, there would be a child, but it is not yet a child.
I understand that it is not a child yet, but even the cells themselve are alive so if it has not grown to a complex for it is still a life.
So if a person is in a comma they should be killed?
If a person is brain dead they should be killed?
Yet you are arguing as why abortion is immoral. I contend that, regardless of its morality, a woman has the right to privacy of her own body.
And people lose there right to privacy over there body whevber they do something wrong and go to jail. I look woman body is also a vessel and that is the purpose, and if I was going to kill someone to better my life I would be looked at as immoral and a killer, but a woman is looked at a idol for protecting her rights as a human? IT is incorrect both ways and there should be a double standard for a different situation...
Not really. My body is my own, if I don't want something growing in it, why should I be forced to let it grow there?
Because when you thought of killing someone you were consider a criminal who is irrational and not sane, so you lost you privilege to think for yourself...
Also when you said something like it was a beast and care nothing for it even though your body gave it the DNA to the something your refering to.
Shredderbeam said:
The mother chose to get pregnant- as in as a result of premarital sex, or not using proper protection, or perhaps being unable top control herself. Fact is she has to deal with the consequences- abortion is the cowardice way out. You may argue about rape, yet what percentage are this in compared to the total abortions? Morevoer, there is such a thing as the morning after pill.
EDIT: LOL seems im not the only 1 thinking among these lines
the_wippit
Guru
becuase u were the one that put it theyre by having unsafe sex you whore! (jk lol)....alright, ur a 100% right a human has the right to do whatever they want with themselves, but what about the baby? he dioesnt even get the right to have a chance? the baby is another human? u say its just an unconsience lump of cells correct? *pulls out large metal bar and knocks out shredderbeam* now what are you??????? *pours acid and slowly dissolves shredderbeam casue hes an unconsince lump of cells*
I would be an unconscious human being that, if given a few minutes, would regain consciousness. There's a bit of a difference.
The baby does not even has the capacity for consciousness during the first few months. Can you really claim it to be just as valuable as a human life?
jaamal said:
I'd prefer to think of it as choosing what to do with my own body.
eXact said:
Oh, so speaks the expert! Don't you know that there are other ways to get pregnant?
Also, are you a woman? Do you have any idea of the powerful emotions that pregnancy brings about, or are you just shooting off your patriarchal
mouth, as so many men seem to do?
The point I am making is that the Supreme Court has recognized that ALL people have the right to control WHATEVER goes on in their body, regardless of the morality of such things. Do you understand this? Whether you like it or not, people are inherently free, free from oppression, free to do what they want, and free from having to get approval before dealing with something so personal as their own pregnancy. You see, you have no idea of the complex emotional forces that you are dealing with here, and I would advise everybody to stop with the "omg she got herself pregnant stupid bitch" that we've got going on.
But it isn't your still not thinking a rational way and do not deserve to think for youself. And I could beat someone with a bat to death and say I was just exercising... It is fake and incorrect either and no matter how you word it.
Name one that is involuntary besides rape?
Well no man will probably ever know the emotion that a woman goes through during birth, so if I was a woman that gave birth to a child that was a result of a rape my opinion would be valued more, NO so that is irrelevant.
The court room can also take away the people's privacy when they consider them a threat to life.
So whats the differnce to your brain dead friend then a baby that will become active?
shredderbeam said:
Namely? If there are any others except for consensual and not consensual i'd like to know. Also, ur trying to use emotional blackmail to dismiss my point- no i dont know what a women feels, yet do you knwo how it would feel to actual kill a human being? Answer im guessing is no- so i guess we're both shooting our "patriarchal mouths"
In referal to "free from oppression" i've said it before and i'll say it again, we DO NOT live in a completely free society. As much as you would like to believe it, we do not have the right to do whatever pleases us. A marriage is considered personal, so if the husband beats the wife, society interferes. Your issue is that you do not see the unborn child as human.
the_wippit
Guru
how can u say that it doesnt have the capacity for consciousness when it becomes conscious in 3 months????????? and yes it does have the same value of human life becuase it is becoming human life! alright when u were only a small lump of cells (as you say) no worth, what if u were aborted? ur mother would have destroyed all that u could have been? how do u justify that? when instead u can just put a baby up for adoption, it even costs less!!!
I think it's perfectly rational. I choose what I do with my own body. It's as simple as that.
jaamal said:
That would be a pretty major one.
jaamal said:
It actually is relevant. It's a woman's body, you know, not a man's.
jaamal said:
They can, but precedence shows that people have a right to abort something growing in their body.
jaamal said:
There really isn't a difference. If my friend is truly brain dead, then there's no point in keeping him or her alive.
eXact said:
You really only listed consensual ways, completely ignoring the non-consensual, as if to make it seem that it's the woman's fault all the time.
My girlfriend and I were considering having an abortion about a year ago. We made the decision not to have one, but I'd still say that that comes fairly close to having a realistic idea of what it means to kill.
eXact said:
We try to find the balance. Obviously, complete freedom would make us miserable. Are we entitled to it? Yes, but society has chosen not to accept it.
Abortion destroys a potential life, while spousal abuse injures a fully sentient person. I can see your point, but there is a bit of a difference.
Actually, my issue is that I don't believe that a woman should, once pregnant, be forced to carry out the child to term. A matter as personal as that should be left to the discretions of the woman, and possibly, her partner. You'll find that the courts have agreed with me.
the_wippit said:
It will gain the capacity for consciousness, but it doesn't have it yet.
It has the EXACT SAME VALUE? So, in a case where one must live, and the other must die, whom would you choose? The mother, or the fetus?
What if I was? Then I never would have existed, and I wouldn't care.
You can't always put a baby up for adoption, you know. Even if you could, that's not the issue. It's just the idea that the government can force somebody to complete their pregnancy.
He thinks that that the cost is the emitional problem, and the hormon levels increases which rises stress, that is the only reason why they expierence this is there own body. We can not be blamed for this.
How does killing a soon to be conscious mind justify not going through emotional hardships? Since I am sure that after killing it you will go through emotional stress as well.
And the only differnce between you knocked out on the floor and the soon to be life is when it will become conscious.
My only point is that pregnancy is a private issue, as has been determined by the courts, and that the decision ultimately rests with the mother.
Lol since when is rape consensual?
If, like u argue, its a womens freedom, should a spouse have any say in the matter? (Im playing devils advocate)
Do u regret that decision? My point is this: if abortion is legalised, the mothers may be pressured (whether form a boyfriend who deosnt want a kid, or by the parents, or by her friends) into getting it aborted- its the easier way out, and then some years later regret the decision. Moreover abortion is not 100% secure- it has lead to deaths of both the mother and baby and in other cases infertility on part of the mother.
I do agree with you that a women should have control over her life, i just dont agree with how much.
<srry for late post--- stupid wirelss -.- >
Not when it harms others, it is more complex.
And if I gave birth would I get to critize your opinion and make my thghts more valuable. And due to the mental instability that women go through while her body is going through this make her opinion void do to this instability.
Maybe so, but the court rooms can go either way if brought back up.
What if he has the chance to come back at full ability and isn't brain dead does he deserve to live?
You say it gave you a very close idea of what it means to kill, but you think of it as a life anymore, after you decided to have the baby?
What kind of sense does that make. you clearly believed that your child should live, but others shouldn't?
Due to people's lack of concern for other we do need complete freedoms, we need more rules, boundaries, and more punishments. This make people think more of why thinks are the way they are, also of the consquences that can come into place if doing these wrong things.
The courts are all mixed up, the descison is left upto the mother and mothers as it is there bodies? Bull, women/mothers are believed the have stronger bond with their children then fathers, that is the reason why woman also get custody and this is a bull shit double standard that is wrong, and is going by gender and nothing else. Men should have a say as well and that is why being a man should making my descision and opinion void.
But, it will gain it and it will be lifeit has also started the process to becoming life so it is progressig forward. So it will be life.
I would choose the fetus, my life partner has had a chance at life and any loving mother of father would die for their child, wouldn't you?
So the governement can throw you in cell, make you spread you but cheeks , tell you where to walk, eat and more, but making life is considered the worst of all of these and is outlawed. Think about everything else that shouldn't be outlawed that is.
What is considered privte anymore?
The fact that it is the man's body, because prostitution is outlawed any many states and that is the woman's body as well.
Should there be a prochoice law for this as well?
Thats euthanasia and a TOTALLY different ballgame...lol... theirs enough diversity in terms of abortion, no need to complicate it further
But in most cases both could live...
He said brain dead, I was just stating how the cells are becoming more complex and will become active, he is comparing the fetus to a brain dead person has low if any chances of reurn to full ability. And abortion is a complex subject and I will make it make it even more complex, why not? Am I hurting your head?
Last he ask a what if scenerio and I told him the answer on who I would choose.