[Denied] Suggestion Regarding Recovery Responsibility

Are you suggesting we have to hold 1 year TOS yes or no?
Are you suggesting the rules be switched so that we have to give them access to the original email and its switched to theirs we still have to hold the 1 year TOS??
All of it kind of sounds pointless because your logic is , correct me if I'm wrong here...

"The accounts safer if you hold access to the email"
"1 year TOS is reasonable"
"You actually make individual emails for all your accounts?"
Because #1 you having the email or not makes it safer no one one not even yourself especially at a year point.

1 year TOS is retarded considering after a year a client can add as much detail to the account to gain ownership/recovery ability.

If you are making individual accounts for each of the accounts you sell you def aren't moving enough volume to understand the concept of the headaches of this.

Thankfully you aren't suggesting we have to all adopt this and if its just to suggest "lifetime insurance guidelines" then its really kind of a pointless suggestion since no one can actually say if its lifetime or not thats for you to decide what you want to give your client and anyone can say "lifetime insurance" and just scamquit anyway.

Really just seems like an extra rule that will become overly complicated down the line and cause more headache than good for the mods involved/yourselves. "Lifetime insurance" just sounds like a marketing tactic that will never be held to its actual title of "lifetime" just like saying "unreg email accounts are safer" its a lie / marketing... so to be honest not worth the time to implement or deal with the suggestion.

Not ranting just dont see the point of this other than increased market appeal ..

Yellow Hat

 

YH what @IGotOwned is saying is this:

If you as a seller decide that you are going to create an account, register an email to it, and then refuse to let the buyer register their own email (or give them access to the registered one, either way). If you are enforcing that you retain the registered email; in THAT instance, you should be responsible for the account.
If however you allow the client to change the email, or if you give them the email you registered, then you can have it 1 month or whatever you want.

 

Well that makes more sense but is kind of uhm already in place no? What type of client would agree to buy an account that doesnt get access to the email or ability to change their own password/ have an agent to help change the password? Idk buying an account without the freedom to change your own info is mental but w.e works I suppose lol. + being a provider and having to change a pw anytime a client requests when you've sold it sounds like more trouble than its worth..

Sold hundreds and hundreds of accounts and never had a client ever ask for me to recover an account for them or say i scammed them so doing all this extra work to change their passwords and maintain ownership of the email seems like way more work than its worth to deal with the disputes that dont come xd

 

Lots have, IGO mentioned Azie as an example, and lots of other big sellers demand they retain the registered email but only provide a few months of warranty.

As I mentioned, that's how my company operates as well, we retain the registered email at all times (unless the client wants us to change it for them, we do, but it voids our warranty then).
This is how we can realistically provide a lifetime warranty and be confident in it.

Some of us don't deal in massive volume, but rather higher end accounts, and when dealing with specifically high end accounts, this way of business makes more sense as it provides us a worry-free way to buy the account back and know it's still secure.

 

It really makes sense when you put it this way, there's different ways of providing accounts and a service at the same time, and as long as the sellers are reputable and established with plenty of feedback and no scam or recovery reports (even if no action is taken against), then it should be safe.


I think if the original seller maintains the registered email, then it implies involvement in the account and in a way, partial ownership, as they basically can recover the account whenever, but don't because it is sold. It can really be seen as just renting or allow you to play on the account, with the promise of security (kinda like using safe deposit boxes at a bank or renting something, you don't really own it fully)


In these cases I think its valid that the seller be held fully responsible for anything that happens to the account (aside from botting and RWT bans by buyer) and to provide warranty, support, and be ready to recover the account on request.


The only reason this makes any business sense at all is to offer it as a premium service with warranty benefits (and to be considered and treated as a service / contract, rather than an outright purchase), where the seller can be trusted to hold on to the recovery information and serve as a reliable owner with the promise of warranty, though if they ever leave the market, they should be ready to give the buyer full ownership.



The other benefit is the ability to be able to "sell the account back" to the seller, but as ownership isn't 100%, this is another issue. Its almost artificial, though if an account were to be offered as a rental, it would be way less appealing to the market, so maybe that's why its still considered a sale. On the other hand, this does allow the seller to re-sell the account fully, as the details are secure and the product per se, is intact. Consider it almost like a lease, maybe that's a better word.

Personally, I think this should be clarified.

Assuming a trusted seller that won't scam (reputable long-standing companies with plenty of time and money invested into their business) there should be several different account sale types defined. Here is a recommendation as to what it could look like:




Full account sale - account ownership is 100% given to the buyer. A short (1-3 month) warranty seems valid here. If the account is unregistered, the buyer simply registers their own email. If there is a registered email, then the seller must remove it from the account by letting the buyer register their own email. Account recovery information (creation details, location, first passwords / membership, etc) MUST be provided! After the warranty period, the seller holds no responsibility. Buyer the account back is treated as any normal account sale, only if you want to and if you trust the owner.



Contract Sale with Warranty - account is sold to the buyer, but hard ownership is still maintained by the seller as they have their own registered email / and sole knowledge of account recovery information & creation info. This is generally considered indefinite (account buyer has full control of account and it will not be recovered unless requested).

This is a premium service and contract as the seller MUST be willing to provide support, recovery, and responsibility for the account AT ALL TIMES!!! If the seller leaves the market, they must be willing to provide full ownership / recovery information to the buyer, or provide a refund and keep the account.

The benefit to the buyer is an assumed safer account that will be insured by a trusted and established seller. They also are able to return the account for a partial refund (determined by the TOS, the buyer is held to this and they MUST take back the account on request so long as it is in the same condition (same pk build, ban/mute status), and so long as the buyer is still in good standing in the marketplace (good feedback and no TWC/DNT/BAN status).

The benefit to the seller is the ability to offer a premium product while establishing a long-lasting relationship with the buyer with the ability to gain trust / reputation and future business. If they offer to option of buying the account back, it will be at a reduced price, though the account will be able to be sold again and is fully secure as the buyer can recover it at any time.

Best for high value accounts that take time to build and are assumed to be safe as they are bought from established sellers.




Account Lease - Similar to above, but the time is defined, so it becomes more of a rental type situation, assumes the seller will one day have to return the account. Warranty is only provided until the time is up, and then you return the account. Not recommended for pure accounts or high value account builds. Long term rental.



Account Rental - Same as a lease really, but more lower value accounts. Warranty becomes less of an issue as these are short term rentals (day, week, month).


Full but w partial info, missing details / Conditional Account Sale - An account sale where the the seller does not provide all information. The buyer may or may not be allowed to register their own email, though generally they will, as otherwise the sale would be less appealing. A lot of these sales will be with unregistered emails, as these are generally lower value accounts that are mass produced and are typically considered safe, they are created with the intention of being sold. Not all recovery details may be provided, this can protect the sellers personal info but will also make it harder for the buyer to recover the account if something happens. Proceed with caution, only do this with trusted sellers. Basically a full account sale but one where you don't get all the information. There is generally no warranty with these beyond the 30 day requirement set by the rules. These are best only when buying from trusted sellers and the price should also be lower than that of a regular full account sale, as it is missing some details.

Some normal sellers also offer accounts like this, as they may simply have not kept track of everything when they owned the account, they usually also are not established sellers but just normal ordinary players looking to sell their account. The price is generally lower for these accounts. Be careful when buying these.

This also covers accounts where the original registered email cannot be changed, but is assumed to be "safe", as the owner either has no access to that email account, or it was bought from someone who cannot help remove it but will not recover the account. The price will be lower due to the lower quality account. Buy with caution.




These should about cover most account sales, I think having the sellers clearly describe the kind of account that is being sold and holding them to these rules / responsibilities will clarify this and make it easier to sell and buy on here.

 

I think your heart is in the right place with the specific types of sales, but I think that's getting a bit too specific and into detail.
I personally think the only change that needs to be made is that there's a rule that should you decide to retain ownership of the account you're selling (aka retain the registered email and recovery information), then you should be responsible for the accounts security.

 

I apologize, I was in bed and read this from my phone. Too long for me to try and reply by iPhone and address all of your points. Sound is 100% correct; you completely missed the point of my suggestion in all of your posts. Looks like you might have finally caught on with the last post you made? Not sure, going to address everything below just in case.



Of the accounts you've SOLD, how many of those do you currently have complete and sole access to the email address that is currently linked to the RS account? I would assume zero, based on your most recent reply to this thread. Therefore, this suggestion has ZERO impact on your business and your sales as it would for 90%+ of other market sales. This suggestion only pertains to a small, but high-profile/high-value/high-risk sales.

Again, none of this is relevant to my suggestion and this situation would not arise related to my suggestion. Little-to-no volume sellers require the buyer to let the seller retain complete ownership of the account [including ownership of the linked email address at all times] for all of their accounts. When they sell an account, the buyer is allowed to put his own email address on the account should he choose to do so. Therefore, this situation is not relevant to those/your account sales.

Again, speculative, but completely unrelatable to this suggestion.

Once again, no one is suggesting that account sellers be required to maintain sole access and ownership of the email address that is linked to an RS account they sell. Matter of fact, this suggestion is really saying quite the opposite, you just didn't fully understand my guy.

Simply not true. First and foremost, the highly trusted Sythe sellers who retain permanent linked email ownership post-sale have complete control of the RS account after the sale. The buyer cannot even change the password without authorization and approval from the seller. Think about it. The seller still has sole access to the linked email address. The buyer would have to request a PW change, again, from the seller. Do you think any seller is going to let the buyer change the password over and over and over? That's comical. Regardless, these situations only arise on high-profile account sales [accounts that typically range from $1K-$3K]. The OO has presumably put hundreds/thousands of hours into the account, has years of membs info, creation/early passwords, etc. No buyer is going to be able to "easily out-recover" the account with nothing but one or two passwords and a membership subscription from after the account was already 2K+ total. Lol

Once again, point missed.
1) 99% of sellers who deal with volume do not require that they maintain complete ownership of the linked email address so that is not really relevant.
2) The scam example logic that you mentioned is completely flawed. Let's say I am the original owner of a 2,200 TTLV OSRS account that sells to a buyer for $2,000. I require that my buyer let me retain ALL recovery info and personal details. More importantly, I also retain sole access to the email account linked to the RS account. The buyer gets a PW change link, that's it. I am absolutely still in complete control of the account. For all intents and purposes, the buyer is just playing on it. If my account truly is secure, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that the account gets hacked, which you suggested could happen, unless it were foul play on my end as the seller.

This ^.

Again, you're missing the point. As a high volume seller, you [yellow hat] let your buyers link their own email address to the account after the sale. Therefore, this suggestion does not apply nor impact you.

Same as above, CBA replying to each sentence. I am not suggesting that YOU have to hold 1 year TOS. This suggestion does not apply to you because of the way you sell your accounts. This suggestion only applies to accounts sold in which the seller retains sole access to the linked email, as I've stated many many times....

Exactly, which is why this suggestion DOES NOT APPLY TO 99% OF SELLERS WHO MOVE VOLUME BECAUSE THEY LET THEIR BUYERS PUT THEIR OWN EMAIL ADDRESS ON THE ACCOUNT POST-SALE.

Not relevant, again

As you said when you first posted yesterday, Love ya so don't take this personally.
This is a very simple suggestion and I'm struggling to understand the comprehension issue. There is absolutely nothing complicated about it. Not only that, but it only applies to a small fraction of accounts that sell over the course of the year. Therefore, it would not be difficult, from a volume standpoint, to enforce at all.

Already in place? What do you mean? Oh, and plenty of people agree to buy an account that don't get access to the email or the ability to change it to their own email. Kind of crazy, right? I agree; which is even more ammo as to why this suggestion makes sense.

I'd link you several threads right now of which the sellers require it, but I don't want to put anyone on blast.



TL;DR - this is a super simple suggestion and does not apply to your nor impact your business. You don't force buyers to let you keep your own email address linked to the account at all times post-sale. Not sure what is so hard to understand here.

 

I'm with Sound. Good head space and appreciate the thought @lazerlyss. Too confusing, too intricate, and ultimately too much work for staff to enforce. Could get very muddy/murky/messy.

The beauty of my suggestion is that it only affects a very small, but high risk/high profile portion of account sales so enforcement would be tremendously easy. It also:

1) Provides stronger security for buyers of high profile accounts.
2) By providing more security, it increases the account's attraction which is good for the seller.
3) It creates a standard for sellers who wish to retain ownership of the RS account they sell by maintain the linked email account.

 

Let's remove recovery responsibility requirements entirely, then.

 

I am with you on that.

If you happened to peruse my post history, you'd see that I have been largely vocal against Sythe's involvement in buy/sell regulation. With that said, I'm in the camp of, "get involved and regulate well or don't at all."

 

if sythe doesn’t regulate, it is easier to scam and get away with scamming.

i think recovery responsibility should be enforced up to a certain point, especially if the seller has the accounts info and email, it helps protect buyers and make sythe somewhat safer.

that said, only up to a certain point, sellers should be able to set their own terms so long as they comply with the rules and buyers should be able to negotiate, even if it means paying more. also, there are plenty of sellers, so you can pick the one you feel most comfortable doing business with.

 

Idk I offer lifetime responsibility but just keep email the same. Seems to work out for me

 

@IGotOwned
Thanks for the suggestion. We spoke about this as a group and agreed we don't want to make any changes to our guidelines and rules related to account recovery responsibility.