Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

Discussion in 'Something For All' started by Sythe, Feb 6, 2008.

Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed
  1. Unread #141 - Apr 19, 2008 at 11:55 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    We're all just part of the new freedom movement. Even you socialists are, although you are the percentage who are too stupid, or too ignorant, to realize that capitalism is freedom, and socialism is neo-feudalism. Maybe you should try educating yourself with respect to economics before you take a side.
     
  3. Unread #142 - Apr 20, 2008 at 12:15 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Someone infract Sythe for double posting.
     
  5. Unread #143 - Apr 20, 2008 at 12:39 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Owner's privilege
     
  7. Unread #144 - Apr 20, 2008 at 1:06 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Sythe, there's a great book out there called Nickel and Dimed. A high society woman who was born into relative wealth, went to a great school, and became a successful businesswoman goes on an experiment with poverty. She sets up rules for herself such as she can't use any of her skills (college degree) or knowledge as well as money and she must get a job and be able to live. She went from state to state taking on several minimum wage jobs, jobs that an alarming percentage of the country holds, trying to earn a living and support herself. She describes how hard it was and how she could barely afford to pay for herself. All the people she met and all the experiences she went through basically demonstrated, through a real life experience, the poverty trap that capitalism sets people up for. If you're not born into some kind of wealth, you are screwed. People like that can't just start a business and earn money and become millionaires like capitalism claims. Only the extremely rare few (a handful out of the 300,000,000 people living in the United States) ever come out from complete poverty to wealth. The ones who do are almost always smarter or have better ideas than everyone else. Basically, the only way to succeed in a capitalistic society is either to be born into wealth or have incredibly rare skill. You fail to realize that people aren't all individuals capable of anything. People born into ghettos, even the smart ones, fall into pitfalls along the way because of the poverty around them. It's not easy at all to escape poverty without some kind of skill and to get skill you must not be in poverty. It's a catch-22 known as the poverty trap. In a marxist society you have the same factories, the same companies, the same structure, but the common worker isn't robbed of what he deserves. In a company where most of the people work for minimum wage and the managers make a very nice wage, where is the fairness? In the book, the author goes on to describe how those jobs aren't "skilless" at all. Labor is labor and it deserves fair pay. Capitalism robs people of that and combined with social darwinism, provides a poisonous atmosphere where the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. In a marxist society, everything is much more fair. Have you read 1984?

    Now I'm not as knowledgeable as ism on this topic, but in reality, you act incredibly arrogant, calling a great theory idiotic and anyone who follows it retarded. I don't recall ism or myself attacking anyone but you and your mindless zombies seem to be. Really shows your true nature.
     
  9. Unread #145 - Apr 20, 2008 at 1:49 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    You call Socialist Ignorant and Arrogant but infact we are much more intelligent then any capitalist will ever be. Why? Because we realize that Social Darwinism is just a slow form of Genocide and that the only reason there is classes is to seperate the people which is basicly cause hate between the classes. I totally agree with what conker is saying, capitlists only have time for work, making themselves better in society which will eventually chew them up and spit them from its mouth when they surpass the age of retirement. YOu spend all of your life working for what? To sit and die slowly....
     
  11. Unread #146 - Apr 20, 2008 at 4:13 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    I agree that it is hard for poor people. But what you still fail to understand is the current system we are living under IS NOT CAPITALISM.

    I want to fix these problems too, but the way forward is through the free market, not through a crackpot economic theory where the labourers seize control, violating private property rights, and then can't work out the value of their assets.

    Yes, they can. It is the story of America. The reason it doesnt happen anymore is because this system is not capitalism.

    You're just an outright idiot. You don't understand that what you are living under is not capitalism, and you falsely believe that by looting existing private property you will somehow gain a long term advantage. The truth is public property is always mistreated, while private property is always protected by its owner. Your great dream of turning private property into the great common would result in chaos of biblical proportions. People would go hungry very quickly and things which took minutes a century earlier would take days. Your system will not work, and it will not help you achieve what you want.
     
  13. Unread #147 - Apr 20, 2008 at 4:18 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Lol. You're the one advocating that the capitalist and the entrepreneur be essentially kicked out of society. That sounds like class hatred to me.


    THIS ISN'T CAPITALISM.

    THIS ISN'T CAPITALISM.

    THIS ISN'T CAPITALISM.

    Here is a quote from Ron Paul, which I agree with wholeheartedly.
    http://mises.org/story/2895

    You socialists are just ignorant to the reality of economics. You don't want to understand, you just want to blindly strike anyone who appears to be in your way. I'm sorry but economics is a science, and as such must be approached and dealt with in a rational manner.

    If anything, the current economic system in which the first world resides could be defined as state socialism. In essence you have discovered that socialism is bad, and has made people poor and the class divide wide, and your amazing magic pill solution to this problem of socialism, is more socialism!

    Wake up and smell the gasoline, or lack there of.
     
  15. Unread #148 - Apr 20, 2008 at 1:24 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Very well written.
     
  17. Unread #149 - Apr 21, 2008 at 8:32 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Very well spammed.

    Conker, you're ignorant as to the true (if somewhat twisted) form of democracy that the United States uses. If you're not attacking anyone, why are you calling people mindless zombies. That's simply childish.

    Well said.
    In capitalism you reap what you sow, without capitalism, personal incentive, and the ever-diminishing civic virtue, America wouldn't be the power that it is today. You should read a few novels about the gradual evolution from the Republic of America to the semi-Democracy of America. Democracy and capitalism go hand in hand. Socialist and Communist governments eventually collapse on themselves because they are essentially the opposite of the well-structured self-sustaining free market (capitalistic) economy. Supply and demand keep us on our feet. And don't mention recession, that's only because of the slim pieces of plastic with magnetic barcodes that you scan in place of hard cash.
     
  19. Unread #150 - Apr 22, 2008 at 12:31 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    The business cycle has long since shown to be a result of Keynesian Inflationism. If you let the government print money, or you let the banks print unlimited credit with the ability to borrow unlimited paper money from the central bank, then they will both print too much.

    The continuous printing of new money and new credit drives up prices, this causes the "boom" period. When the mal-investment caused by these artificially low interest rates (cheap credit) comes back to bite the lenders in the ass they stop lending. When they stop lending the bubbles in the market pop and the asset prices plummet. Commonly known as a recession or depression.

    It works like this; If a central bank is giving away low interest loans, or interest free loans, then imagine companies A B and C all line up to get 5 billion dollar loans.

    When they have their loans they go "oh goody, what can we buy?"

    Now imagine that there were only 10 houses in the whole world, and all three companies wanted all 10 houses. Company A says "$10,000", company B declares "$100,000", company C shouts "$1,000,000". They bid up the price of the assets until they sit at stupidly inflated prices, entirely divorced from their actual market value.

    This is exactly what causes bubbles in the market. And it only takes disinterest in further bidding up the price of a particular group of assets to destabilize the flimsy bull market and stop the banks lending. Then the whole thing comes crashing down, as we are observing in 2008, because it never had any support to begin with.
     
  21. Unread #151 - Apr 22, 2008 at 9:04 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Sorry, but it just made me lol =/
     
  23. Unread #152 - Apr 22, 2008 at 7:40 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    To sum it up, our situation is an excess of credit that doesn't have cloth to back it up and this excess of credit is (or was) chasing trivial objects at an inflated rate because of the abundance of said credit. Many were unaware of the fact that too little real money is chasing too many goods, and continued to be careless in throwing credit into others' laps only to realize later that they essentially screwed themselves over.

    The point of my previous post was that if it weren't for all of this virtual wealth, we wouldn't be in the bind that we are today. Cloth simply can't support the amount of credit that is being hefted into the companies' deep pockets, causing an initial "bubble" which suddenly bursts as loans are called out requiring physical money.

    Without all this mess of credit, capitalism would run perfectly, lending to the fact that the United States' government is the best available.

    That's fine to think to yourself, but please don't muddle up this otherwise very intellectually stimulating thread..
     
  25. Unread #153 - Apr 23, 2008 at 3:43 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Something quite closely following those lines, yes.

    Credit itself isn't the problem. The problem is the government issue and control of credit. And government issue and control of banking licenses. If it were left to the free market then there'd be much less credit, as the market is self regulating.

    Competition between real banks in a real market would be sufficient to keep the amount of credit thrown around low, and the ratio of deposits to loans high. In otherwords, this whole credit mess can be pinned down to one fundamental fact: central planning does not work as intended.
     
  27. Unread #154 - Apr 23, 2008 at 3:20 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Exactly, hatred is bred between the classes. If you do not have some kind of skill you are screwed for life in capitalism.
     
  29. Unread #155 - Apr 23, 2008 at 6:26 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    If you don't have any skill than you are screwed for life anyway. Why should other people work harder and be forced to support people who are incapable of learning a skill or profession?

    At least under free market capitalism the unskilled stand a chance at picking up some skills. Freedom means the freedom to learn as well as the freedom to do nothing.
     
  31. Unread #156 - Apr 23, 2008 at 6:35 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Hey Sythe. Sorry to spam, however I believe I've been IP banned/ blocked. Mozilla says "This connection has timed out". According to the sticky in the Dispute Forum, it means I've been blocked. I did send an e-mail to the suggested email, yet last time I did that it took forever. I just assumed this would be the fastest method.

    Thanks. =)
     
  33. Unread #157 - Apr 23, 2008 at 6:54 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    I think you misunderstand. It is not my responsiblity as an individual to care about or pay for the millions of miserable fuckers strutting around in the wide world. Something often misunderstood by socialists is the unlimited capacity for population expansion. If you give someone an assured income of say 500 dollars a week, for doing little or no work, then before long they will very likely have a large family, at which point you return to the original problem of not enough resources per head of population.

    The only solution is to disregard this fallacious dealing out of 'responsibility for the incapable' and allowing people, who are by their nature autonomous' the freedom and independence to pursue their own goals as their free-will and conscience demands of them.

    All socialists advocate the giving of other people's money. Only individualists advocate freedom of choice and the giving of their own money voluntarily. Only individualists are charitable. Collectivists are thieves, bordering on the advocation of slavery (the capable enslaved to the incapable).



    It is entirely different to that. Individualists do not advocate killing anyone, we just do not take direct responsibility for anyone else unless that is our individual decision. If you feel so strongly about the weak and retarded then setup a private charity, out of your own pocket, and help them, instead of attempting to steal funds that don't belong to you from people who work harder than you.


    Again, individualists do not advocate killing off retards. Only collectivists advocate anything "for the greater good".

    And who is to determine who is genuinely unable to work and who is just lazy? Do you trust the government to make this decision? Because historically they have made it poorly. If you abolish taxation and leave this task up to private charities then at least the money will get to where its needed, with the added bonus that it is real charity and not robbinhood-syndrome theft.
     
  35. Unread #158 - Apr 23, 2008 at 6:58 PM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    That is exactly the way it should be. Those with skills should progress further in life than people who are incapable of learning skills or are not incapable, but in fact to lazy to learn or apply them. It is like being forced to give charity, like some of these big celebrity's who have all the wealth in the world, such as athlete's. They are forced to give away money. They earned it by being better than the one next to them, it is completely their decision.
     
  37. Unread #159 - Apr 30, 2008 at 4:06 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    Well yes, I agree that Communism and Socialism both fail, though who will control whether society will want to grasp Anarcho-Capitalism. From my perspective, society is reluctant to willingly change. Who would force the change, as apparently everything has to be agreed on by both parties.

    If i've said something incredibly idiotic I apologise, though I'm just trying to clarify some aspects of Anarcho-Capitalism I don't fully understand.

    Just a question, Australia: Socialist or Capitalist?
     
  39. Unread #160 - Apr 30, 2008 at 5:11 AM
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    Why Socialism (and Communism) Fails and why our society is being destroyed

    People like change (when it appears to be fixing problems), they are just so misinformed they often go the wrong way.

    Well the word 'capitalist' has two definitions. The definition given to it by marxists, which is actually incorrect, and the definition given to it by free marketeers, which is the correct and proper definition.

    Australia is in what could be called a form of state socialism at the moment. It is interesting to note that the 10 planks of communism are in effect here.

    Australian markets are certainly not free. The money is fiat and inflationary. Exports and imports are limited. Wages are set by the government. Land is restricted and zoned by government. Water is rationed, banks controlled, mining licensed. A term to describe this broken system I agree with is: keynesian inflationism.

    There are elements of our economy which are socialist. Those are the public sector elements -- and, unsurprisingly, the least productive and most wasteful. Public education, transport, health, water, roads, and other services are all funded through taxation, and are all wasteful monopolies which exist independently of the market, consuming resources without gain. These services are substandard and often result in rationing because of the ignorance of those who run them to the mechanics of supply and demand.
     
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