Make luring a perm ban offense

I think luring could be considered the same as phishing, cookie stealing, or scamming. "Luring" a victim into a state of trust by talking them into or by other way and killing them is nothing more than a total scam.

Scamming is scamming. One person took goods from another person against their will.

 

Exactly at the end of the day it is scamming. It doesn't matter how you look at it. It is scamming or stealing however you'd like for it to be worded. If everyone is agreeing with this then why not make it a rule?

 

Most lurers have moved on. But yeah luring is shit, should be bannable but theres no way it would actual turn into a bannable offence.

 

Nope!

 

I can see making it a perm ban if they are lured through Sythe, as in your example. But if they're lured in game, it shouldn't be banable here on Sythe.

 

Lure through sythe = bannable
Lure not through sythe =/= bannable

Scam through sythe = bannable
Scam not on sythe = bannable

Why are scamming and luring any different? Someone enlighten me. Both abuse trust and ultimately, are stealing.

 

Exactly, ultimately it amounts to scamming someone. I don't care if there is some kind of sick merit than being more clever than someone else, its still theft.

 

While I don't condone luring, I feel scamming and luring are two different things. Lurers use a game to achieve the items lost by another user. The user has a say in the luring, it's all part of the game. You take that risk by playing the game, and putting trust in the people in the game. If action should be taken about luring, let the game makers take care of it.

And sorry for shitty reply, on phone and cbf typing out more.

 

Point being?

By the same logic; All Sythe.org users have a say in trading on Sythe, it's part of the site. You take the risk of being scammed in joining and posting. You could prevent being scammed by not being stupid and using a credible seller or middleman. If you want action taken, contact Jagex or Paypal.

Befriending or appearing to befriend someone to gain their trust and then stealing from them, is exactly the same thing a scammer does. If someone actively lures on Runescape to make money, would you really feel confident in handing them 100$ just because you're going through Sythe and not Runescape? Do you think their intention to gain from manipulating trust is confined to just Runescape? The majority of the time it isn't.

 

Scenario one: User comes to sythe and puts his trust in a person, he accepts that risk by using a black market community. The person rips off the new user. The scammer is then permanently banned for theft.

Scenario two: User comes online to runescape and puts his trust in a person, he accepts that risk by playing the game. The person rips off the new user. Apparently this is different and an acceptable "part of the game" ?

 

Didn't read the post but I think luring is basically scamming.

 

It's a game mechanic. Jagex agrees. Sythe does not handle in game disputes.

 

Their rules suggest otherwise http://gyazo.com/f9915c2eb7bbc9cc470faa3173fff59c

Not that I care about what Jagex has to say about it, but saying that its an intended part of the game is just silly.

The suggestion wasn't to handle in-game disputes. Sythe doesn't directly handle off-site bans does it? But if you can provide proof that a scam occurred then the person is held responsible.

 

Sythe.org users do have a say in trading on Sythe. They initiate the trade, they involve them self in the trade. And it's common sense to be safe while trading, and to use a credible seller or MM. It's on the user to perform research on the person and use their own judgement to determine whether or not the person will scam them. Same thing with luring in game. If you're asked by Mx799 to join a clan, most people will know he is a well known lurer, and tell him to fuck off. If the user fell for the lure, most people wouldn't really give much sympathy for the victim, simply because the user should have done research on Mx799, and would have discovered he is a well known lurer.

I know that if this was the case, I would feel more confident to hand them $100 because I know action would be taken through Sythe, compared to RS. But I wouldn't just give anyone $100, it goes back to the whole judgement and research point.

It depends on what kind of ripping off happens. If it falls under the ToS of the game rules, then the user should be dealt with accordingly both on site and off site. But if it's not against the rules in the game, why should it be against the rules off site?

 

But we ban on Sythe despite it being, in a nutshell, their own fault. Luring is no different in my mind.

 

I believe luring was considered a grey area in the past. Usually luring took place in the wilderness, it was the most used method on runescape. By entering the wilderness and carrying whatever you have on you, you are basically willing to risk it by entering. Whether the lurer or someone else randomly kills you, you knew the risks when you crossed the ditch or you should (portal lure).

It's hard to argue that someone convinced you to carry all your wealth and enter the wilderness after the game warns/warned you of the risks. Luring is you choosing to do it, you let them kill you.

I don't condone luring but in the end the argument was pretty much a lost cause. Scamming on sythe is basically accepting a deal with someone, the agreement is normally RSGP exchanged for dollars. When it comes to luring, there is no agreement that he wont kill you and there is no trade occurring.

This is the argument I can come up with, Im sure there was a discussion about this around mid 2011 after free trade was released.

 

Really?

If the scam is okay where it takes place its acceptable? Imagine if we used this in all cases, "Its okay on hackforums, why should it be against the rules here?"

Yeah, because lurers never say anything like "Its safe, trust me" or "I'll help you out, trust me..come here."

That's like someone on sythe saying "We didn't explicitly have an agreement that I was going to give your account back after this quest, you knowingly gave me your username and password" lol..

 

Luring isn't as simple as stealing, sometimes it involves just a matter of tricking someone.... Considering their are many lures its not so clear cut... Sometimes the ones where you ask someone to give something to you and you log out, thats considered a lure, and that is also considered a scam, but luring originated from people having 1v1 fights in wilderness and then an entire team would show up, it was considered to be a strategy and more of a tactic as you were out to get the kill by using deception which in battles does occur, so because of its origins people who scam today refer to it as luring and see nothing wrong with it, as you recall i made that same mistake when i was younger..... I would not support the definitions of luring to change to scamming but i would support considering each case individually as their really is a huge difference sometimes... although it does involve the same form of deception one is more strategy based and the other is just plain scamming...


That's just my 2 cents on the matter.

 

Luring isn't scamming, it's a game mechanic.

If I was 1v1ing someone, and then took them to a multi area, and they got hatefucked by my clan, is that luring?

Why should we handle in-game disputes at all... That's a pretty fucking slippery slope. If Sythe is involved in the lure(PM's, threads, etc), go for it, ban them, but if it's not, it's absolutely none of our business.

 

That isn't the type of luring that's being discussed. More tricking a user into losing their items due to a glitch or a clever trick to scam them out of their stuff unwillingly.

Obviously it would be impossible to police in-game interactions, but at least we could make threads about luring here unwelcome. If scamming someone out of gold offsite is against the rules, it should stand to reason that scamming someone someone in the game is as well.