Clarity on Runescape Account Recoveries

I think we should have some clarity on what the exact policies are regarding Account Recoveries. Looking at the incident between IHQ & Ruben Eason I think we need some clear clarification about what to do about/against these kinds of situations.

For the people who don't know what the fuss between IHQ & Ruben was about let me explain in short. Probemas had an account (max main) he sold to a Sythe user. That Sythe user was re-selling it for a low price including in his thread that he bought the account from Probemas. Eventually IHQ ended up buying it and after that Ruben bought it from IHQ and started renting out the max main.

In this case Probemas has to recover the account no matter what, but what I have heard is that after a few recoveries, the lastest recovery didn't seem to work.

I want to avoid situations in which sold accounts are getting abused in a massive way which result into un-recoverable accounts. Because if you think about it, it seems very unlikely that Jagex will not start asking questions after multiple re-covery attempts per x amount of months. We also have no proof that you can always UNLIMITED re-cover your account.

Am I allowed to mention in my T.O.S. that the account may not be re-sold and than if it does get re-sold I am not hold responsible for recoveries. Me personally would find it very annoying if I had to keep recovering accounts for someone who is not even my customer.

What is the exact Rules/Guidelines for when an account owner needs to recover the account. Because if an account gets whored out, and Jagex decides that to many recoveries have been done on the account and you won't be able to get it back, you'd still need to end up refunding a random user who you didn't even do business with? Or ?

 

The rules are clear, however Probemas didn't actually own this account and lied about the ownership of it putting us here. I'm glad you took the time to read the thread in it's entirety. You run the risk of constantly having to help with the account as it is your account and if it's not something you want to do, don't sell it.

 

I do support some form of TOS/Rule that says after X amount of sales/time elapsed a recovery can't be guaranteed.

 

Also, Shin told me he'd be working on a rule regarding this and how it should work so it's very clear and not confusing.

 

It's already clear cut for the most part. It was the continuous re-selling of the account that caused confusion in that particular situation. I wouldn't mind more clarity if need be though.

 

The only thing which is clear, is that the owner of the account always has to be able to recover accounts.

And indeed more clarification would be nice, because as far as I know everyone now is just guessing on what we can or can't do.

Interested to see if we can get a confirm which makes us allowed that after x amount of re-sells you can't guarantee recoveries like IHQ mentioned above.

 

Thing is, account sales cause little to no problems. Account RESALES are the problem.
You want to make the whole account sales market riskier and more easily to be abused just to make resales safer ?
I don't think many people would be selling accounts in the first place if they knew they had to recover them no matter what happens or else refund. A smart person could easily make it so the seller gets tired of recovering or maybe even to be unable to recover it just to get the money back? I know this is runescape and not real world, but we could follow some real world logics here too, can't we ?
Also, there is a chance that after many recoveries (when the account changes a lot of hands) they will ban the account instead of returning it to the OO (when the OO tries to recover it).
With resales there's also the problem how can you know who do you return the account to ? (A sells to B, B sells to C, B tells the OO that the account got locked or he lost it or w/e, the OO doesn't know that it was resold to C and recovers it back for B)
There's probably many more issues that arise with resales.

 

In this scenario, we are assuming that the person that rented the acc from the owner, changes the password?
Wouldnt the Email recovery system stop this person from changing the password? And even if they did change the password, with your email set on it, you'd be able to recover with the email, right?
I am confused, sorry. Looking for explaination.

 

Not sure to who you are talking, because I think I made it clear that I would love to make re-sales a no go at all?

 

IMO you should be allowed to state that if the account is resold "X" times, you will no longer take full responsibility if the appeals you send are denied.

 

There isn't a reasonable amount of incidents (if any) that align with the theory of being unable to recover after an account has been resold/passed along x number of times. It would be stupid to revise the ruling to support a baseless theory.

Easy way to scam someone. Recover an account and take no blame? Too easy.

 

I'm looking for past cases to draw from, but I don't think I've seen a case like this in over a year. That being said, I don't think it's exactly necessary create a rule to set in stone for something that happens so seldom.

Preventing account re-sales is simply impossible. People may lie that it's their account, or people may simply just not care. From another angle, say a user buys an account. They're honest, so if a rule is in place, they will respect it. They're done with RuneScape, or at least that account. Now, they can't sell it here on Sythe. That means they must either sell it back to the original owner, or just let it rot. Is that really a healthy compromise?

Referencing how probemas "lied" about the account being his, I don't think he lied at all. Divica, won, Bogla, and several other prominent members of the goldselling community have had accounts created and/or worked on by their workers for the purpose of either renting or resale. By saying the account is their's, they are assuming responsibility for the account (or saying the account is within the scope of their control). Considering that other websites/goldselling companies do this as well, it's certainly hard to blame probemas for saying that; he is just the one who got caught in a bad situation.

 

I still think it's something that needs clarification on as in what kind of situation we can expect certain things required from the account seller. Because now if I would sell an account, I have absolutely no idea what I have to do or what I can choose not to do, what I can or can't allow etc. Not saying we need to put every detail written in stone, but atleast some cases that happend in the past and name the things expected from the account seller to be fixed/refunded/recovering the account etc.

 

I find it ridiculous if Probemas has to pay a dime to anyone because they recycled the account so many times he is unable to recover it for the owner if he can prove that's the case. This means he did all that he could and did nothing wrong, but is somehow liable because people decided to whore the account around? Nah. I'm personally not down with that. In what way is this his fault?

Also there's the concern that someone figures out the formula to causing the account to not be recoverable by the original owner and starting a new line of scamming account sellers.

I think TOS should be allowed that say after X amount of resales the original owner is no longer liable if the recovery process fails, providing screenshots. If they don't want the original owner recovering and claiming no liability, don't exceed the resale number or don't buy it.

 

Sounds like a really complicated situation. I think everyone knows there is risk involved in account selling, but by selling an account I think you should be responsible for that account.

Regarding the issue of accounts being sold X amount of times; If you're re-selling the account you're putting your own reputation on the line and trusting that if anything happens, you will be able to recover the account.

It's really difficult to say as a whole considering if the account does get recovered and there were 3-4 previous owners, who can you really pin it on? I suppose this is where it falls back to the original owner.

I was leaning towards the current seller taking responsibility for selling an account, but now I guess the only thing that really makes sense is the Original owner due to the fact they are the only one who can ALWAYS recover. Tricky situation.

EDIT: I'm an idiot.

 

Its case-by-case because a firm ruling is hard to decide on.

RuneScape Account Recovery Procedure

 

There is another issue also with accounts being sold with no registered email - buyers prefer this as it's difficult for the OO to recover it back from them once they've bought it - since with no email attached, there will only of ever been 1 password set on the account etc.

So adding that factor into it; it can be very difficult if almost impossible for the OO in some cases to recover, yet he's liable in the event of a re-sale? kind of ludicrous

 

Dont want to hijack this thread, but could we also have clarity @Roary @Snail on the following scenario.

User A sells account to user B
User B Sells account to User C
User C gets hacked via virus etc or someone else has access to his email (User C's to blame for lack of security)

Should User B or A be liable to refund if they are unable to recover the account for User C?

 

C would report B and B would then report A. Usually.

 

Even though it's C's fault the account is no longer in their possession?