Surrender To Love

Ughster · Feb 7, 2010

Original Author Requested that I take this post down. I am not the original author.

The Omega One · Feb 7, 2010

It's been a year since i've been on this forum and the first thing I look at is all this damn hippy crap?

Sythe · Feb 7, 2010

Ughster said: ↑

One can also see this form of surrender inherent within nature. The consciousness of plants is based on selfless surrender. Plants and trees willingly give themselves to the service of all life so that life itself may continue and propagate. Plants have been around much longer than our species, and they are able to sustain all life on the planet through the production of food and oxygen while simultaneously allowing their growth and evolution of their own species.
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So basically altruism, collectivism, mysticism and worship of an invisible metaphysical being. All the things that perpetuated the grinding poverty and slavery of the dark ages and most of human history up to this point.

Surrender in it's purest form ultimately comes from a place of love.
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Subjugation. Surrender comes from subjugation. There is no surrender to love because it is not an enemy to be fought. The love of which you speak is the Stockholm syndrome.

It is out of love that we are able to surrender ourselves to the forces of the cosmos so that we might be of greater service to Spirit. The more we allow ourselves to align with the natural vibration of nature, the more we surrender to life as a process, accepting our place in something much greater than ourselves, the less resistance we will encounter in our existence. It is in this way that we might liberate ourselves from all self-created suffering.
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Let me answer this with its diametric opposite, since there is no reasoned arguments in any of this anyway. It's all just pathos.

All Things Are Nothing To Me

What is not supposed to be my concern! First and foremost, the Good Cause, then God's
cause, the cause of mankind, of truth, of freedom, of humanity, of justice; further, the cause of
my people, my prince, my fatherland; finally, even the cause of Mind, and a thousand other
causes. Only my cause is never to be my concern. "Shame on the egoist who thinks only of
himself!"

Let us look and see, then, how they manage their concerns -- they for whose cause we are
to labor, devote ourselves, and grow enthusiastic.

You have much profound information to give about God, and have for thousands of years
"searched the depths of the Godhead," and looked into its heart, so that you can doubtless tell
us how God himself attends to "God's cause," which we are called to serve. And you do not
conceal the Lord's doings, either. Now, what is his cause? Has he, as is demanded of us, made
an alien cause, the cause of truth or love, his own? You are shocked by this misunderstanding,
and you instruct us that God's cause is indeed the cause of truth and love, but that this cause
cannot be called alien to him, because God is himself truth and love; you are shocked by the
assumption that God could be like us poor worms in furthering an alien cause as his own.
"Should God take up the cause of truth if he were not himself truth?" He cares only for his
cause, but, because he is all in all, therefore all is his cause! But we, we are not all in all, and
our cause is altogether little and contemptible; therefore we must "serve a higher cause." --
Now it is clear, God cares only for what is his, busies himself only with himself, thinks only
of himself, and has only himself before his eyes; woe to all that is not well-pleasing to him.
He serves no higher person, and satisfies only himself. His cause is -- a purely egoistic cause.
How is it with mankind, whose cause we are to make our own? Is its cause that of another,
and does mankind serve a higher cause? No, mankind looks only at itself, mankind will
promote the interests of mankind only, mankind is its own cause. That it may develop, it
causes nations and individuals to wear themselves out in its service, and, when they have
accomplished what mankind needs, it throws them on the dung-heap of history in gratitude. Is
not mankind's cause -- a purely egoistic cause?

I have no need to take up each thing that wants to throw its cause on us and show that it is
occupied only with itself, not with us, only with its good, not with ours. Look at the rest for
yourselves. Do truth, freedom, humanity, justice, desire anything else than that you grow
enthusiastic and serve them?

They all have an admirable time of it when they receive zealous homage. Just observe the
nation that is defended by devoted patriots. The patriots fall in bloody battle or in the fight
with hunger and want; what does the nation care for that? By the manure of their corpses the
nation comes to "its bloom"! The individuals have died "for the great cause of the nation," and
the nation sends some words of thanks after them and -- has the profit of it. I call that a paying
kind of egoism.

But only look at that Sultan who cares so lovingly for his people. Is he not pure
unselfishness itself, and does he not hourly sacrifice himself for his people? Oh, yes, for "his
people." Just try it; show yourself not as his, but as your own; for breaking away from his
egoism you will take a trip to jail. The Sultan has set his cause on nothing but himself; he is to
himself all in all, he is to himself the only one, and tolerates nobody who would dare not to be
one of "his people."

And will you not learn by these brilliant examples that the egoist gets on best? I for my
part take a lesson from them, and propose, instead of further unselfishly serving those great
egoists, rather to be the egoist myself.

God and mankind have concerned themselves for nothing, for nothing but themselves. Let
me then likewise concern myself for myself, who am equally with God the nothing of all
others, who am my all, who am the only one.

If God, if mankind, as you affirm, have substance enough in themselves to be all in all to
themselves, then I feel that I shall still less lack that, and that I shall have no complaint to
make of my "emptiness." I am not nothing in the sense of emptiness, but I am the creative
nothing, the nothing out of which I myself as creator create everything.

Away, then, with every concern that is not altogether my concern! You think at least the
"good cause" must be my concern? What's good, what's bad? Why, I myself am my concern,
and I am neither good nor bad. Neither has meaning for me.

The divine is God's concern; the human, man's. My concern is neither the divine nor the
human, not the true, good, just, free, etc., but solely what is mine, and it is not a general one,
but is -- unique, as I am unique.

Nothing is more to me than myself!
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-Max Stirner. "The Ego and his Own," pg 1-2. First published 1844.

Peace.Love.Programming · Feb 8, 2010

Sometimes, resistance, or internal friction, is a good thing. It creates a fire within us that provides fuel for transformation. it is in this way that we may use our own weaknesses to our advantage, by utilizing the energy that is created in their transmutation we can feed ourselves and gather more energy to push ourselves forward.
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Very well thought-out and spoken words. I agree entirely except for this paragraph. Resistance to the natural energy flow of the cosmos is what brings you back to stagnancy, which is not a good thing.

Peace.Love.Programming · Feb 8, 2010

Sythe said:

Altruism
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I hate this word because it is usually used to scientifically explain the reasons people who are less attached to this society act. You, Pen, Shredderbeam, and Finniscool are the pretentious leaders of a weak-minded nation riding the gravy train. You are so incredibly attached and stubborn I doubt you will ever be cured of your disease. Tear down the wall, and you will be cured.

Sythe said:

collectivism
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Expand.

Sythe said:

mysticism
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He has condensed his thoughts enough that theory is no longer a part of it. It's all self-understanding, but there is allot more to it.

Sythe said:

worship of an invisible metaphysical being
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Did he say he worships god? Maybe he does but I do not. The paragraph on god was pure theory, but very interesting.

Sythe said:

Subjugation. Surrender comes from subjugation. There is no surrender to love because it is not an enemy to be fought. The love of which you speak is the Stockholm syndrome.
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Some things do not have words to explain themselves. Sometimes you have to understand the concepts and not the words.

Sythe said:

All the things that perpetuated the grinding poverty and slavery of the dark ages and most of human history up to this point.[/Sythe]
No. As humans we are progressing exponentially. We will never return to the point we were at without a huge disturbance in our growth. We will try to progress, and we might eventually even understand - but people like you slow down that progress.

Sythe said:

It's all just pathos.
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Definitly not.
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Sythe · Feb 9, 2010

Peace.Love.Programming said: ↑

I hate this word because it is usually used to scientifically explain the reasons people who are less attached to this society act. You, Pen, Shredderbeam, and Finniscool are the pretentious leaders of a weak-minded nation riding the gravy train. You are so incredibly attached and stubborn I doubt you will ever be cured of your disease. Tear down the wall, and you will be cured.
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Well this is all nonsense and sophistry. What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You have an altruist morality. This is completely what you are presenting; a doctrine of 'selflessness' or collectivism. Which is simply another way of saying a doctrine of slavery. If it is immoral for me to live for my own values then I must live for the values of someone else. This is slavery. Collectivism and mysticism are explicitly slavery. What do you suppose "surrender to a higher power" means? Read the passage I posted above.

Incidentally, slave moralities were developed by the ruling elites for the purposes of keeping slaves at minimal cost. You've put yourself in these chains even though you are now free, because your mind and sense of self has been destroyed by public education. It's not your fault, of course, but you should work to fix your salutation now that you are aware of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality

Some things do not have words to explain themselves. Sometimes you have to understand the concepts and not the words.
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This is sophistry.

Sythe said:

All the things that perpetuated the grinding poverty and slavery of the dark ages and most of human history up to this point.
Click to expand...

No. As humans we are progressing exponentially. We will never return to the point we were at without a huge disturbance in our growth. We will try to progress, and we might eventually even understand - but people like you slow down that progress.
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No, you have it all backwards. The scientific revolution brought us freedom and economic progress and growth. We no longer burn people at the stake or bury them alive. Because we understand that things must be proven using empiricism and logic in order to verify their truth-value.

You want to take us back to the primacy of consciousness. The single greatest epistemological mind fart in the history of the human race. Responsible for 99% of it's unnatural deaths.

This isn't hypothetical either. You don't need to imagine the dark ages, they still exist where mysticism is rampant.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/04/girl-buried-alive-turkey

This is the sort of bullshit you people bring with you. Death and chaos and destruction for your imbecilic irrational beliefs. It's frankly embarrassing.

And you're a hypocrite also. There exist many places where theocracy and the rule of the church is still pervasive. Why not go live in one of these places?

Setas · Feb 15, 2010

Lol this is drug called salvia halutinations pictures

dam prayer noobs · Feb 22, 2010

Sythe said: ↑

You have an altruist morality. This is completely what you are presenting; a doctrine of 'selflessness' or collectivism. Which is simply another way of saying a doctrine of slavery. If it is immoral for me to live for my own values then I must live for the values of someone else. This is slavery. Collectivism and mysticism are explicitly slavery. What do you suppose "surrender to a higher power" means? Read the passage I posted above.
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I don't think that's what Ughster meant by surrendering. You are taking it as if you are surrendering your freedoms and self desires against your will to a government/church. This is absolutely what we are against. What he meant by surrender is to stop and think for a moment and come to terms with life and death, to take a break from the everyday things we worry and engulf ourselves with and enjoy life for what it is worth.

Sythe said: ↑

Incidentally, slave moralities were developed by the ruling elites for the purposes of keeping slaves at minimal cost. You've put yourself in these chains even though you are now free, because your mind and sense of self has been destroyed by public education. It's not your fault, of course, but you should work to fix your salutation now that you are aware of it.
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None of this is happening by force, no one should force anyone to be selfless. The only person that can achieve this characteristic is the individual, and only they can do it. Yes there are people who are being selfless and making large donations for simple materialistic reasons or because they think it is the "right" thing to do, but those people are considerably less happy than the person who is purely selfless. The people who achieve this transformation from the inside are truly the happiest people because they almost have no need to engulf in material items, so they experience almost no losses.

Sythe said: ↑

This is the sort of bullshit you people bring with you. Death and chaos and destruction for your imbecilic irrational beliefs. It's frankly embarrassing.
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You're generalizing.

Aeroshaft · Feb 22, 2010

I love you brother.

-HS

Peace.Love.Programming · Mar 5, 2010

Bump, not gravedug yet I believe?

Ughster · May 12, 2010

I love you all.

olweasel · May 12, 2010

Ughster said: ↑

When we are open and receptive to the natural energy flow of the cosmos, we have access to greater reserves of energy. By surrendering the self we may allow source energy to channel directly through us, giving us the strength to empower ourselves and those around us as we unify with the Spirit of all things. This source energy is freely available for all beings, and our capacity to channel it depends solely upon our ability to surrender ourselves to the flow of the universe.

We have collectively manifested several blockages within our society that keep us from living within this natural state. When energy is unable to flow freely due to blockages, we become stagnant. This stagnancy keeps us locked in one place as we consistently manifest repetitive patterns in our life over and over again. By acknowledging the parts of ourselves that we have been avoiding, and confronting the aspects of our shadow which we have been repressing or denying, we can observe the tendencies and habits which have imprisoned us within our current manifestation of reality. Many of these aspects of our shadow are very deep seeded traumas that took root in our unconscious during past lives or early child hood experiences when we were vulnerable to impression.
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How can you confirm this?

I don't mean to make an ad hominem attack, but this part of your rhetoric had some resemblance to the beliefs of some mentally unstable murderers, who killed people because they had "negative energy" and they "disturbed the cosmos".

Ughster · May 12, 2010

Brother, your comparing me to a murderer?

We are all murderers. do you have any idea what kind of death and destruction you are responsible for over the course of your day to day life?

How many micro-organisms, plants, animals, are destroyed as a result of your vilgilant efforts to continue living. Within your very body thousands of cells are being killed every day due to your direct actions! The same is true for us all, we are in this together.

Life is Death.

I love you anyway, and I love myself too.

olweasel · May 12, 2010

Cells and microorganisms aren't "sentient beings", so their certain decimation is a very different thing from killing a "brother".

Ughster · May 12, 2010

I believe they are sentient.

I talk to them all the time, I'm a pretty gracious tyrant when it comes to the constructs of my bodily organism. I kill my parasites with love!

Brother, I love you, I find this conversation extremely silly and I bid you good fortune in your attempts to distort the ideas I have presented here. You are making pathetic accusations in regards to my character which hold no substance of any merit. I am walking with Spirit, I have dedicated my life to the benefit of all sentient beings.

I love you.

vegury · May 12, 2010

I don't mean to make an ad hominem attack, but this part of your rhetoric had some resemblance to the beliefs of some mentally unstable murderers, who killed people because they had "negative energy" and they "disturbed the cosmos".
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Microorganisms are sentient. I too speak with them all of the time. You need to open yourself to the possibilities, brother. While you mar these ideas with no backing, I still love you and wish you good fortune.

In Lak'Ech, I am another yourself.

olweasel · May 12, 2010

How can I speak with microorganisms?

How can I obtain empirical evidence of this?

vegury · May 12, 2010

Meditation and the utilization of certain plants/herbs.

olweasel · May 12, 2010

I've meditated before. I didn't notice anything.

And all psychotropics do is trigger hallucinations.

Obviously, accounts gathered while your brain function is immobilized are going to be totally void descriptors of reality.

When you're high you might think that you're swimming to the moon, when in reality your buddies are just watching you mindlessly roll around in a puddle.

vegury · May 13, 2010

Meditate for 10 minutes every hour for two weeks. Don't just half-ass a few attempts. I love you, but you have yet to find your way.

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