infractions for "accusing someone of scamming without evidence"

I am gonna just straight up say this: Being infracted for "accusing someone of scamming without evidence" is complete bullshit.

I am so sick and tired of being infracted for trying to help the community. It is so painfully obvious oftentimes that a thread's author is a scammer. Unfortunately, alongside those scam threads come unknowing, innocent members who will soon fall victim to this bullshit.

I can always sniff a scammer instantly, most of the time months before they pull off their big scam. It is easy and takes minimal common sense to decipher common patterns and routes that scammers take.

Its disappointing that staff refuse to use common sense (or lack it) and will consistently infract people trying to help/warn the community by calling out scammers on their threads.... in fact, it pisses me off.

seriously its bullshit, give me a break.


Perfectly applicable anology:

Say that a guy eats a turkey sandwich, goes for a run, then goes to the beach every day at the exact same time, in the exact same order. Then one day he murders someone(s). Then he goes to jail.

Then their is another guy who has the exact same daily routine, then murders someone and goes to jail.

Then their is another guy who has the exact same daily routine, then murders someone and goes to jail.

Eventually it becomes obvious that this routine will have a clearly predictable result: murder.

Then it happens again, only this time someone ("accuser w/o evidence) warns you about their routine behavior and that it will probably lead to murder. You have the person who warned you arrested. (that doesnt make any fucking sense). Then of course the routine did lead to murder again.

So next time you see someone with that routine, will you have them arrested or just let them go to "see what happens"?.....needless to say they murder someone else.

basically your throwing the good people in jail while letting murderers run free.




obviously im not saying eating turkey sandwich, running, and going to the beach will cause someone to murder someone else. Its an obvious metaphor, do not pick at technicalities.

 

You're essentially telling the staff to base their judgment on wild assumptions and to let anyone accuse someone of scamming even if they've done nothing like that at all. It's a business technique to drive competition into the ground, or even a revenge tactic if the user was unhappy with the service given by the seller, or if they thought it were too expensive.

What you're saying here can go two ways;
- It would mean we wholeheartedly trust retards who try and hamper the legit businesses of others
- It would also mean that someone acting unintentionally suspicious would be on our list of people to ban

It doesn't work like this in the real world. I'm sure you've seen countless sketchy guys on the street and think "wow what a pedo" or "wow he probably does obscene amounts of drugs everyday" when in fact he does and is neither, just a regular guy with maybe a mental issue or who just goes about his business in a different way than others.

This will never be something that is even acknowledged amongst staff.

 

Blupig basically summed it up.

I'll have you know that you are free to leave anytime you like, if anything you are just wasting our time with your countless accusations and threads just like these.

If you want us to catch scammers, then make scam reports with valid proof and stop making accusations that are based solely off assumptions. The less you draw attention to these posts, the more time we have to actually do scam reports.

 

He's making feedback based on his experiences and is just voicing his opinion. As a Moderator, you should be trying to help him out rather than encouraging him to leave. Also saying it's a "waste of your time" shouldn't be said by any Moderator.

 

Anything that is against the rules and done purposely is a waste of our time.

If he is doing this over and over again after knowingly getting infractions for it in the past, then he knows that he is doing wrong and is deliberately wasting staff time.

I'd also like to point out that its absolutely useless to "help" people when you're the exact person they're targeting. To be honest, I'd say I helped him as best I can when I told him to stop making these posts and make scam reports with valid proof.

Care to argue otherwise?

 

point taken and understood. but its still bullshit that i will get an infraction for properly accusing someone. And you still have failed to acknowledge the use of common sense among staff. Idc about protocol. I am not saying to instantly ban someone off an accusation but just use your own common sense to decide if the person accusing might be right or if they are just doing it to fuck competition or w.e.

Ok, Lets continue to let them scam before they get banned. dont you people realize that they dont give a shit about getting banned after they scam.... they know they will get banned. All they care about is committing the scam and dont give a shit what happens after. Then you give them a useless ban...then they come back next day, new acc, new IP. Seriously...

 

What about the people that are legitimate? I'm sure they care about getting banned, how about we just ban every person we assume is a scammer? I'm sure that'd go well.

We all have to start somewhere, and if staff members banned people based on assumptions, I probably would have never made it this far, as I didn't want to go first when I was new either.

Also, I'll have you know that we do ban people when we highly suspect they are a scammer, it has happened.

 

Yes, i am doing it over and over again. Because I believe what i am doing is right. The same way you believe infracting me for it is right. Now your just telling me that your belief is superior to mine with no factual basis.

Also, i am not deliberately wasting staff time. I am trying to warn people and do my part stopping the fucking scammers because i know staff doesnt...

 

I've said this once and I'll say it again.

You volunteered to waste your time.

 

I'm not here to argue with you. I'm merely pointing out that he's just making a simple feedback thread and that your reply should have been worded just a tiny bit better. This is my last time posted. I hope my little piece of advice may help you with your job a little better. Thanks.

 

I do my job just fine, thanks.

As for Gurtation, we volunteer to do this to help the community, and it's sad when the exact people who complain about scammers make us veer away from scammers to deal with posts they made.

The rules won't change Angus, you may as well accept the fact that you cannot accuse someone without valid proof, and if you really suspect someone is scamming, PM a moderator with your assumptions and why you think they may be scamming.

Do us both a favor and stop making those posts (accusing without proof), otherwise you may just end up banned.

 

Now you're just being arrogant, my friend. There's always room for improvement.

 

I see a lot of people posting "Warning, twc, this guy doesn't use OMM"
And "Warning, this guy is total scammerl0l0l00l"
I can report that? I don't see why I should...

If the person is attempting to scam, not use a OMM, I feel the rest of the community should know that.

Someone earlier made a report on someone, asking them to issue him a TWC.
The staff wouldn't.
A few hours later, he went out and scammed 50mil
(The guy who did it had a red phat in his avatar, and started with a xen or something)

I feel Angus is doing the right thing.
As long as he is warning the community of a potential scammer.

However, he should just say "TWC;reasonhere" instead of flat out "scammer"

 

"Someone earlier made a report on someone, asking them to issue him a TWC.
The staff wouldn't.
A few hours later, he went out and scammed 50mil"

exactly. This is what is happening on a consistent, daily basis.

"However, he should just say 'TWC;reasonhere'"

Been there, done that, and been infracted for it....

 

What? No one is telling you that their beliefs are superior to yours. They're telling you that you have to follow the site rules, like everyone else. If you have a problem with a rule feel free to try and have it amended, I have no problem with threads like this. What you're not welcome to do is continue to violate the rule, simply because you disagree with it.

 

I agree with this. I think if someone has attempted to trade another person and has picked up on some obvious hints that may foreshadow a scammer (for example, not agreeing to use a MM, not willing to take requested screenshots, going offline when a suggestion is made) then a post of "TWC because [insert reason here]" should be an allowed post. Of course, a screenshot of the reason should also be provided and would help with the legitimacy of the accusation.

However, I don't agree with random accusations made on topics based purely on gut feelings. There needs to be some substance to the accusations or else they have no meaning. And generally, these accusations can hurt possible new, legit Sythers that have no intention to scam.

 

I respect how you have come at it. I agree I may have gone a little off-track with that statement. but after thinking a bit I somehwat disagree.

" If you have a problem with a rule feel free to try and have it amended"

trying...

"What you're not welcome to do is continue to violate the rule, simply because you disagree with it."

Why? Thats the idea that the Nazi's ran on too. It was a rule, their job even, to kill innocent people. So following that logic, any Nazi should simply continue to slaughter innocent humans because a rule is a rule, regardless of how they feel about it.

 

That's a horrible analogy. No one is forcing you to do anything. We're telling you what you are not allowed to do on this site. Use of this site is contingent on following the rules. The rules are what they are because the staff has deemed it in the best interest of all users for everyone to follow them. You're not free to disregard them simply because you disagree with them. I'm not one to say "if you don't like it then leave", but no one is forcing you to use these forums. What we are saying is that anyone who wants use Sythe.org must do so in accordance with the rules we have set out.

 

ah fair enough. i wouldnt go as far as saying the analogy is "horrible". i think it is certainly at least moderately applicable if not more so. In fact, it parallels the analogized circumstance in all but one way. The only reason its not is because, as you said, it is my choice to use sythe and it is not forced upon me....whereas germans probably didnt have as much of a choice.

but, i do certainly understand and respect your response(s) the most out of any other opposition thus far. Though I do not completely agree with everything you say, there are some things I do...and you have brought all of these things to my attention in what i believe to be the best and most reasonable manner... and i thank you for that


edit: P.S. I still do think, though, that rising up against possibly unfair rule (forced or not. sythe or germany or not) should not be discouraged.

 

I agree with letsrenovate.