Remove ID verification for 3rd party/make a sticky with warning of risks

Hi!

I came across this thread today:

Squire | Fully Automated OSRS Client | Private and Slotted | Gauntlet, Shamans, GWD & More
It shows a thread advertising a 3rd party client for OSRS that makes botting easy and (allegedly) safe.
When I joined their Discord server it asks for the user to verify themselves with their ID card and this made some bells ring inside my head, and surely inside some of yours too.

Now, I get the idea of verifying yourself on a website that owns a full on LLC/GMBH/BV because the risk of them using your ID for fraudulent reasons is way smaller than with individuals. But needing to verify your full on real world identity for software that basically breaks the rules of the game you're using the software for is really, really far fetched in my opinion.

I've checked out their FAQ on their Discord which states that: Our verification process isn't for us. It's for you. To ensure you and all of our users are safe, having a verification process allows us to closely monitor our member count, along with making sure the product doesn't end up in the wrong hands.

I understand well that being secure with the costumers you have is a big thing but there must be better ways than making them oblige to verifying with their real world identity.. Not even mentioning the fact that, sometimes unknowingly, people are making themselves vulnerable for identity theft, which some of you may know, is something that can ruin one's entire life.

I don't think I need to go into depth in how potentially devastating identity theft can be for some. And how allowing this creates a gateway for other potential scammers to enter the realm of identity theft.

As for another FAQ question they have listed on their Discord it states: - What steps does Squire take to ensure safety for the user? While we'd love to be transparent about this, it would only make you less safe if we divulged this information. Rest assured we take every step we can towards ensuring safety for our users. We haven't had a single third party client ban yet, so we must be doing something right.

This doesn't sit quite right with me. You're asking costumers to disclose their full on identity for your already rule breaking software and can't deliver a solid statement as to how you ensure their safety in the process.

Now as for the suggestion; Make it unable for Sythe users to advertise software that requires costumers to verify themselves with their ID-card/passport

Now I understand that this may be out of the Sythe staff their reach and came up with an alternate suggestion; Create a sticky in the regarding sub-forum to warn users to be mindful about sending out their personal details.


Let me know what you think, I want this to be an open discussion so feel free to share your thoughts.

 

Nobody is forcing you to use their product.

If you feel uncomfortable abiding by their rules - as weird as those rules are - then avoid using them. They're free to decide whatever their rules are, just like you're free whether or not you'll use them or their competitors (who may offer more attractive terms).

 

The thing is that I want to make it more wide spread about the dangers of handing over your ID card to people you don't actually know and what they can potentially do with it. Hence the double sided suggestion.

 

Tbf, I think it's largely user's own responsibility to whom and for what reason they willingly hand over their personal data. Especially when taking into consideration that this is a black market and it has all sorts of cross-overs.

As for awareness, sure. Identity fraud is a big thing and you're free to create a thread about this

 

Oh absolutely, in the end it's the person's own responsibility. But let's take a look at the gold selling sub-forums where they have this sticky that warns people about any possible scenario that could or could not go wrong.

I don't see why this isn't something to be warned about, especially seeing the real life implications identity theft may have.

 

I'm generally in favor of stickying core problems, otherwise you risk creating text-overload, which impacts those core problems. So for me it depends on how important staff assesses this to be. Also, what will you write in those stickies, and to what effect?

 

The idea is: the more extensive a sticky is / the more there is to read, then this goes at the cost of the effectivity of the sticky as a whole. (people tend to be dissuaded to read extensive stickies and much rather just skim it / more available info -> relatively less info processed)

 

The general effect is to warn people that might be unfamiliar to the risks of identity theft.
As to what I would write would be pretty short and straightforward because in this case, you want to avoid giving scammers too much information.

A simple warning to weigh out the risk and reward for their own peace of mind will be enough. This can however be fine-tuned to the liking of the Sythe staff.

 

I think that this is the premise where we might disagree, my assumption is that people on this website are already aware of the dangers of identity theft and if not that they already should be. There are much more subtle dangers that deserve attention (double spenders, etc.) One could wonder if people should even be here if they don't have any basic understanding of the dangers of identity theft. Don't forget that with a couple of exceptions here and there (@BlackBlasses you maybe ????), this website doesn't consist of boomers.

 

As I stated in the thread in question:

Verifying your ID is a reasonably common practice in this market.

As @President has also already pointed out:

You as a consumer have the right to choose whether or not you want to verify your identity to be able to purchase the product the seller is selling.

You're literally wasting time with this post, as this will never be approved.
ID verification is a standard in this industry for a lot of reasons and it's a necessary step in ensuring the sellers (and sometimes buyers) safety at times.
You can choose to simply not verify, and not buy the product. Simple.

 

Verifying your ID to pay for a 3rd party bot client is NOT a common practice.

I don't need to hear from one of their moderators that I'm wasting my time. You somehow feel way too attacked by this simple suggestion to keep people safe from identity theft. I really think you haven't read my suggestion at all.

 

It will be.
I also verified with the sites administrators before posting my thread.

 

This contributed nothing.

 

Why are you writing this like it's also a report against Squire though? If you're saying the client isn't what this post is about, why make claims like:

As an FYI in the case of Squire specifically - the FAQ you're quoting is in regards to the safety of the client, and nothing to do with identity.
The reason the information can't be provided is because the act of explaining how the client is protected would compromise the integrity of that safety.
If you have questions regarding Squire specifically, feel free to reach out to me on Discord.

All that said, your notion of not allowing ID verification is ridiculous.
Sellers of a product have a right to decide whom they want to sell that product to, just like buyers have a right to decide if they want to buy a product.
No support.

 

One of the problems we face in the plugin community is people leaking our products, people remaking them, people “cracking them” and distributing them upon many other things.

This gives you, the user incentive not to leak their plugins, and if you do you face the repercussions of doing so.

I fully support them doing this.

 

Couldn't have said it better. Users are free to compete on price as well as "other terms" on Sythe. ID verification requirements are one such other term that you are welcome to negotiate... or just use someone else instead if you're uncomfortable with one provider's ID verification requirements.