Israel versus Palestinians

>As we all know, there has never been a "Palestinian" people or nation-state in the history of this entire planet

Can you be any more wrong???

>As we all know, there are no laws inhibiting the civil rights of non-Jews in Israel, although some people would like to pretend there are, not a single law can be cited.

what is universal human rights??????

>Seeing as there are Arab Muslim CO's in the IDF, I think that example speaks for itself. (Israel is apartheid claims)

Israeli Jews treat Israeli Non-Jews in the IDF like a bag of shit just because they dont believe in Judaism.

>... should probably draw for you is that of the American Indian War. Based off principle, there was no wrongdoing. Why? Because the principle being that all tribes were already at war with each other, conquering each other for land and resources.

no wrong doing? LOL OMG American colonists used Manifest Destiny. "GOD told me so that the US is MUH LAND!" That's the same exact excuse why (Jewish) Israelis are bombing their people/neighbors and taking their land & homes.

>What we did to them is no different than what they were already doing to each other,

" I'm God's Chosen People, I can do wuteva i want!"

>those who complain that we should give them land have nothing to support their stance, as principle reigns supreme.

" I'm God's chosen people, i'm allowed to be arrogant and im cleansing you heathens hurka durka durka"

Palestinians were caught between the Israeli-Arab conflict (1948-49), thave been in the land, that is now known as Israel, for a long time.

 

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/may02_index.php?l=1








For the above links: Replace the * asterisk with the letter "u"

" God told me to go my homeland (Israel) because it's muh right. " And a bunch of Zionist propaganda telling people to go to Israel and make it into a full Jewish State. I would be pissed too when my plan was rejected, but the jewish was. Now Israel makes weapons, hides behind a fence, treats non-jewish israelis badly (kicking out of their homes), and participates in arms & trade with Saudi Arabia (best friends with the royals who give no shit about the palis), Germany, US, and Russia.

 

Why didn't you refute it then? I guess your opinion is above legitimate facts?

Care to quote Israeli law that inhibits human/civil rights in Israel? No one has provided any such laws.

If you can find me even ONE law that has parallels between Nazi Germany's Nuremberg Laws, I will concede to Israel discriminating and inhibiting the rights of non-Jews. All you have to do is find one, that's it.

Evidence exactly?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGv9mym3Sqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm62txl7ysA - this one is quite interesting, pretty contradictory to your claims.

What's different between Native tribal warfare for land, resources and the belongings of neighboring tribes and what the colonists did? Oh, right, no difference. Conquest is conquest. Principle.

Quote me one time where I used this argument.

Again, quote me.

Lets bring it back around to the definition of Palestine.

I hope you realize the link you provided to the history of Palestine (the Levant) actually completely contradicts everything you stand for. It actually does a very good job of painting the picture of how "Palestine" applies only to a region, not a specific peoples or nation-state. If there were, you'd be able to provide me with a list of Palestinian leaders, past currency, a capital, among other things in relation to a people/culture.

This is getting kind of boring reiterating and refuting the same thing over and over.

I want you to read this

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpo...tion of establishment of state of israel.aspx

"THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions."

Find me something of similarity in an Arab state that was formed as a result of the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire.

I hope you know non-Jews serve on the Supreme Court, IDF, Knesset and as teachers, the list goes on and on. Nothing you can bring forth will contradict any of the things i've said, but you can try of course.

E: Before I forget.

Thank you for providing this piece of information. It's good to point out that prior to the 1967 war, the Jews had remained within their allotted partition with zero attempts to take anyone's land. After the Six Day War of course this changed, as Israel's Arab neighbors attempted to completely annihilate Israel.

Can you find me any examples where the Israeli government (not rogue gangs like you like to use) attempted to completely destroy a neighboring Arab nation? Israel captured the entire Sinai from Egypt in the Six Day War. In reality, they could have taken all of Egypt if they really wanted to. However, Israel is the humane and civilized entity, and that isn't how it ended. How it did come full-circle is decades later when Israel gave Egypt back the entire Sinai in return for peace and recognition. Egypt complied, and as an unfortunate result of Egypt being the first Arab state to recognize Israel, their President was assassinated by radical Muslims.

I could go on, but I know you'll just ignore 3/4 of what i've said while you blabber on about the same things i've already addressed.

 

You're using Propaganda.

I don't know why you get the idea where Native Americans tribes were constantly At War with each other when it's not true. I don't think you have no idea how many native american cultures.

May i also add the Massacre at Wounded Knee

May I also add, The English (purposely used a bioweapon small pox and gave it to he indians) and French trained and armed the native american tribes, much like how the US is arming and funding Israel.

What is pre-history? idk if you bothered using my jesusf*ck me links but i guess. Palestine lived well with others In the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah 700 BCE. http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/may02_index.php?l=1

You're asking me the impossible.

."

z

Keep telling yourself that. Palestinians are more jewish than the European Jews that immigrated to Israel in 1948.

Jews fought for Israel includes the non jews and the whole melting pot).

This Land is Mine- Israeli version https://www.youtube.com/embed/-evIyrrjTTY
-Characters in the video: http://blog.ninapaley.com/2012/10/01/this-land-is-mine/

 

And in true Fakestinian fashion, you pull the "that's propaganda" card. Utterly hysterical. What a waste of time you are.

http://www.lagrange.edu/resources/pdf/citations08/culturalaspectsofwarfare.pdf
http://www.ushistory.org/us/1.asp "Despite myths to the contrary, not all Native Americans were peaceful. Like Europe, the American continent faced tribal warfare that sometimes led to human and cultural destruction."
http://www.amazon.com/American-Indigenous-Warfare-Ritual-Violence/dp/0816530386
http://library.ndsu.edu/exhibits/text/indians/dakotas.html

It can go on and on with mentions of tribal warfare. Don't act like it didn't happen, don't act as if i'm claiming every single tribe was somehow at war. http://www.emersonkent.com/images/indian_tribes.jpg tribal land changed all the time.

Maybe I should clarify next time since you like to grasp for straws.

And your point is exactly? I know you'd like to pretend as if there's a parallel between the Israeli wars of 1948, 1967 and 1973 and what the US did to the natives, but there is none.

Palestine lived well with... what? Do you not understand how contradictory that statement is when further down you tell me you can't provide a list of Palestinian leaders. PALESTINE is a regional name, it doesn't apply to a specific peoples. That's why I asked you, who is a "Palestinian" leader.

Exactly. But just above this, you further the notion that "Palestinians" are a real peoples. Give me the name of ONE "Palestinian" leader.

So how "Jewish" someone is is now based off region? That's interesting, i've never heard of that. Let me guess, if I poke and prod enough, you'll start throwing around the Khazar theory. Am I right?

English please?

Allow me to point out the gross inaccuracy.

"British
The British formed alliances with Arabs, then occupied Palestine. This cartoon is an oversimplification, and uses this British caricature as a stand-in for Europeans in general.

Palestinian

Palestinian
The British occupied this guy’s land, only to leave it to a vast influx of…."

So overnight, those who are generalized as "Arabs" then somehow became "Palestinian." Magically. Interesting.

The region has quite literally never seen a period in which it wasn't under the control of some imperialistic empire. The last being the Ottoman Turks. The Arabs in Gaza pretend that "their" land was stolen, when the fact of the matter is it was under Ottoman control for the last several centuries. If we're going to rewind everything, are you going to include Jordan in the return of land? If you don't include all of Jordan, it just proves that you're biased.

I'm also still waiting for you to refute everything else i've said where you claimed I was wrong, but you provided nothing to back your words.

Also, the last part. I'm still waiting for you to quote where I used that exact stance as an argument.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-Electio...urt-Judge-to-oversee-Israeli-elections-384078

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rana_Raslan Arab Miss Israel winner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PwXAoLe1Nc female Arab IDF commander

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=5727 Muslim Major in the IDF

Just to put into perspective how asinine your claims are.

So it's very clear. You're obviously alluding to "Palestinians" being an actual unique peoples. Now I want you to stop contradicting yourself and give me the name of just a SINGLE historic "Palestinian" leader.

For good measure

I hope you realize that your very first post was pretty much your death knell. What you referenced was a correct definition of the name Palestine and its application. It is only a regional name. Your own contradiction speaks for me. Thanks.

 

You are misinterpreting their claim. The Palestinians lived there more recently than the large Jewish population lived there. They are not saying it has been their land since the beginning of time. The exact same argument that you are making could be used against the United States, Canada, Australia just to name a few. It is nonsensical.

 

Alluding to the "well the US isn't XXXX number of years old!" You don't get it, and I don't think you're even paying attention to "Palestinian" claim. "Palestinian" fanatics claim "their" "country" was stolen from them, when the fact of the matter it was under Ottoman Turkish control for the last several centuries, and before that a litany of other foreign imperialistic empires. The Arabization of the ME happened well after the greater majority of Jews were expelled from their homeland. For the last two millennia the Jews have been looking to return to it. Arab claim comes nowhere close to the historic/cultural ties to any part of the Levant.

Ex: What is the Al-Aqsa Mosque built on top of? What former structure.

I think this concludes your attempt at debating this topic, if not, feel free to address my above questions in my above posts.

 

You are just a racist. This is clear now. It was the Palestinians country because they had been living there for generations, regardless of what they had been called. Ultimately, I do not believe that this history really matters all that much in terms of what is happening today where Israel keeps millions of people in concentration camps, starves them, kills them indiscriminately and continues to force people out of their homes for Jewish settlers. This is the exact policy that the United States used against the Indians. It was terrible then and it is terrible now.

 

"What is in a name?" Everything, when in relation to a specific peoples and how the name has been historically applied. Find me historic text denoting a "Palestinian" people.

Really, is that so?

http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/littman_unhrc_wupj_17jul03.pdf

"This 1947 Partition Plan was categorically refused by all the Arab League States"

"On 24 November 1947, when addressing the Political Committee of the UN General
Assembly, Egyptian delegate Heykal Pasha warned about the Partition Plan for Palestine: “The
United Nations (...) should not lose sight of the fact that the proposed solution might endanger a
million Jews living in the Muslim countries. (...) If the United Nations decides to partition Palestine,
it might be responsible for very grave disorders and for the massacre of a large number of Jews (...)
if a Jewish state were established, nobody could prevent disorders. Riots would spread through all
the Arab states and might lead to a war between the two races.”

"Already in Iraq (1936, and especially the Baghdad farhud of 1941), Syria (1944, 1945), Egypt
and Libya (1945), and Aden (1947), murderous attacks had killed and wounded thousands. All these
events occurred before Israel’s independence. Here is a description from the official first-hand report
in 1945 by Tripoli’s Jewish community president Zachino Habib on what happened to Libyan Jews
in Tripoli, Zanzur, Zawiya, Casabat, Zitlin on 4-5 Nov. 1945: “The Arabs attacked Jews in obedience
to mysterious orders. Their outburst of bestial violence had no plausible motive. For fifty hours they
hunted men down, attacked houses and shops, killed men, women, old and young, horribly tortured
and dismembered Jews isolated in the interior.... In order to carry out the slaughter, the attackers
used various weapons: knives, daggers, sticks, clubs, iron bars, revolvers, and even hand grenades.”

"9. In 1945 about 140,000 Jews lived in Iraq; 60,000 in Yemen and Aden; 35,000 in Syria; 5,000
in Lebanon; 90,000 in Egypt; 40,000 in Libya; 150,000 in Algeria; 120,000 in Tunisia; 300,000 in
Morocco, including Tangiers – a total of roughly 940,000 (and approximately 200,000 more in
Iran and Turkey). Of these indigenous communities, less than 50,000 Jews remain today – and in
the Arab world their number is barely 5,000, one-half of one percent of the overall total at the end
of the Second World War. "

"11. About half of Israel's 5.2 million Jews — from a population of about 6.5 million, of whom
roughly 20% are Arab, Druze, and Bedouin Israelis — is composed of these forgotten refugees and
their descendants, who received no humanitarian aid from the United Nations and did not ask for it. It
was Israel alone, with the help of Jewish communities just emerging from the Shoah, which achieved
their humanitarian survival and integration into a nascent society. "

And here's the kicker

"12. No parallel political commitment was made for the integration of the less numerous
Arab refugees from Palestine (numbering about 550,000 in 1949, although an inexact figure of
750,000 and above is often claimed – rising to 4 or even 6 million today in the world’s media). The
Arab League countries cover 15 million km2 — about 10% of the world's land surface — and many
States possess immense oil and gas reserves, yet little was done to alleviate the plight of their Arab
brethren"

http://www.cbs.gov.il/statistical/arabju.pdf

You also completely and utterly 100% deny that the Arab population has been growing, essentially claiming that MILLIONS are being murdered... give me a break, seriously.

You have not provided a single source to back up your claims, not even one.

Are you going to continue sitting there rambling off utter nonsense, or actually post facts?

 

This post literally says nothing. Do not put words in my mouse, especially ones that have absolutely no meaning. The Arab population has gone up which means millions have been murdered? What does that even mean? You are just stringing words together without a single thought. Nothing in this post is relevant to mine in any way. You can't just post random copy pasted words from ancient sources and expect them to make sense or being a real debate.

 

As opposed to your shit-posting.

Are you failing to comprehend what you even said prior to my post? You claimed millions of Arabs had been murdered, did you not?

Can you see it now? I hope you realize that Israel's Arab population is 1.6 MILLION. Now please, give me even just one example of where Israel is supposedly killing "millions" of Arabs. You want an example of where tens-of-thousands of Arabs are being killed as we speak?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/07/us-mideast-crisis-toll-idUSKBN0LB0DY20150207

Yet I highly doubt you're kicking and screaming over the Syrians being killed right now. Biased as ever.

Coming from the guy who just claimed Israel killed millions of Arabs... right.

You might want to scroll back up and re-read.

Because doing nothing but shit-posting from the very get-go is obviously more valid than my links to UN/League of Nations reports. Okay. lol i'd report your posts for being spam and just beyond utter nonsense, but you're a prime example of how propaganda has completely and utterly melted your brain.

 

You are legitimately retarded. I did not say that Israel has killed millions of people. The quote you pulled out proves that I did not say that. You are either not reading what I am saying or purposely lying about it in order to push your racist agenda.

 

So does Israel keep millions of people in imaginary camps? Do they starve this imaginary people? And do they kill this imaginary people you're referring to?

Just for better emphasis on the definition of "shit-posting" in a debate thread.

 

These*, these*.

There is an illegal blockade of the Gaza strip. The people are not allowed in or out. They can not get the building supplies they need. When aid workers try to cross the illegal blockade Israel boards the boat and kills them. If they go too close to the border, Israel shoots them. If a wanted person is in a house, they bomb they regardless of how many people the kill. When they enter on foot, Israeli solider use children as human shields. The Gaza strip is a concentration camp and the people living there are real. There is no conspiracy as you think.

 

Honestly - this is all irrelevant because as the holy prophet said, and as his apostles recorded in Hadith:

Laa ilaaha illalaah, Mohamed ar-Rasool Allah - let's break down what this means.

Laa ilaaha illalaah - There is absolutely no deity worthy of worship except Allah
Mohamed ar-Rasool Allah - Mohamed (saws) is the Messenger of Allah.

Now that that is said and done, you can continue your petty bickering but I already know how it will end in the long run. ^_^

 

Yup. Keep it civilized guys. Don't want to lock this.

 

More ad hominem, but I could play that game also if I were desperate...

Actually they are, that's why checkpoints exist. The only country that has allowed absolutely no border crossing is Egypt. Egypt has gone to such great lengths as to completely bulldoze entire towns in Gaza.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/30/world/middleeast/egypt-sinai-peninsula-gaza-buffer-zone.html?_r=0

I wonder if your same level of bias you have towards Israel would be the same towards Egypt?

http://www.worldtribune.com/2014/12/22/hamas-said-using-cement-steel-un-aid-repair-attack-tunnels/

Plenty of aid makes it into Gaza through Israeli crossings, and much of the aid for rebuilding is used by Hamas for their war effort.

The "illegal blockade" you're referring to is a half-truth. Checkpoints and the Naval blockade wouldn't have to exist if Hamas renounced their violent charter and recognized Israel. This was what was supposed to happen in 2006 when they were elected. Did that happen? No. As a result, you have the Naval blockade to stop arms smuggling and the checkpoints to hopefully stop the wack-jobs from getting into Israel.

Q. Would there be any military action on Israel's behalf if Hamas ceased to exist? (obviously the answer is no)

Indiscriminately? No. With plenty of warning, but feel free to find me an overwhelming number of cases in which this happens, because it doesn't.

Backed by what evidence? The last military engagement last summer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69icTMgIjlw

I'll just use this one example of how Israel gave more than enough warning for civilians to make their exit. Then again, why are you complaining about civilian casualties when a large portion of Gaza is rural? Hamas used urban areas to conduct military operations, putting their own people at risk. The above video is a single example of the many on how Israel went to great lengths in avoidance of civilian casualties.

Ever noticed how Israel has an Iron Dome to protect its civilians? While Hamas operates in urban areas, hiding behind its civilians. That's the big difference between the IDF and Hamas. Are you also aware that on many occasions Hamas' own rockets landed in Gaza? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YxGkOTEqRs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSDF8UM1ofY

Is that so?

http://foa.org.uk/news/gaza-to-refuse-import-of-fruit-from-israel
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/07/26/official-israel-leans-toward-extending-gaza-truce/
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/22/world/middleeast/22mideast.html

Oh, here's a funny one.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/08/gaza-first-five-star-hotel

Failing to understand how this is even slightly relevant to the topic or the above poster's shit-posting.

 

Mainly because people buy into this https://youtu.be/JrbxbTulzNo kind of propaganda. "The art of photo deception." Hence, we now have what's called "Pallywood."

IE: If anything bad happens, it's Israel's fault.

Here's a good example.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/02/2...ng-israel-flooded-gaza-areas-by-opening-dams/

Flooding occurred recently in Gaza and as expected, Israel was blamed. They claimed they opened a dam in an act of aggression. Funny part is, no dam existed, and the online campaign of people buying into the propaganda quickly diffused.

That's just a single example among many.

 

You are either stupid or a liar. I expect both. Egypt destroyed towns IN ITS OWN COUNTRY. It did NOTHING TO GAZA. Can you even fucking read?

Of course it does. The only way Gaza is able to survive is through smuggling through those tunnels. Of course people support them and want them built because its the only way that they can get building supplies and other essential things that Israel illegally prevents them from getting. If you can't put a roof over your head of course you are going to support the group that enables you to do so.

Yes they would. Israel refuses to do anything unless they can guarantee security. If their neighbors are weak then they can't have it because of terrorists. If their neighbors flourish and their people become better off then their militaries become a threat. Israel has a super convenient position that basically means no matter what happens they can pull the security card and abuse and oppress whoever they want because "the holocaust".

Bombing homes of people that they know civilians are in to kill one person is pretty indiscriminate.

So because Hamas kills kids, Israel can kill kids? So Hitler is gassing Jews so we can gas Japs?

Wait. You defend Israel using human shields by saying they protect their own citizens? So you just admitted to being a racist bastard that values Jewish lives more than Arab ones.

I love how you defend Israel by quoting an article that says they will allow some imports... Right they will only starve millions of civilians "some". Right, thats great. At least they don't kill them... Oh wait. They do that too. At least these civilians can find success elsewhere.... Oh wait they can't leave... Right because Israel won't let them.

 

Do you know the geographical location of Rafah? I take it you don't.

If you can find me one example of them smuggling anything other than weapons through the tunnels I will concede to your asinine claim.

http://www.military.com/video/opera...s-weapons-found-in-gaza-tunnel/3717192974001/

Are you ever going to post links to support a single claim of yours?

I hope you know that I purposely asked that question because it's set up for failure?

An example of how your opposition is false.

Egypt. Egypt and Israel made peace in the late 70's with the return of the entire Sinai back into Egyptian hands. President Anwar Sadat was actually later assassinated by militant Muslims for this. It made Egypt the first Arab nation to recognize Israel and follow through with a formal peace treaty. Since then, there have been no military engagements between Egypt and Israel. In fact, Israel and Egypt work together, and share similar ideals in combating militant/radical Islam.

The same can be said about Jordan. In the mid 90's Israel and Jordan made peace. This resulted in slow but steady relationship building between the two nations.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/26/us-mideast-economy-water-idUSKBN0LU23Z20150226

Currently, Jordan and Israel are actually working together on a pipeline that will link the Red Sea to the Dead Sea.

Where exactly is this supposed military action when peace has been achieved? Nowhere. Your claims are now rendered false, again.

Your evidence to back up your claims is what exactly?... I guess this is where I bring out the big guns. (flex)

https://youtu.be/3-GVYrZ7rSw "Hamas TV: Dead Gaza civilians privileged to have died this way"
https://youtu.be/ocZKe0hmmBI "Hamas spokesman: We are not afraid of Israel because we love death"
https://youtu.be/Nu-e5qWXx-k "Helsingin Sanomat correspondant admits hamas launched rockets from shifa hospital"
https://youtu.be/yoK9YL6D5RE - Leaflets warning Arabs in Gaza. (I thought it was indiscriminate?)
http://www.inquisitr.com/1342806/gaza-israel-warns-targets-by-sms-and-phone-to-leave-before-bombing/ --- mass text messages

So please explain to me how it's "indiscriminate" when civilians are constantly warned of impending strikes. Care to explain?

Grasping for straws much are we?

Where did I make such a claim? Did I say the Iron Dome somehow only protects Jews? News flash: Israel has over a million Arab citizens. You fail to understand what i'm saying. Israel is not operating in urban environments, hiding behind its civilians in avoidance of its own casualties. Hamas however, does. It has already been reported that Hamas used schools, mosques and hospitals.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...weapons-inside-hospitals-mosques-and-schools/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/04/un-dragged-conflict-israel-hamas-gaza

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/15/despite-war-israel-continues-vast-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza/
http://www.quora.com/Why-does-Israel-continue-to-send-tons-of-food-aid-to-Gaza-when-under-attack

Are you even mildly aware of the amount of aid Israel allows through its crossings into Gaza?

Are you also aware that Israel provides Gaza with electricity?

Ever notice how i'm the only one providing links here? All the while you're just rambling on... oh well, it helps those who are neutral on this topic better understand the level of unsupported bias towards Israel, and what the real facts are.