Abortion

[jaamal]

Aperantly the 5 years were not enough, and you didnt know much about her afterall.

I knew alot, but like many people they can do things that are out of their character.

It does not mean that the people arent thinking of having or dont want a girl/boyfriend, but they logically realise that it does no good for them but instead could start conflicts, which is why they chose not to have one.

So what your saying is that you are scared of starting conflict? Wow this is the one of the first post I have seen where you said, death and conflict isn't the answer.

Its only in the west that teens have lovers, in many other countries around the globe, your parents and her parents must be present in the house for you to talk to the girl you are interested in.

Do you really mean to tell me that you believe that no other country has people under 18 having sex, while in India, girls are being forced to become whores at the age of 13 or lower.

Having lovers is something that belongs to the west which really isnt a big part of the world, so I think you were talking about the western society afterall.

The west is not the only country without arrange marriage. Britian, Germany, and France don't have many arranged marriages anymore. Arranged and consanguineous marriages are usaully based on religions and cultures and there are still families in America that still have these marriages. Has nothing to do with the west.

Also love is a human emotion not just a western emotion, so where did I say western Society again?

 

[Krypton6]

The situation with the van happens to some people, you know..

Yes and you would always know who that has hapend to, since kidnapping is in most cases something that the family informs the police about.

You just seem determined to place some form of blame on everybody, no matter how shifty.

No im not blaming every person, but only those who have taken the small or big risks of being raped.

Yes, in the West, we realize that love is something that cannot be "arranged", that people have rights beyond what their parents want, and that people are free.

And why are we talking about arranged marriages?
For you and her parents to be present does in no way mean that it is an arranged marriage.

While the parents are down stairs or in another room talking about the familys history and past, the woman and the man would be talking about each other. That is in no way an arranged marriage.

So what your saying is that you are scared of starting conflict? Wow this is the one of the first post I have seen where you said, death and conflict isn't the answer.

By conflict I mean creating problems with you and some one else in real life.
Who the hell would not want avoid personal problems in their life?
All love outside of marriage is not something I would ever start an conflict for or die for, or even put my self in danger for.

Do you really mean to tell me that you believe that no other country has people under 18 having sex, while in India, girls are being forced to become whores at the age of 13 or lower.

Ofcourse there is people having sex under the age of 18 all over the world, but fact is that, in the west that is chosen by one, but in the rest of the world its chosen for you (not by parents). As you said your self, they are forced to do that after having being kidnapped and taken your rights away.

The west is not the only country without arrange marriage. Britian, Germany, and France don't have many arranged marriages anymore. Arranged and consanguineous marriages are usaully based on religions and cultures and there are still families in America that still have these marriages. Has nothing to do with the west.

Why the hell are we talking about arranged marriages!
What I said was not arranged marriage!
Your parents and her parents being present in the same house does not make it arranged in anyway.
While your parents and her parents are downstairs talking about the history of the family, the 2 individuals are talking about each other and then decide wether they are interested.

Also love is a human emotion not just a western emotion, so where did I say western Society again?

"Love is an human emotion not just a western"

No what a surprise! Ofcourse love is a human emotion, but being together outside of marriage is a western thing, and could create problems in your life which is apparently what hapend to you.

 

[jaamal]

And why are we talking about arranged marriages?
For you and her parents to be present does in no way mean that it is an arranged marriage.

While the parents are down stairs or in another room talking about the familys history and past, the woman and the man would be talking about each other. That is in no way an arranged marriage.

I had out parents meet. We weren't always with them, but they have met before numerous times and it didn't help. And whats the point of bringing your parents along i they won't help with the relationship... Just sit downstairs?

By conflict I mean creating problems with you and some one else in real life.
Who the hell would not want avoid personal problems in their life?
All love outside of marriage is not something I would ever start an conflict for or die for, or even put my self in danger for.

But, if you are making a well thought out decision then wouldn't you want to assure that know the person well by dating hem before getting married. Isn't that worth fighting for? To fight someone who you love, but aren't married to.

Ofcourse there is people having sex under the age of 18 all over the world, but fact is that, in the west that is chosen by one, but in the rest of the world its chosen for you (not by parents). As you said your self, they are forced to do that after having being kidnapped and taken your rights away.

Bull shit, Africa teens have sex with out marriage, Britian, France, Germany and China. And they do it by option. Not just a western quality.

"Love is an human emotion not just a western"

No what a surprise! Ofcourse love is a human emotion, but being together outside of marriage is a western thing, and could create problems in your life which is apparently what hapend to you.

Dating before marriage is not only a western thing. I can once again name more countries, and I would have married a few of m girlfriends, but our parents complicated the relationship. And we can't get married with-out there consent untill 18 anyway. So our parents have to be involved.

 

[Scream me a lovesong]

Abortion should be legalized. If you get raped and get pregnant... Why should it COMPLETELY ruin your life with a baby you didnt want

 

[the_wippit]

abortion should be legal, no questions asked.

this is a section where you are supposed to debate your intulectual views, not "it should be legal end of story" please redirect yourself to the spam section. anyways shredder it says in luke that "and she conceived a son" so at the very moment of conception it was a son.

 

[Veni]

It should be the mothers choice, as the baby isn't really even alive yet it's just a bunch of cells that could go towards Stem-cell research which would help find cures for cancer.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I hereby bring this thread back from the depths of the archives, due to its controversial nature, and it's ability to provoke discussion.

 

[isosceles]

Alright, then I shall restart the discussion by stating my point of view.

I believe abortion is "wrong."

When two people choose to take part in a reproductive act they are voluntarily choosing the option of pregnancy. If pregnancy occurs, I don't believe that anyone has the right to terminate the new life.

If pregnancy could magically or randomly occur, then women might have some claim to abortion. People are always advocating "the right to choose."

Yes, there is a right to choose. If you don't want to be pregnant, don't perform the very act which causes pregnancy! This seems to be a pretty clear right to choose.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I don't think that anybody has the right to force somebody to carry the child to term. Do they put you at gunpoint, and forbid you from going outside until you give birth?

 

[isosceles]

I don't think that anybody has the right to force somebody to carry the child to term. Do they put you at gunpoint, and forbid you from going outside until you give birth?

This is a choice that people make themselves. Sex is the very act of reproduction. Everyone knows that. It's not like the government comes in and implants a baby into the womb. This is mere cause and effect.

If people do not wish for the effect, do not cause it!

 

[Shredderbeam]

This is a choice that people make themselves. Sex is the very act of reproduction. Everyone knows that. It's not like the government comes in and implants a baby into the womb. This is mere cause and effect.

If people do not wish for the effect, do not cause it!

What gives the government the moral right to keep a woman pregnant? Why do they have the privilege of deciding whether or not people can change their mind over a 9-month time period?

 

[Billyy]

Alright, none of you may agree with me but here's my stand on Abortion:

If the woman is in her first trimester as in, the first 3 months of her pregnancy, I feel it is okay for a woman to have an abortion.

If the woman is in her second or third trimester, 6-9 months, then it is NOT okay for this baby to be aborted. It is too far along and now is starting to actually look like a human being.

Although, even though those are my honest opinions, if you have a teenager, worried about her pregnancy, about telling her parents, about getting kicked out of school, getting behind in school, I can see where the abortion would be appropriate.

 

[isosceles]

What gives the government the moral right to keep a woman pregnant? Why do they have the privilege of deciding whether or not people can change their mind over a 9-month time period?

As I have been saying, this is a choice that the woman knowingly makes. After this point, the creation of another life has occurred, and why should the woman have the moral right to decide to end it?

Why can't the woman decide to end it 10 months later? What's the difference?


If someone chooses pregnancy, then that person knowingly decides to take on the massive responsibility that obviously comes with it.


Sigh... I know your arguments... I know where you are trying to take this. Ah, well. Let it come.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Alright, none of you may agree with me but here's my stand on Abortion:

If the woman is in her first trimester as in, the first 3 months of her pregnancy, I feel it is okay for a woman to have an abortion.

If the woman is in her second or third trimester, 6-9 months, then it is NOT okay for this baby to be aborted. It is too far along and now is starting to actually look like a human being.

Although, even though those are my honest opinions, if you have a teenager, worried about her pregnancy, about telling her parents, about getting kicked out of school, getting behind in school, I can see where the abortion would be appropriate.

Why should I be morally concerned about an abortion occurring in the second or third trimester?

 

[Billyy]

Why should I be morally concerned about an abortion occurring in the second or third trimester?

The baby is actually starting to come together, body parts are now forming, and the brain is forming, it's like murdering a small child. The reason why in the first trimester it's not like murdering a small child because:

It hasn't started to form organs or parts of their body. That is a fetus at 3 months old. I don't feel as if it's 'human' yet. I feel it's just a cell, newly forming, and we kill cells every day of our lives.

 

[isosceles]

The baby is actually starting to come together, body parts are now forming, and the brain is forming, it's like murdering a small child. The reason why in the first trimester it's not like murdering a small child because:

It hasn't started to form organs or parts of their body. That is a fetus at 3 months old. I don't feel as if it's 'human' yet. I feel it's just a cell, newly forming, and we kill cells every day of our lives.

Is it any less human simply because it doesn't look that way? It is still a growing fetus, just like the one in the picture you posted or one right before it's born.

For example, would it be "right" to go around killing disfigured people because they don't have the same human-like "feel"?

 

[Shredderbeam]

The baby is actually starting to come together, body parts are now forming, and the brain is forming, it's like murdering a small child. The reason why in the first trimester it's not like murdering a small child because:

It hasn't started to form organs or parts of their body. That is a fetus at 3 months old. I don't feel as if it's 'human' yet. I feel it's just a cell, newly forming, and we kill cells every day of our lives.

Then the issue is not one of the mother's privacy, but what you consider to be a life. To me, the issue of privacy is just as real at 8 months as it is at 2 months.

 

[theincrediblehaxx0r]

Abortion should be legalized. If you get raped and get pregnant... Why should it COMPLETELY ruin your life with a baby you didnt want

because the Bible tells you to treat women as 2nd class citizens lol...

 

[TJ]

lol love it haxx0r

anyways, i am pro-choice.

you shouldnt have someone telling you what to do with your body. once the government starts doing that we are only a step away from them controlling our religious beliefs (what we came to north america for) and then to us not having any privacy at all.

 

[Shredderbeam]

you shouldnt have someone telling you what to do with your body. once the government starts doing that we are only a step away from them controlling our religious beliefs (what we came to north america for) and then to us not having any privacy at all.

You're absolutely right.

With loss of this sort of privacy comes the loss of other privacies. It sets the precedent for such things as forcing suicidal people to get treatment, forcing miserable people to be put on antidepressants, etc.