[Sythe] Underage Gambling - Ethically okay for sythe?

Think of the dice function as, for example, the RS gold section - just something which we make available on Sythe for members to use. With this logic we shouldn't let people buy Runescape gold until they're X-age because they can stake with it, lose it etc. - what's the difference?

 

My query is why Sythe, as a site, should remove it.. The Sythe site/forum is in no way condoning gambling with real money, nor encouraging it. The dice on Sythe are a tool for people to use as they see fit, and there is in all honesty no reasonable way to prevent it being used for gambling.

I see there being three options:
- Require ID to use

Dice Roll: 6 of 6

 

I like Richard's point about 18 being an arbitrary age.

I'm 18 right now, and I believe I'm completely capable of making my own life decisions as a "legal adult" in the United States. But honestly, my views about life, my decision making, and my personal tendencies haven't really changed since I was maybe 12, 13 years old, tops. By most older people's standards, I've always been much more mature than my peers have.

The point of this^^ is to say that I'd choose a different arbitrary gambling age if I based it on my own opinion and experiences. I have a lot of self-control when it comes to gambling, and I have since I was much younger, so maybe I could say the gambling age on Sythe should be 13. I'd contend that it's no more arbitrary than 18 because I had the self control you're looking for when I was 13.

TL;DR = I agree with Sythe - why 18? There will always be people under the arbitrary "gambling age" who are plenty mature to control themselves while gambling, and there will also be those who are over the set age who cannot control themselves. Judging the maturity of others is a gray area that makes setting an age relatively pointless.

 

Playing devil's advocate here:

The distinction we ought to make is the distinction between having one's own bank account or using one's parents' account.

18 is not an arbitrary number. In the USA, where I imagine a large part of sythe's users live, anybody under 18 is a minor. What does this mean? Well, for one, it means that they aren't allowed their own independent checking accounts. (They may still have savings accounts, and I do believe that an exception should be made for these users - if one has a job and wishes to gamble with money that they earned, then so be it). So what are we left with? We're left with minors here using their parent's money to gamble. Is this immoral? Of course. One's parents' money is not one's own, and shouldn't be treated as such. Note that once people turn 18, they are no longer minors, and therefore have their own bank accounts and stuff. If they don't then, gambling with their parent's accounts is theft, and we shouldn't really be worrying about that.

Essentially, I'm trying to say that the restriction shouldn't be on age, but on ownership of the money one is gambling with, and there just happens to be a correlation between being 18 and having a bank account.

(Sorry if I made grammatical mistakes and stuff, I jumped around while writing this)

 

My biggest problem is that you care so much about it. What impact does it have on you, personally? If you don't agree with it, don't participate.

Since the definition of the dicing feature on this site is simply a random number generator with the title of "dice," there is nothing to say that it promotes gambling. Maybe it was never made under the intentions of gambling in the first place. Maybe it was added to hold competitions, or even just for kicks.

Not to mention that the legality of what this site may or may not promote is not all according to the law. Any form of RuneScape blackmarket is illegal under RuneScape's Terms. Most MMOs have terms against trading their currency for real money, but we provide a place for that to happen.

Why do you care so much about the legality of a random number generator, but not specific sections that actually do promote something illegal, such as the trade of MMO currency?

Also, sorry if I jumped in on something already happening. I haven't read all the comments, simply replied to OP.

 

Even if we were speaking about Sythe users using others' money to dice, that argument is invalid. There are dozens of other money-related exchanges on Sythe, it is not limited to dicing. Sythe provides users with a place to exchange virtual and non-virtual goods alike for money. There is nothing to say that those transactions aren't being completed with someone's money that isn't their own.

Sythe users can also donate to Sythe. Are we going to stop accepting donations now because there is a possibility that Sythe users are using their parents money, and that concept is ethically/morally wrong? I don't think so.

 

The concept of 18 being the age where one stops being a minor is, I agree, completely arbitrary.

My point is that currently, 18 is the age most countries have chosen. We aren't arguing whether it makes sense that it is 18... so I'm arguing that the fact that most people have bank accounts at 18 creates a(n imperfect) heuristic for figuring out who has their own bank account at 18.

I was debating whether we should put an age limit on the dicing forum, and I've made an argument as to why using a bank account that is not yours is generally immoral. (as for your example, sure, its obviously not always the case, and there are exceptions). From there I've made a (somewhat shaky) argument as to why being 18 means you're less likely to be using someone else's bank account. So I've connected them to 'being 18 means you're less likely to be doing something immoral'.

 

As I said, not everybody is committing fraud and theft. But I'm sure that a small percentage of minors are using paypals and bank accounts without telling their parents that they are using them to gamble. A paypal transaction does not signify gambling, so parents could be lost for quite a while before they catch on.

As I said earlier though, I'm playing devil's advocate.

 

I'm waiting for the charge backs on those who are going to claim their under-age child was on their paypal gambling which wasn't authorised nor should the site have allowed them to do so (not that this will have any legal base after my extensive discussion with richard, but I still think it will be made)

 

That really has no relevance. Anybody can chargback at any time for anything. The reason for the chargeback doesn't pertain to underage gambling. That same person could buy RuneScape GP and charge it back.

 

Waiting for Nikors to do that considering he is 15 and claims to have consent for his paypal. I think the gambling issue will be discussed further if a complaint is made, and an unauthorised charge back for purchasing an Item can be disputed but for underage gambling might have some follow ups.

 

ThePrestigedMuzza, did you forget about staking in runescape? That's a pretty popular form of gambling wouldn't you agree? Or is that different because it's in a video game?

 

Strawman, strawman, strawman But I never said we should ban dicing, I just argued we should restrict it.

I don't really want to hijack this thread, but if you wish the debate government elsewhere, I'd be willing to do that.

 

Considering you aren't meant to be spending real life money on RSGP I would argue its different as you aren't gambling anything tangible, however the squeal of fortune on the other hand is virtual slots

 

Here, here!

We should also ban alcohol because some people drive drunk.

TBH this is the same logic the gov will use to ban stuff like bitcoin: terrorists may use it, so lets ban it (in other words, jail or shoot anyone who uses it).