Everyone is a libertarian

Stolen from conversation! You dog, you!

On a related note, in a totalitarian society, the government would take both this thread and and my property, and then shoot me.

 

So should I believe it's right to take what is not mines? Have sex with someone who's unwilling? Kill someone who's life I don't have the right to take?

Edit: I'm not being a smart ass, I'm just trying to figure out what you're saying. I don't know if this is more of a statement then a discussion waiting to be started.

 

Eh, not really. Libertarian philosophy goes far beyond ''normal'' morality. Also, while libertarians are quite happy to acknowledge the property rights of ordinary citizens, they are less willing to acknowledge the state's right to exist. So while an ordinary citizen's property rights are recognised their fellow citizens, the government's ownership of the country seemingly cannot be recognized by other governments. This seems totally inconsistant to me.

While certain ''less extreme'' libertarians will acknowledge that governments are indeed necessary for society to function, they too will make issue of the means of funding said government's operations: taxation. Libertarians will cry out until their tongue is black about how the government is sending ''men with guns'' around to their houses to steal money off them. This is where yet another fallacy lies.

Taxation is not theft. When you became resident in the country you live in, you automatically agreed to be bound by that country's laws, social contract. Part of this of course is the tax code. Of course, if you are a child, your parents decide this for you. When you become an adult, if you dislike the taxation/legal system in your country, you can emigrate. It's like when you buy a CD, you are bound by the copyright. Don't like the copyright? Well you bought the wrong CD... Trade it in and get a new one with a less restrictive copyright attached to it.

So yeah, libertarian philosophy has a lot of moral fallacies in it. A lot of what libertarians claim are ''theft'' aren't really theft at all, when you examine them closely.

 

What he is saying it that libertarianism is more of a basic set of beliefs then political ideology.

I think

I agree though, libertarianism is incredibly redundant and simple. Small government = Let me have a gun and not pay taxes on anything.

 

I'm just wondering what discussion you're trying to create. It seems that you've just told us a fact rather than a opinion to discuss.

 

Regardless of whether or not I agree with the statement, he did post something as if it were a fact.

"Everyone is a libertarian"

Not exactly an open-ended statement is it?

 

How would you differentiate someone with authoritarian values versus libertarian values then? They are different.

 

How would you not? Authoritarianism holds power in a dictator who gives the ruled some degree of freedom, while libertarian philosophy, at its core, is "no hitting and my stuff is my stuff". Governments, throughout history, have violated both of these values.

 

Whose to say I think murder is wrong? We are all animals, we don't know what right or wrong means, only what we believe is right and wrong.

 

I'm saying, that if your statement "Everyone is a libertarian" is true, then there would be no authoritarians, but that's not the case. Authoritarians are clearly different.

 

Okay, not everyone is a libertarian. Many people already believe that murder, theft, rape, and so on, are immoral; being consistent with these beliefs is all you need to be a core libertarian.

 

I'm not saying I don't agree, I'm just pointing out that the "fact" you're claiming is not entirely true in its current form.

On a side note, wouldn't an extreme libertarian argue that those who are authoritarians have the right to that set of beliefs? After all, libertarians desire maximum freedom (as should any rational person in my opinion).

 

Of course. You are welcome to go build your own city/nation/government/etc and invite any that you want in, providing that you do not infringe upon their rights.