Change this right to vanish crap.

I got some experience with the law because of my work experience and I can say this is correct. Sythe should delete information when requested or eventually face charges up to 20 million €.

To add to the above sentence. Dutchies can file their complaints here: Privacyklacht indienen. The FAQ even specifically specifies "when a company does not delete your information when requested, you can file a complaint".

 

Coulda sworn we had a running suggestion already about this but I can't find it in Suggestions, Approved, or Denied archives. Did someone delete the thread entirely?

Anyway, the last things that were said on the topic that I remember is that we want to be able to delete posts on locked threads and delete quoted content. This doesn't hinder staff's ability to check what you posted. So you are not actually vanishing, just removing content from PUBLIC view, which I don't see why we need the public being able to view only locked or quoted posts when they can't view regular deleted posts.

Strong support on making this edit because in my eyes, these last two things, locked and quoted posts, are just leftovers of this suggestion already being approved. We can already delete posts, just not these pesky bits left behind.

 

I'm not an expert on this so I'm probably wrong to some extent, However Sythe isn't under any obligation to follow European laws unless the owner is living in Europe and/or the web servers are hosted in Europe. Yes Technically a suit can be filed by a resident in Europe but depending on the Hosts and Owners location it really holds no merit.

If you really don't want to be here just leave and don't come back. Out of sight, Out of mind.

 

This is incorrect. When the data concerns European residents the law is applicable, no matter where the organization is located. This was discussed before in regards to Facebook.

 

Yes, Laws "Apply" but can it be enforced? If the court and country has no jurisdiction in said countries there is little they can do to enforce them.

Example, Snowden, Broke laws in the United states, Went to russia, We demanded Russia to follow our laws and turn him in. How exactly did that work out?

There are lot of examples, TPB and many Warez/Hacking sites that have been sued countless times and "taken down" and brought right back up a day later. The facebook example you give is because Facebook is a United States company and we for the most part support each other when it comes to laws. It all depends largely on Country of the Web Host and the Owner of the Website.

 

Reform the "Right to Vanish" policy

I changed my suggestion from "delete to "hide" because I saw that as a better chance of getting through compared to deleting. Regardless Richard's elected to ignore it or just deny any request made to do this. I've spoken to numerous staff and while the majority agree, Richard just "vetos" any discussion or possible change on it.

I recommend having a read through the thread above, obviously I speak quite strongly about my wish to "vanish", however I do want it to be done for everyone who deserves it. Specifically the part about staff being able to quietly delete any of their information or a pal's if they request it,

This was originally put in place because staff were fed up of people getting all their info deleted before committing some scam or blackhat activity and they've got all their info deleted and disappeared into the sunset. However it is pretty clear some users (such as myself) have been on the site for years and what info they may want removed isn't really "worth" anything to the staff, a lot of isn't even related to the market or anything to do with trust / scams. You cannot simply say "well you shouldn't have posted that in the first place" when information anyone wants removed was posted in the past and is likely when that user was younger and more naive / didn't think about the future when this information would still be there.

Edit: Also remember that this isn't the early 2010s anymore, scammers know how a ban evader gets caught. There are countless VPNs now and scammers know not to use the same IP or email address if they return to the site on another account, right to vanish may have made sense years ago but in this day and age it just isn't that effective any more, any scammer on here would have long since ditched their identity and chosen a new name / profile to go ahead with.

 

I understand why they want to keep posts. First off just like you said, people who are scamming can use this to their advantage so keeping it provides records to keep members safe. Also from a business standpoint, Having members, Posts, Thread counts is really good for a forum and increases it's value. When they're deleted it also deletes the count.

Personally I think being able to hide posts is a valid option, But even if staff doesn't agree and won't add this option what stops you from going back and just Editing all of the posts you want to deleted? Sure the information will still be there but to the majority of the members on the site they'll see the new message instead of what ever was hidden.

 

I added an extra few lines after you quoted.

Yes years ago this would have made sense, but it is so easy today to create a new email, Skype, hop on a new VPN etc; any scammer from years ago would have ditched their identity by now and taken up a new name to avoid being caught as a ban evader.

Business standpoint... the site's been going since 2005 (the forum only goes back to 2007 though due to an incident that year). I'm sure a few posts disappearing isn't going to do anything to impact it. Sythe makes money from the market, I would imagine the majority of content being removed would be community-based so it wouldn't be worth anything.

Finally of course you can edit your posts, but posts stuck in a locked thread or users that have quoted you have since been banned / gone inactive / refuse to remove the quote you are helpless against (your only option currently is to become a staff member and quietly remove it yourself at some point or get on a staff member's good side and get them to do it for you "because you really need it".

 

I agree, All of your points are valid. I was just expressing on why they may want to keep them. Staff might have other reasons. If it was me personally I would allow people to hide/delete posts as needed, I read the first post to the other thread and it had a lot of valid points as well. I've helped manage a different type of forum with more daily users than Sythe is getting and the volume of reports we would get was just unreal. That could be one of the reasons they don't allow deleting posts as it adds extra work for them to do. I guess if staff continues to have a firm stance on this issue the best thing we can do moving forward is watch what we post and be sure that nothing we share connects you to your normal life.

All in all I support what what you've said in this post and the other. We should be able to remove posts.

 

@Sythe

Looks like this entire suggestion does not matter about community opinion since their using the new law to justify its changing.

Assuming you'd be the only one to ultimately respond/change this if it was to be.

 

To be honest it should not even require some real-world law getting brought in for Richard's hand to be forced to change this rule, it's pretty clear it is unfair / unnecessary on the genuine users.

 

This is how google has been doing it for a while now, ever since a high court ruled that EU users have this right to delete any search results that come up under their name.

EU Privacy Removal

I am not a lawyer, but I would tend to agree with @Sythe in this instance. Since this site is not incorporated in the EU, and nor does it store any of its data in the EU, then this law is not applicable in this instance.

If you traveled to another country - you are not protected by your laws, only by the laws in the country you are going to. Because of this analogy, I would find it hard to say that just because you are from the EU, you gain rights on this site that other users don't have (such as myself from the US). You are restricted by the laws of where this company is operating.

A great example would be OSBot. When I reported them & @Maldesto for leaking my data, I did and complained under the laws in which company was incorporated in the Netherlands I believe, which is what their TOS referenced and was under the direction of.

 

Can this be added to the rules or something if you will carry out this request for users in Europe? Also, how would you actually verify someone is from Europe? A fake ID / fake IP in Europe is way too easy to do.

I'd also like to know if it will be a case of "hiding" or actually "deleted". Plus how much would actually be removed? An account deletion sure but what about all the posts / quoted posts etc;

I never intended for things to go as far as quoting real-world laws to get "right to vanish" reversed Richard but it's quite obvious in this day and age it is just not effective now, scammers know anything they post will be retained so they simply won't post anything "valuable" to the staff, which just leaves out the genuine users who are unfairly caught up in all of this.