Question for Sythe in Regards to Stolen Goods

I feel like the fine line should be down to the final staff decision, but you also have to think about, will somebody come straight out and tell somebody else that they scammed or did som it ething along the lines of scamming when they are trying to sell the gold? Also, I feel it depends on how the gold was gotten, was it glitched like the crucible glitch where the money can easily be tracked back to the dupers and all the members involved and even buying the gold banned, or is it some glitch that has a very rare chance of a repercussion. I personally believe as long as the scamming wasn't done outside of rs it should be let go.

 

It's been debated so many times. I believe finally decided on what you have said. Not entirely sure though.

 

Good. I've always been opposed to punishing people for what is allowed to be done in game.

 

bump???

 

I really don't remember. I think it was because he lied more than anything.

 

Justundude repeatedly lied to both his buyers and staff members.
He was selling duped gold, which had a high risk of being lost, and lied to everyone.

 

Yes I think we ALL know that was what ultimately led to his ban...He probably wouldn't have lied about it if he hadn't been banned in the first place and knew he was never allowed back.

>mfw

Edit:

Fraud??????? Either I'm totally stupid or now you just contradicted yourself.

 

A liar, a fraud--tomatoe, tomato. The point is that he was banned in the first place for selling duped gold.

And now you're just going completely off in a tangent, thus I rest my case here. And what does murder, killing someone, have anything to do with this lol?

 

I do not get why people are hell bent on driving the guy mad.

about things that are common sense the guy is clearly smart i do not want to write a book to you stating the obvious.

He has built this website/forum that we all enjoy.

He has clearly stated his wishes on the matter and even taken the time to respond to nonsense posts and still you go on and on and on.

 

Thank you for your detailed response. I am still a bit iffy on the moral side of cheating, regarding comparative advantage with other players and the axiom "do onto others as you will have them do onto you", but honestly, that is neither here nor there in this debate over Viou's ban. I am also iffy on the legality of account recovery (While I believe it should definitely be a bannable offense in this community, I do not consider it, legally, fraud, and could refute your argument by (what I considered) improper analogy. I will not pursue debate however, as it is not critical to my two main objections of Viou's ban and I'm trying to limit pissing people off.)

I do now believe that knowingly trading gold that was stolen is not virtuous. I still am uneasy about Viou's permanent ban for two reasons.
1. If other gold sellers were doing the same thing (as R2P and Grave were shown in their argument to have had dubious dealings), then only banning Viou because he was discovered first, and/or more frank about it, is unjust.
2. Even though his actions were unethical, the rules were not fully codified regarding this issue, so a permanent ban is harsh. To strengthen my argument, I attempted to show that some other activities on this site can also be considered unethical but within site regulations. You are firmly convicted that they are not unethical, so I wont further anger you/take up your time arguing the point. Anyway, even without that point, my original position is still sounds: Viou did not explicitly break any Sythe.org rules.

I believe I am done discussing this issue. I'm sorry if I pissed anyone off. I thought Viou wasn't getting his fair shake so I decided to provide the best defense possible as he has been a good community member, even if I didn't necessarily believe in some points I made.

 

I thought I'd just let you know that I followed through with the advice you gave me:

http://puu.sh/2aaNf

http://puu.sh/2aaQG

http://puu.sh/2aaUI

http://puu.sh/2aaWb

http://puu.sh/2aaKq
http://puu.sh/2aaMc

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL combo breaker
how can we be sure we're purchasing stolen gold or not ?
//Nevermind, that's the answer on my question, I should read it before:

 

An interesting question I'd like to raise: If we're treating gold as something that can be stolen and treated as a stolen good, would someone have to return it under the same principle, if proof surfaces that it is indeed stolen? I already know the answer, but I'm a little high right now and that just mindfucked me.

 

Just un didn't lie lol he just chose not to tell people which dupe he used, people asked him if he used the cruciable dupe and he said no because he didn't. Just un told me it was duped when I asked him before buying but he refused to tell me it was from a duelling dupe. He eventually got twc'd for selling duped gold and then banned for not saying where his gold came from. Also the crucible duped gold was mostly removed through account bans and wipes but the gold just un, roy and another guy duped were never removed. Just un was twc'd for lying about where his gold came from and permed by karl for a pm he sent him.

The basis for Just un's ban started with http://sythe.org/11310695-post48.html a person who bought off multiple people which used the crucible dupe and then bought more gold off just un http://www.sythe.org/11319998-post2.html 2 days later.

I'm fairly sure the large sellers/ buyers didn't warn their buyers of where their gold came from considering most had either bought of just un and roy or matkias and his partner.

Matkias had an early start and had already moved 250bil to some of the biggest gold buyers/ sellers here before just un and roy caught on.

Either way assume I bought off someone who exploited an in game mechanic but it could put users at risk similar to just un would the same penalty be upheld if I were to resell that lets say duped gold and was fully aware of where it came from but chose not to tell my buyers.